[Non/Future Nation] Baathist Alliance: Iraq and Syria

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47andrej
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[Non/Future Nation] Baathist Alliance: Iraq and Syria

Postby 47andrej » Mon 10 Oct 2016 19:40

Baathist Alliance: Iraq and Syria
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When next double nation DLC arrives it will be 2 new RedFor vs 2 new BluFor nations. Allmost nothing will change on a fact that RedFor has much less nations to choose from compared to BluFor. So odds are good if gonna have 5th nation DLC it will be a RedFor one. I propose Arab Alliance

Capability
Arab alliance consisting of 2 nations: Irak and Syria. They bring in powerfull units, lionshare being soviet equipment, with quite some decent western equipment. Iraq developed own upgrades and some oft hem are excellent ones, while Syria had non-downgraded equipment USSR never exported to other socialist affiliated states.
Mostly thanks to Iraq Arab coalition would bring one of the best support selections in WRD. Other sections are very solid ones. What Arab coalition lacks is superheavy tank. However tank section has some interesting and famous domestic solutions.

Lets help Israel not feel alone!
Besides military hardware Arab Alliance would make Israel not look out of place fighting vs scandinavic or SE asian nations.

Paper designs, OOTF and unicorns aspect
Not a single unit was just paper/non-finished design.
Only one upgrade really pushes the timeframe: TURMS-T FCS upgrade. It was applied 2003 on syrian tanks, designed however earlier. Thats two units from the list.

There a couple of foreign units Iraq already signed contracts before 1991: MiG-31E, Mirage-2000S and Mi-28. First two were designed specially for Iraq by France and USSR. Due to after-Gulf War embargo they were cancelled. MiG-27MLS (upgraded MiG-27MLD)was designed by USSR for Syria, however Syria rejected the offer due to money shortage.

>>>>Here we go<<<<
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KtI4_m3NqiLk6abw3gPlpZwa8ZMRAfVbOmICWBW4Jr4/edit#gid=482144790

Highlights

Inf

Shock FIST
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Syria had dedicated RPG squads trained for hunting of israeli tank force. They inflicted considerabel losses to IDF in 1982 Lebannon War.
Metis-M/RPG29
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Syria as most reliable partner of USSR/Russia in middle East received advanced AT weapons in early-mid 90s. Kornet ATGM reported to be exported in 97 is not in this list - due to certain restrictions.

Tank

T-55 Enigma
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Enigma upgraded iraqi T-55A with 4.6 tonn addon armor. Composite armor blocks covered both front and sides. While iraqi engagement in Kuweit Enigma tanks shrugged off several Milan hits.
Proposed stats:
15-7-6-3
15 AP
T-72AV(syrian designation T-82)
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Syria was only one state to become non-downgraded version of T-72A, also a soviet exclusive 3BM-44 APFSDS. In early 90s it got fully upgraded with Kontakt-1 ERA, hence V abbreviation. ATGM launch ability and advanced italian TURMS-T version were added later.
Proposed stats:
16-8-3-3
20 AP
Svir/Refleks ATGM

Support

Al Fao
AL_Fao_210mm_SP.jpg
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Prototype arty were futured on 89 Baghdad Arms Expo. Longrange 210 mm caliber 4 RoF reported. Al Fao, same as south african G6 Howitzer was developed by engineer Gerard Bull.
Al Laith
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Iraqi tactical missile based on 9K52 Luna-M. It had extended range and amongst other cluster submunition warhead. ATACMS pendant without its pinpoint accuracy!
Ababeel-100 / Al Fat'h
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The crown jewel in Iraq's MLRS manufacturing capability was the locally produced Ababil-100 system, later renamed Al-Fat'h. The 400 mm Ababil-100 is a truck mounted MLRS with a four round capability. Each rocket fired by the ABABEEL reportedly carries a warhead capable of dispensing 300 anti-tank bomblets and 25 anti-tank minelets.
IR-Kub
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Kub rocket modified with R-60M seeker - non-Radar unit in ingame terms.

Recon

T-72 TURMS-T Syria equipped some base T-72 with advanced italian TURMS-T FCS. Among other things it has panoramic view quite beneficial for recon duties.
RASIT Iraq buyed those recon radars from France. They were mounted on vehicles presumably on jeeps.

Vehicles

BMD-1 Besides RedFor standart issue BMP1/2s iraq had also that airborne IFV.
BMP-1 Saddam
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Shown at 89 Baghdad Arms Expo, had with applique armor upgraded front and sides. Further upgrades unknown.

Heli

Mi-28
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AAM-armed Mi-24
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Iraq and Iran had largest heli-on-heli engagements in history. After initial losses versus iranian Cobras Iraq equipped some Hinds with Igla or R-60M AAMs.

Planes

MiG-31E
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Export MiG-31 for Iraq.

Tu-22
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Iraq adopted to use this large bomber with mostly one FAB-9000 versus entrenched iranian forces. Pilots adopted supersonic toss bombing tactics to aquare pretty accurate hits. After soviet supplied FAB-9000 stock run low Iraq started to produce them domestically.

Disclaimer i used some of Icehawks workhttp://forums.eugensystems.com/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=50263
Last edited by 47andrej on Mon 1 May 2017 16:45, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Arab Federation - proporsal for a possible future Nation DLC

Postby 47andrej » Mon 10 Oct 2016 20:10

Why Syria?

All the unique equipment in my list comes from Iraq. Iraq however lacks high-end AT capabilities ITF. Iraqs performance in Gulf War has probably something to do with it. AT capabilities is something where Syria quite shines. Together, Iraq and Syria forms very competitive ANZAC-type nation.

However if one would go alternative path and consider Saddams wishlist for military toys Iraq could stay alone.

Why not Egypt?

Egypt has not really indigenous, unique units like Iraq nor high-endish equipment from USSR like Syria. Instead Egypt drifted steadily to BluFor camp from early 80s on and became M1A1 Abrams in early 90s as culmination, being quite trusted by USA. Its pretty important sign of US reliance since Israels defence had to be considered top priority. In the end, in WRD timeframe Egypt has to be BluFor.
Last edited by 47andrej on Tue 11 Oct 2016 22:42, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Arab Federation - proporsal for a possible future Nation DLC

Postby Fade2Gray » Mon 10 Oct 2016 20:42

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Think you have what it takes to enlist into the military? You sure about that?

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Re: Arab Federation - proporsal for a possible future Nation DLC

Postby 47andrej » Tue 11 Oct 2016 12:42

Fade2Gray wrote:http://forums.eugensystems.com/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=50263

Icehawks thread has 3 nations as proporsal. I have Iraq and Syria combined into one, with additional units and stats added.

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Re: Arab Federation - proporsal for a possible future Nation DLC

Postby Killertomato » Tue 11 Oct 2016 19:27

Genuinely a big fan of this. Flavor-y, but not hideously OP like BLUFOR GCC or blah at the top end like Cuba.

The only real problem is that Hafez Al-Asad and Saddam Hussein hated each other.
Last edited by Killertomato on Wed 12 Oct 2016 01:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Arab Federation - proporsal for a possible future Nation DLC

Postby HrcAk47 » Wed 12 Oct 2016 00:41

Oooo nice. I like it. Very good call by making a Baathist coalition out of 3 individually meh countries. Now it's actually viable.

A few notes - Give them something unique.

Make the shock FIST carry a Strela (cat C) and Igla (cat A) as well. I read about how they carried MANPADS regularly on missions.

Also, 5-man ATGM teams for everything.

This would be the perfect counter to Israel.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: Arab Federation - proporsal for a possible future Nation DLC

Postby 47andrej » Wed 12 Oct 2016 18:38

Killertomato wrote:Genuinely a big fan of this. Flavor-y, but not hideously OP like BLUFOR GCC or blah at the top end like Cuba.

The only real problem is that Hafez Al-Asad and Saddam Hussein hated each other.

Yes, indeed there is a bit of flexibility needed, but i think not much more than by pressing neutral countries in respective BluFor or RedFor camp. There was actually a plan uniting Syria and Iraq, talks were holded several years until late 1979 when the relations cooled down and unification plans discarded.
HrcAk47 wrote:Oooo nice. I like it. Very good call by making a Baathist coalition out of 3 individually meh countries. Now it's actually viable.

A few notes - Give them something unique.

Make the shock FIST carry a Strela (cat C) and Igla (cat A) as well. I read about how they carried MANPADS regularly on missions.

Also, 5-man ATGM teams for everything.

This would be the perfect counter to Israel.

Thanks. Make it fully viable while not being plastered with OOTF stuff was my plan.
Yes, i could make other ATGM teams 5-man like the last Metis-M, its stealth versus hitpoints decision, question is what is better.
Second elite inf unit in proporsal, syrian 20 Commando Bat has Metis and Igla-1 load-out.

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Re: Arab Federation - proporsal for a possible future Nation DLC

Postby 47andrej » Sun 16 Oct 2016 18:57

Brasilian contribution
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While the biggest part iraqi military hardware, imported or license produced, comes from USSR, followed by France, there quite striking amount of stuff from Brazil.

APCs
EE3 Jaraica wheeled APC armed with 20mm AC and MG
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EE11 Urutu wheeled APC armed with an MG
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EE9 Cascavel wheeled light tank 90 mm Engesa cannon. Based on Urutu.
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MLRS
ASTROS II system from Brasil was modular, it could mount 127, 180 and 300 mm rocket launchers. Those SS-30, SS-40 and SS-60 rockets were license produced by Iraq and called Sijeel 30/40/60.

Air-to-air Missiles

Saddam looked into improving its fighter capabilities, for instance he exchanged old R-3S AAM for french Matra 550 on its MiG-21.
Iraq had several brazilian scientists working on first iraqi AAM Al-Taq-Ham in late 80s. Those scientists worked previously on brasilian Pirahna AAM. Saddam was interested in buying Piranha blueprints since brasilians had some bigger troubles with AAM development. Piranha AAM is short-range, designed to replace ald Sidewinder. First prototypes were made 1992, in 2000s it was exported to Pakistan, Indonesia and Colombia.


Edit next contribution will be about what Saddam planned for iraqi airforce.

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Re: Arab Federation - proporsal for a possible future Nation DLC

Postby hansbroger » Mon 17 Oct 2016 21:33

Big fan of the Baathist coalition!

T-55 Enigma seems to have considerable armor potential... ie NERA EVERYWHERE!? Now we just get into discussions of effectiveness but... Turns out you can make great NERA with thin high hardness steel plates (easy to obtain) and rubber. We're probably talking BDD style +350-400mm RHAe over the entire frontal 180 degree arc. The spacing on the turret is just obscene.
https://gurth.home.xs4all.nl/afv/pdfs/enigma.pdf
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Considering what this buys you in game....
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Re: Arab Federation - proporsal for a possible future Nation DLC

Postby Killertomato » Mon 17 Oct 2016 21:41

T-55 ENIGMA is Milan-proof apparently. Just wish the sources would note which MILAN.
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