[Non-included nation] BELGIUM

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Partibrejker
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Re: [Non-included nation] BELGIUM

Postby Partibrejker » Fri 3 Mar 2017 21:54

Benelux coalition could be a nice idea, maybe even acting as a solo "nation".
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Re: [Non-included nation] BELGIUM

Postby FrangibleCover » Fri 3 Mar 2017 23:27

Partibrejker wrote:Benelux coalition could be a nice idea, maybe even acting as a solo "nation".

There's enough interesting stuff in Belgium and the Netherlands and enough equipment differentiation that it's going to be hard to push all that stuff into a single nation. And the voice acting would get weird. On the other hand Luxembourgers speak French, German and a language that's like German shading into Dutch, like parts of Belgium, and Luxembourg is so insignificant militarily that I think it's okay to just fold it in to give Belgium a TOW-2 Humvee. I'll do a separate list if multiple Luxembourger forum members complain :D.

Also, if we do a single nation BeNeLux how in the name of all that is holy are we going to sort out the people that bought the Netherlands already? Do they get Belgium for free? You'll make no money. Do they have to pay to get BeNeLux? That's theft. Do we keep a separate Netherlands outside of BeNeLux? That's weird and confusing and you have to pay for some units twice. It's okay as a coalition because we'll do a BeNeLux coalition for people who have both DLCs and Dutch-German and Anglo-Belgian Corps (Franco-Belgian Corps is also an option) for people who own one but not the other. Sneaky trick: BeNeLux works better than either of the Corps coalitions :lol: .
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Re: [Non-included nation] BELGIUM

Postby ST21 » Sat 4 Mar 2017 19:13

Partibrejker wrote:Benelux coalition could be a nice idea, maybe even acting as a solo "nation".


Dude, we seceded from those pesky Dutchies for a reason. No way in hell you are gonna put us together as a joint "nation" unless you want to see a lot of fratricide between Dutch and Belgian units. :lol:

Joking aside, FrangibleCover said it all. Belgium has more than enough stuff to stand on its own two feet as a standalone nation. No need to be joined with NL. I wouldnt mind a BeNeLux coalition however.

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Re: [Non-included nation] BELGIUM

Postby ST21 » Sat 4 Mar 2017 19:25

Maybe another loadout option for the Block 15OCU ATGM. Back in 1991-92, SABCA tested the AS.30L on a loaned Belgian AF F-16A Block 15OCU. Magic II AAMs were tested as well. Tests (including firings) were successful and both missiles were qualified on the F-16.

AS.30L-armed Belgian F-16A Block 15OCU (temporarily devoid of any markings since it was a company test)
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Same aircraft with R.550 Magic II
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Image

Note that Belgium didnt procure those French missiles at the end of the day and instead went for AIM-9M and AGM-65G but it was at least considered. 2x AS.30L and 4x R.550 Magic II could be an interesting loadout for the prototype Belgian F-16. It would sure set it apart from the other ATGM F-16s. :idea:
Last edited by ST21 on Mon 6 Mar 2017 02:00, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [Non-included nation] BELGIUM

Postby HrcAk47 » Sat 4 Mar 2017 19:30

Very nice thread, Belgium is surely one of the most serious BLUFOR candidates.

Luxembourg could be represented by a "few" units that become selectable once "Benelux" coalition deck is selected.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: [Non-included nation] BELGIUM

Postby Xeno426 » Sat 4 Mar 2017 20:03

ST21 wrote:Dude, we seceded from those pesky Dutchies for a reason. No way in hell you are gonna put us together as a joint "nation" unless you want to see a lot of fratricide between Dutch and Belgian units. :lol:

Pff, I still modify Hearts of Iron to give Netherlands territorial claims on Belgium. :D
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CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

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Re: [Non-included nation] BELGIUM

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 4 Mar 2017 20:31

ST21 wrote:Maybe another loadout option for the Block 15OCU ATGM. Back in 1991-92, SABCA tested the AS.30L on a loaned Belgian AF F-16A Block15OCU. Magic II AAMs were tested as well. Tests (including firings) were successful and both missiles were qualified on the F-16. Note that Belgium didnt procure those French missiles at the end of the day and instead went for AIM-9M and AGM-65G but it was a least considered. 2x AS.30L and 4x R.550 Magic II could be an interesting loadout for the prototype Belgian F-16. It would sure set it apart from the other ATGM F-16s. :idea:

It is different from the current F-16s but it's not different from this one:
Image
viewtopic.php?f=104&t=59398
Pakistan had the AS.30L and Magic IIs on its F-16s by the late 1980s so I'd prefer to reserve the loadout for them. Note that I've specified the Maverick G, which would actually make the aircraft quite a lot more like the F/A-18C Hornet than any of the current ATGM F-16s. It's an interesting piece though, I'd certainly be considering the Magics for flavour if the AIM-9M hadn't been delivered.

You've not actually said anything about it but are you okay with the infantry unit names? They're really pretty difficult to pick if you're not immersed in the country culturally.

HrcAk47 wrote:Very nice thread, Belgium is surely one of the most serious BLUFOR candidates.

Luxembourg could be represented by a "few" units that become selectable once "Benelux" coalition deck is selected.

I definitely get your idea of Luxembourg being a 'hidden' nation that only becomes available when you pick the coalition and I admit that in 99% of games it's not going to matter at all because you'll just be playing BeNeLux anyway. However, Luxembourg has traditionally cooperated very closely with Belgium, if Belgium were to deploy a force to a big international rumble like Wargame represents I think we'd see a Luxembourger contingent hung on their coat tails.

Also, Luxembourg provide very little in real terms. The TOW-2 Humvee is nice but ATGM jeeps are generally in a poor spot right now, the AUG shock recon are fine but could just as well be a Belgian unit with the FNC M3 Carbine. They're basically just a light dusting of flavour. And if we go for the sales model I came up with with the individual coalitions then you're only going to get Luxembourg when you buy Belgium and the Netherlands.

Xeno426 wrote:
ST21 wrote:Dude, we seceded from those pesky Dutchies for a reason. No way in hell you are gonna put us together as a joint "nation" unless you want to see a lot of fratricide between Dutch and Belgian units. :lol:

Pff, I still modify Hearts of Iron to give Netherlands territorial claims on Belgium. :D

The Netherlands don't need Belgium, it has Belgian people in it doing strange things like speaking French and putting mayonnaise on their chips. They're raising Doggerland and then invading Norfolk, where everyone speaks the same language as them: British English :P .
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Re: [Non-included nation] BELGIUM

Postby HrcAk47 » Sat 4 Mar 2017 23:37

"Hidden nations that appear in coalition" was my go-to solution for Hungary (up until recently), as it is a prime example of a nation that can't be distinguished on its own in the current WRD model.

However, the new, divisional system for SD is rather interesting, as it offers a lot of potential even for smaller nations. Or at least, it seems to me. Remains to be seen.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: [Non-included nation] BELGIUM

Postby Partibrejker » Sun 5 Mar 2017 17:28

ST21 wrote:
Partibrejker wrote:Benelux coalition could be a nice idea, maybe even acting as a solo "nation".


Dude, we seceded from those pesky Dutchies for a reason. No way in hell you are gonna put us together as a joint "nation" unless you want to see a lot of fratricide between Dutch and Belgian units. :lol:

Joking aside, FrangibleCover said it all. Belgium has more than enough stuff to stand on its own two feet as a standalone nation. No need to be joined with NL. I wouldnt mind a BeNeLux coalition however.



Hey if Yugos could pull it off, you can also xD

Kidding,
Belgium would be nice for me, can you just tell me on which page is the proposed full listing and FC making that statement, I would like to know
FrangibleCover wrote: nudging you just to tell me where was that statment that I would like to read (sorry for nudge I am really short on time)
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Re: [Non-included nation] BELGIUM

Postby Partibrejker » Sun 5 Mar 2017 17:29

HrcAk47 wrote:"Hidden nations that appear in coalition" was my go-to solution for Hungary (up until recently), as it is a prime example of a nation that can't be distinguished on its own in the current WRD model.

However, the new, divisional system for SD is rather interesting, as it offers a lot of potential even for smaller nations. Or at least, it seems to me. Remains to be seen.



no. I want my pick and mix on the table! :lol: :P
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