World news thread

User avatar
Xeno426
Carbon 13
Posts: 11864
Joined: Tue 13 Mar 2012 21:27
Location: Acheron, Hadley's Hope
Contact:

Re: World news thread

Postby Xeno426 » Tue 11 Jul 2017 16:46

The fear of communism is also what helped push fascists into power in Germany. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They're both shitty systems.
Image
CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

User avatar
Doinize
Lieutenant
Posts: 1243
Joined: Tue 30 Jul 2013 13:14
Contact:

Re: World news thread

Postby Doinize » Tue 11 Jul 2017 20:27

Markenzwieback wrote:
Doinize wrote:Communism has been antifascist since fascism became a thing...and even before they called it that...
Antifascism has been a communist position since at least 1922, more 1918 though, you cant really seperate those...

Ah, right. So Kurt Schumacher didn't have Antifascist views/wasn't an Antifascists while being a Social democrat (or should I rather use the term Sozialfaschist?). Shame he also had a pretty passionate disgust for the German communists.

No thats not what i said, i didnt say communists are the only antifascists. (Although they were kinda the only ones to get shit done...)
I meant that seperating communism and antifascism is kinda dumb, as the latter is a important part of the former. If you call communists fascists you are in fact calling antifascists fascists. Which is kinda dumb as fuck...
Sure the SPD had antifascists views and actions.
From the Party that brought you such hits as "Sending the Freikorps seem like a good idea" their new song "whoops that kinda backfired"
Image

User avatar
Shrike
Lieutenant General
Posts: 4297
Joined: Sun 22 Sep 2013 04:30
Location: Central California, US
Contact:

Re: World news thread

Postby Shrike » Tue 11 Jul 2017 20:54

Xeno426 wrote:The fear of communism is also what helped push fascists into power in Germany. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They're both shitty systems.

Agreed. I never understood why people try to counter extreme ideologies by embracing its opposing ideology. The Alt right is always going on about how communism and colored people are trying to destroy their beloved western values, and some how by embracing fascism or some form of authoritarianism they will some how save themselves. Same can be said for Black Bloc and ANTIFA who chose to embrace some form of extremism to counter extremism.

Doinize wrote:No thats not what i said, i didnt say communists are the only antifascists.

What about neo-liberals?

User avatar
Markenzwieback
Lieutenant
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue 27 Oct 2015 17:06
Contact:

Re: World news thread

Postby Markenzwieback » Tue 11 Jul 2017 23:49

Doinize wrote:Sure the SPD had antifascists views and actions.
From the Party that brought you such hits as "Sending the Freikorps seem like a good idea" their new song "whoops that kinda backfired"

Defending the first democracy on German soil against a communist takeover left Social democrats no other choice but to resort to Freikorps.

But hey, the German communist party, impersonated angles of righteousness themselves , didn't directly cooperate with Nazis (yes, NSDAP) just two days before Reichstag elections in 1932. Nooooo, what am I thinking about...of course they were antifascists.
Courtesy to a discussion of the upcoming DLC for SD44. Sufficient to say, one of my
mates is very happy about the new Allied divisions. I totally don't get why... :roll:

Image
Spoiler : :
Image

User avatar
Xeno426
Carbon 13
Posts: 11864
Joined: Tue 13 Mar 2012 21:27
Location: Acheron, Hadley's Hope
Contact:

Re: World news thread

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 12 Jul 2017 01:59

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-repub ... rder-wall/
No, no, the CDC doesn't need money. Who needs to worry about disease in America? That's what insurance is for. Funding for basic research? Pff, the US is already on top, we don't need to spend more money to stay there. And really, schools have become too bloated already.
Image
CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

User avatar
Doinize
Lieutenant
Posts: 1243
Joined: Tue 30 Jul 2013 13:14
Contact:

Re: World news thread

Postby Doinize » Wed 12 Jul 2017 15:44

Markenzwieback wrote:didn't directly cooperate with Nazis (yes, NSDAP) just two days before Reichstag elections in 1932.

Are you referring to the BVG strike that was independantly supported by both the KPD and NSDAP? Because calling that cooperation is huge ass strech...

Nooooo, what am I thinking about...of course they were antifascists.

Are you saying the KPD wasnt antifascists? I fucking get it, you really hate communists, but fucking hell tone down the revisionism.
Because thats just flat out disrespecting all the german communists that died in Spain, or whose resistance cells were discovered or those who were killed in the concentration camps.
Take a step back man...
Image

User avatar
Markenzwieback
Lieutenant
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue 27 Oct 2015 17:06
Contact:

Re: World news thread

Postby Markenzwieback » Wed 12 Jul 2017 15:58

Doinize wrote:
Markenzwieback wrote:didn't directly cooperate with Nazis (yes, NSDAP) just two days before Reichstag elections in 1932.

Are you referring to the BVG strike that was independantly supported by both the KPD and NSDAP? Because calling that cooperation is huge ass strech...

Independently supported, you say? Walter Ulbricht and Joseph Goebbels stood on the same bloody stage holding their rally.

Doinize wrote:
Nooooo, what am I thinking about...of course they were antifascists.

Are you saying the KPD wasnt antifascists? I fucking get it, you really hate communists, but fucking hell tone down the revisionism.
Because thats just flat out disrespecting all the german communists that died in Spain, or whose resistance cells were discovered or those who were killed in the concentration camps.
Take a step back man...

I am saying that Antifascism was and up until today is a merely well sounding slogan used by communists (and others on the far left). When it furthered their own interest, the KPD cooperated with NSDAP, cracked down on SPD instead of fighting fascists together with them (the will was there) during the 30s or subdued to Stalinism when it was propagated from Moscow.

Sure, the communists fighting in Spain were doing active antifascists action. But so were the Republicans of all other type if you go by these measurements. Speaking of revisionism, denying cooperation between KDP and NSDAP comes closer to that than my point I further explained above.

And last but not least, don't play the disrespecting the dead card on me, that's simply pathetic argumentation style. One of the people in German political history I respect most was put into a concentration camp himself and barely made it out alive. Too bad he was a clear anti-communist and a proponent of parliamentary democracy.
Courtesy to a discussion of the upcoming DLC for SD44. Sufficient to say, one of my
mates is very happy about the new Allied divisions. I totally don't get why... :roll:

Image
Spoiler : :
Image

User avatar
Doinize
Lieutenant
Posts: 1243
Joined: Tue 30 Jul 2013 13:14
Contact:

Re: World news thread

Postby Doinize » Wed 12 Jul 2017 16:47

That was litterally the only time that happend, during campaign...(and it hurt the NSDAP ironically)
Thats how that works. It was a tactical decision during campaign, there was more to gain from the ralley, than from causing another big ass fight between the SA and RFB...there was already enough of that going on...It would have certainly been more principled to go and beat the shit out of the Nazis, sure.


I am saying that Antifascism was and up until today is a merely well sounding slogan used by communists (and others on the far left).

The Internationales Buchenwald Komitee, not actually antifascist. The Yugoslav NOV, fighting Italy, Germany the Ustasha etc. not actually antifascist. The CNT-FAI, not actually antifascist. The POUM, not actually antifascist. ELAS, not actually antifascist.
I can keep going, but I think you get my point...


When it furthered their own interest, the KPD cooperated with NSDAP, cracked down on SPD instead of fighting fascists together with them (the will was there) during the 30s

We sort of talked about that before. Yeah, the will was there. On both sides, people advocated for collaboration between the Workers Partys (and the Unions). Those people were in the minority in both the SPD and the KPD. God knows how history would have turned out if they hadnt been.
The idea of the United Front was active Internationale policy during the 20s, in which there actually were United Front governments (SPD KPD coalitions) in two german States, Saxony and Thuringia. Yeah thats actually what its called in englisch...
The social fascism theory replaced the United or Peoples Front idea, as party line and dealt the hardest blow to the relationship between Social democrats and Communists ever since Karl and Rosa were murdered.
The idea of the United Front would be partially realised in resistance groups, the local group in my quarter for example consisted of Communists (KPD and KAPD), and Social Democrats in about equal parts. The Buchenwald Komitee is another example of that, sucessfully creating a "Volksfrontkomitee".


And last but not least, don't play the disrespecting the dead card on me, that's simply pathetic argumentation style. One of the people in German political history I respect most was put into a concentration camp himself and barely made it out alive. Too bad he was a clear anti-communist and a proponent of parliamentary democracy.

That doesnt mean its not kinda disrespectfull to say the countless communists and anarchists that died fighting against fascism werent really antifascists...i stand by that, thats a bit of a shiity thing to say man...
Image

User avatar
Markenzwieback
Lieutenant
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue 27 Oct 2015 17:06
Contact:

Re: World news thread

Postby Markenzwieback » Wed 12 Jul 2017 20:03

Doinize wrote:That was litterally the only time that happend, during campaign...(and it hurt the NSDAP ironically)
Thats how that works. It was a tactical decision during campaign, there was more to gain from the ralley, than from causing another big ass fight between the SA and RFB...there was already enough of that going on...It would have certainly been more principled to go and beat the shit out of the Nazis, sure.

Yet it reinforces the point that the underlying ideal of Antifascism can easily abandoned when the political benefits of doing so are high enough. Further, a truely antifascist agenda wouldn't have enforced the defamation of social democrats as 'Sozialfaschisten' instead of working with them.

Doinize wrote:the Ustasha

Are we talking about the Croat fascists, or am I missing something?

Doinize wrote:The social fascism theory replaced the United or Peoples Front idea, as party line and dealt the hardest blow to the relationship between Social democrats and Communists ever since Karl and Rosa were murdered.

And exactly where did that originate from? By the 1930s the German communists were anything but independent in their ways and means; what suited Moscow best, was official party line.

On a kinda unrelated note: If you fancy discussing this topic further, we should move it to PMs. Don't want to spam this topic too hard with our personal little dispute.
Courtesy to a discussion of the upcoming DLC for SD44. Sufficient to say, one of my
mates is very happy about the new Allied divisions. I totally don't get why... :roll:

Image
Spoiler : :
Image

User avatar
Fade2Gray
General
Posts: 8205
Joined: Wed 1 May 2013 23:30
Location: IED proof in Iraq
Contact:

Re: World news thread

Postby Fade2Gray » Wed 12 Jul 2017 22:51

On the plus side I don't think you guys are anywhere as bad as the Darth/Fade love fest that got going regularly back in the day. :mrgreen:
Image
Image
Think you have what it takes to enlist into the military? You sure about that?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Doinize and 10 guests