#MakeAmericaGreatAgain

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Markenzwieback
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Re: #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

Postby Markenzwieback » Fri 14 Jul 2017 00:35

Shrike wrote:
Spoiler : :
I say its part of a bigger issue. The concept of innocent until proven guilty has vanished from both the people's mindset and the media's and I say this as a criminal justice major.

The way news agencies report crimes these days they say it like the person being accused did it and in some cases there is beyond a reasonable doubt someone actually committed the crime. However when you put someone's picture up on tv, their mugshot, and say what they might have done plants a bias in jury's mind. This combined with unspoken biases towards certain sexes and genders as well as preconceived ideas and biases acquired from life expirences tends to make a mess of things.

I'm glad forensic evidence has come a long way and has helped proved many people's innocence and get them off death row. Everyone injustice and innocent persecuted/executed is a blight on our system and we need to change that.

Abolish the death penalty since its use as a deterrent doesn't work. Change the prison system from punitive to a reform based system and include programs to reintroduce people back into society and find work. Hide the identity of the accused and the victim until after the court case. Introduce rules and guidelines in the court system that eliminate sex/gender bias from the system and encourage fair treatment and sentences for everyone.

This sounds awfully European. You a dirty socialist? :lol: But jokes aside, this has been my impression of the US justice from the limited information you can get on the other side of the big pond.

What worries me are the slightly increasing cases of people undermining the principle of innocent until proven guilty over here too. Either being the Kachelmann rape case, where one of the leading second-wave feminists in Germany was sentenced for spreading false information, or more recently the Lohfink-case. Said model first claimed to be raped and later was sentenced for false testimony. During the process, our family minister actively sided with one party before the hearings were over and the ministry of justice adapted a new sexual assault law citing as reasoning a sexual assault case that collapsed mid-way ...
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Re: #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

Postby Fade2Gray » Fri 14 Jul 2017 01:39

Shrike wrote:
Spoiler : :
Cheesehead wrote:Eh, to a degree the whole rape issue is a bit bias against men. Even a false accusation is enough to derail someone's career and often the women don't get nearly the same repercussions for falsifying a report compared to what happens to the dude in that case. Might be just a military/AF thing since for the longest time they hammered home the point of the women always being in the right regardless of the circumstance.

I say its part of a bigger issue. The concept of innocent until proven guilty has vanished from both the people's mindset and the media's and I say this as a criminal justice major.

The way news agencies report crimes these days they say it like the person being accused did it and in some cases there is beyond a reasonable doubt someone actually committed the crime. However when you put someone's picture up on tv, their mugshot, and say what they might have done plants a bias in jury's mind. This combined with unspoken biases towards certain sexes and genders as well as preconceived ideas and biases acquired from life expirences tends to make a mess of things.

I'm glad forensic evidence has come a long way and has helped proved many people's innocence and get them off death row. Everyone injustice and innocent persecuted/executed is a blight on our system and we need to change that.

Abolish the death penalty since its use as a deterrent doesn't work. Change the prison system from punitive to a reform based system and include programs to reintroduce people back into society and find work. Hide the identity of the accused and the victim until after the court case. Introduce rules and guidelines in the court system that eliminate sex/gender bias from the system and encourage fair treatment and sentences for everyone.

Damn, Shrike stole a lot of what I'm going to say on this. I fully agree, it is more of a problem with the criminal justice system being flawed and media being too quick to make some ratings.

Also, personally? I kinda put this on the back burner because you vastly reduce your chances of being hit with this by being very careful about who you get involved with. Cutting out drama queens and those with high cases of shenanigans will save you so much trouble in the long run, but sadly people throw common sense out the window in the case of infatuationlove. After sitting in on a court marshal (I know, it's martial, but I always make that typo for some reason) where someone got accused of rape by someone who I told him was a total nutter? I tend to not have much sympathy for the victims of that. It's a big reason of why I keep my circle of friends small, all of them are pretty level headed and none of them are prone causing shenanigans of that magnitude.

Not really very "PC" but honestly if you mess around with crazy, well... you pay the price for it somehow. As many people as I've seen go through hell because they got involved with a nutter I can't fathom why they keep making that mistake over and over again.

"But if you are out drinking..."

well don't get stupid drunk so much then. :roll:

Markenzwieback wrote:What worries me are the slightly increasing cases of people undermining the principle of innocent until proven guilty over here too. Either being the Kachelmann rape case, where one of the leading second-wave feminists in Germany was sentenced for spreading false information, or more recently the Lohfink-case. Said model first claimed to be raped and later was sentenced for false testimony. During the process, our family minister actively sided with one party before the hearings were over and the ministry of justice adapted a new sexual assault law citing as reasoning a sexual assault case that collapsed mid-way ...

Rape is one of those hugely charged things that has all sorts of baggage. It's never going to be a simple fix, but making sure that people who bring false charges forward are punished is a good start. I've sat in on a trail where a woman who accused a soldier of rape had her best friend get up and tell everyone that the accuser had been planning all week that she wanted to get laid that weekend. All sorts of details about how she was talking about how hot she thought the soldier was, what she's heard about him and his apparent endowments, all sorts of wonderful details. After the charges were thrown out? The accuser wasn't punished at all. Not even so much as a slap on the wrist or anything. Could have at least called her a cheater to her face but whatever.

Of course, what the husband of said wife did (he was deployed at the time, but managed to get emergency leave to be there to support her during the mess) after it ended was the stuff of some pretty heavy gossip for months...
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another505
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Re: #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

Postby another505 » Fri 14 Jul 2017 05:20


COLLAGE?

jk
I view them a bit negatively too... I think the hype of university(cause I'm CANADIAN) is too high, seems a lot of ppl get in there not out of their free will, with no dreams, motivation or headings but simply the world and parents told them so. They graduate with a degree that they don't care, and get in unrelated jobs for the rest of their life. The problem is the huge hype, and social stigma especially among asian canadians not to have an University degree, professors half-assing. I don't do half of my English readings since there are just too many, and there are unceasing tedious essays about them where I get Bs without trying or learning anything new, I just have to BS back what the prof told me in class, how much critical thinking is in there? (I mean, I'm in the top university of Canada, 22 in the world. And I don't think I am particularly smart, I just they think the administration and profs don't give a much of damn other than trying to be political correct all the time, get paid, get their research grant and so on)

University to me is like a corporation with friendly faces like APPLE and so on, telling how good and essential in society so they get more money. Now, its good for ppl who actually wants to do something that needs it. But i think most people are sufficient with a college degree(Canadian term) since they don't care about what their degrees are anyways, heck, they get better pay as an electrician or plumber than most business or psychology graduates will get.
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Re: #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

Postby Fade2Gray » Fri 14 Jul 2017 08:20


I already posted about this on reddit. I remember a decade+ ago listening to fellow soldiers who had gone to college bitch about how "Communist" it was. The right wing hate for universities has been building for awhile, that suddenly there's all this news about it strikes me as being a bit slow on the uptake.

edit: Oh for the love of...

Peter W. Smith, GOP operative who sought Clinton's emails from Russian hackers, committed suicide, records show
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

In the note recovered by police, Smith apologized to authorities and said that "NO FOUL PLAY WHATSOEVER" was involved in his death. He wrote that he was taking his own life because of a "RECENT BAD TURN IN HEALTH SINCE JANUARY, 2017" and timing related "TO LIFE INSURANCE OF $5 MILLION EXPIRING."


This is so 100% conspiracy fuel for the alt-right is seems. Yes, the Dems are a ruthless murder machine, they are going to kill all of you! DUN DUN DUN!
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Shrike
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Re: #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

Postby Shrike » Fri 14 Jul 2017 09:06

another505 wrote:

COLLAGE?

jk
I view them a bit negatively too... I think the hype of university(cause I'm CANADIAN) is too high, seems a lot of ppl get in there not out of their free will, with no dreams, motivation or headings but simply the world and parents told them so. They graduate with a degree that they don't care, and get in unrelated jobs for the rest of their life. The problem is the huge hype, and social stigma especially among asian canadians not to have an University degree, professors half-assing. I don't do half of my English readings since there are just too many, and there are unceasing tedious essays about them where I get Bs without trying or learning anything new, I just have to BS back what the prof told me in class, how much critical thinking is in there? (I mean, I'm in the top university of Canada, 22 in the world. And I don't think I am particularly smart, I just they think the administration and profs don't give a much of damn other than trying to be political correct all the time, get paid, get their research grant and so on)

University to me is like a corporation with friendly faces like APPLE and so on, telling how good and essential in society so they get more money. Now, its good for ppl who actually wants to do something that needs it. But i think most people are sufficient with a college degree(Canadian term) since they don't care about what their degrees are anyways, heck, they get better pay as an electrician or plumber than most business or psychology graduates will get.

I feel sort of the same way. It's bureaucratic and feels like a waste of time and money with most of it being wasted on general ed. I don't mind math and English, but the music and art appreciation stuff could be omitted. I don't mind history and earth science either, but stuff like psychology, art history, intro to world music was a waste of time. Transferring from community college to a four year has also been a source of frustration in my life as well.

I'm also starting to have my doubts about it. Not because of the left wing bias, but other factors. In recent years we have seen more and more automation in the work place. We are already looking at delivery drones and automated trucks and trains, seems like there wont be anything left other than lawyer, politician, programmer, engineer, scientist, and artist as professions. The reasons to work just seem to be fewer and fewer. Cant work, cant make money, and a people insist on robots taking jobs because they are cheaper to run. Pretty sure that's how Marx said the rich would be defeated, basically there would be no reason to keep producing goods and machines because there would be no one left to work to earn money to buy things that the rich produced.

I wouldn't mind going a bit longer if it was just a for fun thing. Like to learn about military history of something, but a lot of those types of programs have been cut. Yet you still hear about people going to school and getting a degree and not being able to find work. I feel like part of the issue for my school at is the high number of people becoming psychology majors with hopes of becoming something. Phycology seems like a niche field to me that only a few people can make a career out of, yet a ton of people take a psych class and chose to make it their major.

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Re: #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

Postby Fade2Gray » Fri 14 Jul 2017 10:59

Shrike wrote:I wouldn't mind going a bit longer if it was just a for fun thing. Like to learn about military history of something, but a lot of those types of programs have been cut. Yet you still hear about people going to school and getting a degree and not being able to find work. I feel like part of the issue for my school at is the high number of people becoming psychology majors with hopes of becoming something. Phycology seems like a niche field to me that only a few people can make a career out of, yet a ton of people take a psych class and chose to make it their major.

Remember when every gal and her dog wanted to be a marine biologist?
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Re: #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Fri 14 Jul 2017 15:07

Shrike wrote:and money with most of it being wasted on general ed. I don't mind math and English, but the music and art appreciation stuff could be omitted.


Funny thing is, math and English general are considered largely a waste of time and money here.
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Re: #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

Postby Killertomato » Fri 14 Jul 2017 17:37

Fade2Gray wrote:
This is so 100% conspiracy fuel for the alt-right is seems. Yes, the Dems are a ruthless murder machine, they are going to kill all of you! DUN DUN DUN!


Not seeing it. The guy was on record saying that Russian hackers had Clinton's emails- they'd want him alive.
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Re: #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

Postby Admiral Piett » Fri 14 Jul 2017 20:34

The problem with post secondary education is that people think simply attending one actually gives you a post secondary education, as if the piece of paper has some kind of inherent ability to make you capable of critical thinking and the numerous other skills you can learn at a university or college. You get as much out of post secondary education as you put in. If you are a "Cs get degrees, I just want my piece of paper before getting a job as a cubicle drone" you likely haven't really got that much out of it. Never mind separate issues like grade inflation and the growing perception among people that because they are paying to go to a university, they deserve to get the piece of paper they want. Universities tend to feed into that too by treating students as if they are customers.

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