New Nation: Iran

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HrcAk47
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Re: New Nation: Iran

Postby HrcAk47 » Mon 29 Aug 2016 15:35

Without any racism implied, if Saudis and the rest are added, I think all of their units should be hard capped to trained.

>be Saudi
>invade one of the poorest and weakest countries in the world, Yemen
>lose militarily and lose territory to Yemen

Otherwise, just give the mixed Blufor deck the Saudi flag.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: New Nation: Iran

Postby steppewolf » Mon 29 Aug 2016 15:41

HrcAk47 wrote:Without any racism implied, if Saudis and the rest are added, I think all of their units should be hard capped to trained.

>be Saudi
>invade one of the poorest and weakest countries in the world, Yemen
>lose militarily and lose territory to Yemen

Otherwise, just give the mixed Blufor deck the Saudi flag.


Indeed:



If Syria, Egypt could make sense in a Cold War setup (albeit not as much as other communist countries e.g. Romania, Bulgaria), I don't see how Saudi Arabia and Iran would fit in; the first it's just a collection of Western designs with the most sophisticated ones sometimes manned by Western mercenaries (especially pilots), no real doctrine or a military conflict to be directly involved in while Iran is quite poor in Cold War time frame due to isolation.

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Re: New Nation: Iran

Postby HrcAk47 » Mon 29 Aug 2016 15:51

But yes, I believe Southern Pact and Italy (countries with indigenous designs) would most definitely be more interesting in the Wargame context.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: New Nation: Iran

Postby steppewolf » Mon 29 Aug 2016 16:18

Of course, much more interesting, however I feel there will also be a vote for next DLC and we may get strange results due to uninformed people; You observed how many want WW2 Wargame... :|

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Killertomato
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Re: New Nation: Iran

Postby Killertomato » Mon 29 Aug 2016 16:23

HrcAk47 wrote:Without any racism implied, if Saudis and the rest are added, I think all of their units should be hard capped to trained.

>be Saudi
>invade one of the poorest and weakest countries in the world, Yemen
>lose militarily and lose territory to Yemen

Otherwise, just give the mixed Blufor deck the Saudi flag.


The problem with Saudi is leadership, that's not a problem in wargame cause that leadership is you!

A Saudi-Kuwaiti nation is surprisingly decent though an odd mix of east and west gear. Kuwait can have smerch as a prototype even...
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

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HrcAk47
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Re: New Nation: Iran

Postby HrcAk47 » Mon 29 Aug 2016 16:39

Killertomato wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:Without any racism implied, if Saudis and the rest are added, I think all of their units should be hard capped to trained.

>be Saudi
>invade one of the poorest and weakest countries in the world, Yemen
>lose militarily and lose territory to Yemen

Otherwise, just give the mixed Blufor deck the Saudi flag.


The problem with Saudi is leadership, that's not a problem in wargame cause that leadership is you!

A Saudi-Kuwaiti nation is surprisingly decent though an odd mix of east and west gear. Kuwait can have smerch as a prototype even...


Not really.

Their infantry is made up by even illiterate peasants/mercenaries who are expected to give their lives for 200 bucks per month. Yeah, nah.

Particularly Kuwait. When Yugoslavia delivered them M-84AB tanks, first batch had markings in Arabic. Didnt matter much, later batches were in English, nobody cared. Training programs organized by our staff were a massive flop. How do you teach the illiterate 6th son of a Bangladeshi goat herder what is a FCS?
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

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Re: New Nation: Iran

Postby steppewolf » Mon 29 Aug 2016 16:47

Killertomato wrote:The problem with Saudi is leadership, that's not a problem in wargame cause that leadership is you!

A Saudi-Kuwaiti nation is surprisingly decent though an odd mix of east and west gear. Kuwait can have smerch as a prototype even...

The real problem is not the equipment which they had but how they used it; it's basically a salad, nothing else. From Arabic nations there are others better suited.

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Re: New Nation: Iran

Postby Mike » Mon 29 Aug 2016 16:57

Iraqi and Israeli coalition: Deal with the Devil
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Re: New Nation: Iran

Postby 47andrej » Mon 29 Aug 2016 19:09

Article on helicopter combat in Iran-Iraq war
Although the Hind was faster and tougher, the Cobra was more agile. Soviet evaluations had demonstrated that in a contest between two helicopters the one that could turn more tightly was likely to win.

According to a story, the Cobra's advantage in maneuverability over the Hind had been demonstrated in the early 1980s. A Soviet Hind based in East Germany was flying along the border with West Germany, playing "cat" to a US Army Cobra flying on the other side of the border in the role of "mouse". The Cobra pilot was a "real pro", and the Hind pilot lost control trying to follow his maneuvers. The Soviet gunship went into the ground, killing its crew.

This "kill" could more be chalked up to the Soviet pilot's fatal stupidity than to the American pilot's skill, and in fact the Iraqis demonstrated that the contest between Hind and Cobra was far from one-sided.

It might not have seemed so at first. In November 1980, not long after the beginning of the war with Iraq's invasion of Iran on 22 September 1980, two Iranian SeaCobras crept up on two Hinds and hit them with TOW wired-guided antitank missiles. One Hind went down immediately, the other was badly damaged and crashed before reaching base. The Iranians pulled off a repeat performance on 24 April 1981, destroying two Hinds without loss to themselves.

Then the Iraqis hit back, claiming the destruction of a SeaCobra on 14 September 1983; three SeaCobras on 5 February 1984; and three more on 25 February 1984. Things went quiet for a time, and then on 13 February 1986 each side lost a gunship. A few days later, on 16 February, a Hind shot down a SeaCobra, with a SeaCobra claiming a Hind in return on 18 February. The last engagement between the two types was on 22 May 1986, when the Hinds shot down a SeaCobra.

The score in the end was 10 kills on SeaCobras and 6 kills on Hinds. The relatively small numbers and the inevitable disputes over actual kill numbers makes it unclear if one gunship had a real technical superiority over the other. It appears that the outcome of the fights was dependent more on the tactical situation and pilot skill than the inherent merits of each machine.

Iraqi Hinds also claimed a total of 43 kills against other Iranian helicopters, such as Agusta-Bell Hueys. One Hind even shot down an Iranian McDonnell F-4D Phantom jet fighter on 26 October 1982, though different sources give conflicting details of the incident.

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Killertomato
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Re: New Nation: Iran

Postby Killertomato » Mon 29 Aug 2016 19:18

HrcAk47 wrote:
Not really.

Their infantry is made up by even illiterate peasants/mercenaries who are expected to give their lives for 200 bucks per month. Yeah, nah.

Particularly Kuwait. When Yugoslavia delivered them M-84AB tanks, first batch had markings in Arabic. Didnt matter much, later batches were in English, nobody cared. Training programs organized by our staff were a massive flop. How do you teach the illiterate 6th son of a Bangladeshi goat herder what is a FCS?


These things aren't relevant in wargame. We always assume all the ground troops know what they're doing.

steppewolf wrote:From Arabic nations there are others better suited.


Like what? I'm dead serious right now. Training levels IRL are 100% irrelevant.

Saudi/Kuwait brings M1A2 as a prototype (sale in 1989, actual delivery in 1993), Smerch as a prototype (1995), AuF1, Desert Warrior IFV, lots of TOW-2, F-15s, Shahine/Crotale...

I'll actually make a list.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

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