[Non included Nation] Thailand

phuri45
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[Non included Nation] Thailand

Postby phuri45 » Sun 1 Jan 2017 16:07

This is my first thread on Eugen forum so I apologize if I do anything wrong.

My suggestion is for the Southeast Asian DLC Nation packs with Vietnam on the REDFOR and Thailand on the BLUFOR. Now, Vietnam was known far and wide but Thailand's largely forgotten despite being Vietnam's most likely opponent in 80s-90s. Here's my Thai faction unit lineup suggestion. Enjoy and give me feedback:)

Because the first post is a massive wall of text. The initial unit lineup will be available at Post #18
Last edited by phuri45 on Sun 8 Jan 2017 16:08, edited 1 time in total.
http://forums.eugensystems.com/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=59177

Faction proposal: Thailand. Added as SEA nations DLC with Vietnam.

phuri45
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Re: [Non included Nation] Thailand

Postby phuri45 » Mon 2 Jan 2017 07:19

List updated
-Remove broken images
-Add UH-60L Black Hawk Transport Helicopters
-Edit A-7E's load out from two BL-755s to four.
http://forums.eugensystems.com/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=59177

Faction proposal: Thailand. Added as SEA nations DLC with Vietnam.

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FrangibleCover
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Re: [Non included Nation] Thailand

Postby FrangibleCover » Mon 2 Jan 2017 15:40

phuri45 wrote:This is my first thread on Eugen forum so I apologize if I do anything wrong.

It's an ambitious first post, that's for sure! Generally I see Thailand as one of those flavour nations that's very definitely East Asian but not actually good, but let's take a look at your proposal.

Spoiler : Logistics :
Type-85 ACV: Command Vehicle variant of the Type-85. Prototype only. 120 points.

Basically my only comment on the logistics tab is that the Type-85 is a bit of a waste of a prototype. I think there are some Thai M577s that could be put in instead. The rest is all fine, bog standard Blufor Logi tab.


Spoiler : Infantry :
Thahan Rab'90: The upgraded version of the Thahan Rab, armed with RPS-001 assault rifle, M72A4 LAW and M60. The RPS-001 is the first indigenous Thai assault rifle, developed in the 90s when Thailand look to replace M1 Garand, M1 Carbine and M16A1 then in service with the RTA but had fallen out of favor when Thailand choose the purchase the M16A4 instead. Now, in this alternate timeline, Thailand believe in self-reliance and the rifle was thus accepted. It's a combination of Czech Vz.58 and American M16A2 firing 5.56 NATO rounds and should have the same stats as the M16 but with increased rate of fire (232 rounds per minute, in reality it can archive 620 rounds per minute but imagine MG-3 with the correct fire rate.). The price got increased to 15 points. Available transports: M3 Halftrack, Humvee, M113A1, M113A3, YW-531H (Type-85 APC), RSP-15t, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412.

The basic infantry are fine but I'm a little concerned here. I'm not sure that Thailand's new belief in self reliance would be accepted by Eugen as a reason for the entire army being equipped with a new service rifle. Maybe keep it to the Special Forces units, especially with the higher rate of fire (rated as a carbine?). That means these guys aren't worth 15 points, so the same stats as Susong-Po '85. When was the M72A4 acquired?

Thahan Rab Bao (ทหารราบเบา lit. Light Infantry): 10 men, regular trained squad armed with M16, M47 Dragon ATGM and M60. Available Transport: M3 Halftrack, M113A1, M113A3, UH-1H Huey

Mechanized Light Infantry? I like!

Thahan Rab Bao'90: upgraded version reequipped with RPS-001, M47 II Super Dragon and FN MAG CQC variant. Available Transport: M3 Halftrack, M113A1, M113A3, YW-531H, RSP-15t, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412.

Slightly confused here. Are these guys CQC Regular Light Infantry or are both 'Bao' units shock and the '80 version doesn't have CQC for some reason?

Por Ror Sor (ป.ร.ส, a shortened version of Thai word "ปืนไร้แรงสะท้อน" literally "Recoilless rifle"): A 5 men fire support team equipped with M16 and 106mm M40A2 recoilless rifle. 16 AP, 1,400m range, 40% accuracy, Regular trained. 10 points. Available transport: M3 Halftrack, Humvee, M113A1, M113A3, UH-1H Huey.

The M40 is bloody heavy. I certainly wouldn't mind it but you might find some people who will.

Jor Tor Tōr (จ.ต.ถ, a shortened version for Thai word "จรวดต่อสู้รถถัง" literally "ATGM"). A five men strong, regular trained squad armed with M16 and M47 Super Dragon ATGM. This will be clearly one of Thailand's main weakness as it lacks any significant ATGM infantry. 15 points. Available Transport: M3 Halftrack, Humvee, M113A1, M113A3, UH-1H Huey.

Essentially a Vuurploeg clone? Make sure to mention that they get HE too.

RPS-7: 5 men fire support team armed with RPS-001 and RPS-7 RPG, a modified Thai version of the Chinese Type-69 RPG. 20 AP, 700m range. Prototype only, 15 points. Available transport: M3 Halftrack, Humvee, M113A1, M113A3, YW-531H, RSP-15t, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412.

An interesting unit but I'd be looking to give that RPG to a line unit instead. Thailand has enough FIST teams and the M40 can throw HE at things from twice the range that the RPS-7 can.

Redeye: Your MANPADS team. 10 points, 2 men team armed with M16 and Redeye. Regular trained. Available Transport: M3 Halftrack, Humvee, M113A1, M113A3, UH-1H Huey.

HN-5A: A Chinese MANPADS purchased in 1990. Mostly the same with Chinese HN-5A. Two men squad, M-16 and HN-5A. 5 points, available transport: M3 Halftrack, M113A1, M113A3, YW-531H, RSP-15t, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412.

HN-5B: Looking to replace the retired Blowpipe, Thailand purchased 100 sets of Chinese HN-5B MANPADS in 1996. 10 points, two men strong ,regular trained, squad armed with RPS-001 and HN-5B. Available transport: Humvee, M3 Halftrack, M113A1, M113A3, YW-531H, RSP-15T, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412.

Can I check, really quick, exactly what the Thai Air Defence Command were high on when they formulated this policy? FOUR different kinds of horrible MANPADS when the US would probably have given them Stingers practically free! Anyway, you really only need the Redeye team, although it's previously been suggested that Blowpipes be given the ability to use their missile in direct-fire HE delivery on the basis that it was done by the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Ror Dor: Direct English translation for the term ร.ด, an abbreviation for the word รักษาดินแดน (Defender of the Homeland), in turn the unofficial name for นักศึกษาวิชาทหาร (Army Reserve Student Corps). Thailand's militia squad, or should I say students. Most of Thailand's male population including me and a small chunk of females who volunteer had to enroll into this organization when they're in high school. The squad's 15 men strong, militia trained, armed with Type-66 Siamese Mauser(In reality it's an Arisaka derivative) and M20A1 Super Bazooka. The Siamese Mauser got 40% accuracy on static, 5% on the move, 64 rounds per minute. Prototype only. 5 points. Available Transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack.

Hahahaha! Yeah, sure, so long as the Arisaka's stats match the rest of the bolt action rifles in the game, I can't be bothered to go and check.

Ror Dor'90: Yes, upgraded militia. Rearmed with Type-11(licensed HK-33), Type-25 73mm Bazooka and UTS-203 grenade launcher, the UTS-203 is the Thai modification of the M203 40mm grenade launcher mounted onto the Type-11, 2 HE, 30% accuracy, 8 rounds per minute. Another alternative is to replace the UTS-203 with HK-21 SAW with 30% accuracy on static and 10% on the move. In reality the Type-25 rocket launcher was a disaster with warheads exploding inside the tubes and substandard accuracy due to Thailand's lack of experience in working on things like rocket launchers. However it still archives penetration power demanded by the RTA. 15 AP, 35% accuracy, rounds per minute. Available Transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack. 15 points.

I'm pretty sure that the various grenade launchers that can be used on pretty much all infantry weapons are abstracted into the gun itself, certainly nobody else gets the GLs. With that in mind I think that Militia with a CQC MG would be absolutely hilarious, as good as the old Haer Hjemvaernet in early ALB. 15 points is too many but 10 points seems too few.

Gorng Pan Jujome'90: The upgraded version of the original 75 variant. The 90s version comes with RPS-001S Assault rifle, Carl Gustav M3 and Minimi. The RPS-001S is the shortened carbine version of the RPS-001 with little to no difference to the original RPS-001. 35 points. Available Transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack, M113A1, M113A3, YW-531H, RSP-15t, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412.

Finally, some decent AT options. These guys should keep their carbined RPSs.

Suranari (กองกำลังสุรนารี Lit. "Suranari Unit"): Named "Suranari" after one of Thailand's heroine, is the name for Thailand's rapid response force based in Korat. The unit's formed in 1980s to respond to the Vietnamese buildup along the border. 10 men strong, shock trained infantry armed with M16, M72 LAW and M60E3. 25 points. Available transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack, M113A1, M113A3, UH-1H Huey. 15 points

Suranari'95: Upgraded version of the Suranari. Rearmed with RPS-001S, Carl Gustav M3 and Minimi. 30 point. Available Transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack, M113A1, M113A3, YW-531H, RSP-15t, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412.

I like it. Like Blufor Mot. Schutzen without the IFV. Give the '90s one the RPS-7 though, and continue to strip out the RPS-001 variants.

Pak Tong Chai (ปักธงชัย): Named after their base camp in Pak Tong Chai, Korat, Northeastern Thailand. Officially named the 20th Thahan Pranh Regiment. They are the best of nearly a hundred Thahan Pranh units Thailand have at its disposal. They're constantly deployed to the border and beating back numerous Vietnamese raids across the border, some of which outnumbering them 10 to 1. Though that can be contributed to Thailand having the high ground. They also were deployed deep into Laos during the Thai-Laotian border war of 1987, attacking Laotian rear, blocking roads and hampering enemy logistics. 5 men, shock trained squad armed with TOBZ-56 Assault Rifle, RPG-2 and RPD. 20 points. Available Transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack, M113A1, M113A3.

Actually it seems to me like the Ror Dor '80 could be given an RPD and Ror Dor would also be a good representation of Thahan Pranh. They're paramilitaries like Grenzers and BGS, I appreciate that they might be good but paramilitary units get Militia training in Wargame.

Navikkayothin(นาวิกโยธิน lit. "Marine"): These are men from the Royal Thai Marine Corps. 10 men squad armed with M16, M72 LAW and M60. Shock trained. Available transport: M3 Halftrack, LVT, UH-1H Huey. 25 points

Navikkayothin'95: upgraded version of the original Navikkayothin. Rearmed with RPS-001S, Carl Gustav M3 and Minimi. Available Transport: M3 Halftrack, LVT, AAV-7A1, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412. 30 points.

Alright mate, come clean with me. Have Thailand ever operated anything in numbers apart from the M16, M72 and M60? Also, Marines are usually 15 men and I think you've screwed up some of the points costs in the section but I don't know them off the top of my head.


Spoiler : Support :
M109A5: Thailand bought 20 M109A5 SPG along with 6 CH-47D Chinook in the aftermath of the Thai-Laotian Border War of 1987 when they found it to be extremely difficult for towed 155mm howitzers to be relocated in the face of a Laotian counter barrage directed by North Korean advisers. The same in every aspect as the American M109A6 Paladin though its range is reduced to 22,000 meters. 110 points.

The first unit which I'd actually classify as 'good'.

YW-306: An MRLS version of the YW-531H with 30 tube 130mm MRLS mounted on top of it. Similar to the Chinese PHZ-70 but with HE warhead instead of a napalm one. 7 HE. 65 points.

YW-304: An 82mm mortar carriage based on the YW-531H, with 1 extra armor on the front and ammunition capacity increased to 140 rounds. Armed with .50cal M2 machine gun for self defense. 35 points.

YW-381: A 120mm mortar carriage based on the YW-531H, 1 extra frontal armor, ammunition capacity increased to 65 rounds. Armed with .50cal M2 for self defense. 45 points.

Interesting options.

M151 HN-5A: An M151 jeep with an HN-5A MANPADS mounted on it. 15 points.

Humvee HN-5B: An open topped Humvee with HN-5B MANPADS. 20 points.

Oh dear. Oh my. Oh no.
M151 Redeye is good enough. Well, it's terrible but at least it's not Cat-A like those two.

Spada Aspide: A Spada Aspide SAM launcher mounted onto an Isuzu truck. Spada missile is the ground based variant of the AIM-7F Sparrow AAM. The Spada have 8 missiles, 4,550 meters range against airplanes, 2,800 meters against helicopters. 40% accuracy on static, very good air detection, medium size, poor stealth. 80 points.

YAY! I'd rate it better than 40% accuracy, the Aspide is a good missile and this thing is going to be the backbone of Thai air defence. I hope you can get two cards.


Spoiler : Tanks :
M24 Chaffee
M41A3 Walker Bulldog
Scorpion Light Tank
M48A5

Quite a dense low-end for the tanks but I suppose they're all noticeably different and none require large amounts of new modelling.

M48A5TH: This one's an alternate history. Thai M48A5 never received any upgrades other than hastily made wooden side skirts. In this timeline the Thais send their M48A5 to South Korea for upgrade. Added on armored skirt increase side armor to 4, the tank in other aspect were upgraded to M48A5K WRSA level, 2275 meters range for the 105mm gun, hitting with 17 AP and 3 HE, 45% accuracy, no stabilizer, 8 rounds per minute. Come with a .50cal M2 machine gun and M60 machine gun. Prototype only. 50 points.

I'm not sure how happy I am with this being totally made up. I think Thailand has units that can fill in the cheapish medium role already, so I'd drop it.

M60A3 TTS: Commissioned in 1996, as form of US military assistance program. 105 tanks entered RTA service. The TTS came with good optics for a 10 points increase from the original M60A3. 60 points.

Good Optics outside of the recon tab is a definite no. Medium Optics and be happy with it. Or move it wholesale to the recon tab.

ZTZ-69-IIA: Later in the late 1990s, all ZTZ-69s in Thai service were sent back to China for maintenance, some of them were upgraded with 105mm gun(similar to the Chinese ZTZ-59-IIA) and enter service with the Royal Thai Marine Corps. 9 frontal armor, 5 side, 3 rear. 100mm gun, 16 AP, 3 HE, 50% accuracy, 30% stabilizers. Medium size, medium optics. Prototype only. 50 points.

There are a lot of prototype medium tanks in here. I would probably keep this one as the 'armoured' option though.

Commando Stingray I: Thailand's pride and joy. While fallen out of favor in the US AGS contest the Thai army did liked the idea of light, highly mobile and hard hitting vehicles and thus the contract was signed. 5 years after the purchase the tank suffered from massive cracking issue. Cadillac sent team to investigate and turn out the cause of the cracking is the fact that the RTA have a competition for each tankers for who can make the tank jump as high as possible. The highest were reported to be over two meters. Cadillac repaired the tank for free and it returned to service. 3 armor on the front, 2 on the side and rear with 1 on top. 17 AP and 3 HE on the 105mm L7A3. 55% accuracy, 40% stabilizer. Comes with a .50cal. Small size, poor optics, poor stealth, 70 km/h off-road speed, 50 points.

Aww yeah! If the Scorpion variants ever go back to 130kmh this thing is coming too.

Commando Stingray II: This one's an alternate history. Initially the Thai army was interested in them but the media keep slamming the military for the Stingray I's cracking issue to the point that the army's forced to drop them. In this alternate timeline of longer, more violent Cold War. Thailand purchased it as it need every guns it can get. Commission date 1996. 6 armor on the front, 3 on the side, 2 on the rear, 1 on top. 21 AP and 3 HE on the L7A3, again comes with the .50cal. Medium optics, medium stealth, small size. Prototype only. 80 points.

Overwhelming flavour. I'd love to see this, although it can be killed by a quick cluster MRLS.

Panzer 68: Yes, the Panzer 68, that terrible Swiss MBT that were teethed with so many problems that ruined its reputation completely. After fixing all the problems, the Swiss offer 200 Panzer 68 to Thailand in late 1990s. Needless to say the deal fell through as the Thai army feared the Panzer 68's reputation and didn't believe that the Swiss had already fleshed out all the problems. However, Thailand in this timeline purchase the tank, completely overhauled and upgraded. 105mm gun fire 17 AP, 3 HE. 60% accuracy, 45% stabilizer. 9 frontal armor, 4 side, 3 rear. Comes with an MG-3. Prototype only. 75 points.

TH-301 (TAM): Also known as TAM from its only user Argentina. The TH-301 entered trial in the RTA and were tested at Lopburi proving grounds in central Thailand. While never adopted in real life, the Thai army adopted the tank in this alternate timeline. 6 frontal armor, 4 on the side, 2 on the rear, 1 on the top. 105mm L7 gun, 45% accuracy, 30% stabilizer, 13 AP, 3 HE comes with a mounted MG-3 machine gun. Medium size, poor optics, Prototype only. 40 points.

Too much. You're not getting an entire tank tab in prototype form, I'm afraid. Thailand's tanks will be poor because that is not where Thailand's strength lies.


Spoiler : Recon :
Thahan Pranh (ทหารพราน lit. Hunter soldier): paramilitary forces recruited from local population to fight against communist insurgency. Armed with TOBZ-56, Type-69 and RPD. Costed 10 points and have good optics. It should fill the gaps for cheap units, between the regular trained Susak-Dae and the more well trained JSDF ranger and to be deployed as watch out for any SF sneaking behind the line. Available transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack, V-150, M113 ACAV.

Ah, that's where these guys are. I suppose that makes sense. Militia training and these would be interesting.

RTA Ranger: 5 men shock recon infantry armed with M16, M72 and M60E3. Shock trained, 15 points. Available transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack, M113 ACAV, V-150, UH-1H Huey.

RTA Ranger'95: Upgraded variant of the RTA Ranger. Rearmed with RPS-001, Carl Gustav M3 and Minimi. Available Transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack, M113 ACAV, V-150, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412

I'm pretty bored of units with exactly the same loadout over and over. Honestly I think you could dispense with these guys and get past on Thahan Pranh, Pol Sum Ying and Seals.

RTN Navy SEAL: Royal Thai Navy's elite troops, trained by the US Navy SEAL. Ten men squad, armed with Carbine M727, Carl Gustav M2 and FN MAG SAW. Elite trained. 30 points. Available Transport: LVT, AAV-7A1, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412

I really do hope these are Cat-C because they seem to be Thailand's only source of not-crap AT pre 1990s.

M60A3 TTS Recon: The same with the M60A3 TTS in the tank tab in most aspect. With optics being upgraded from medium-good to exceptional. Price increased to 80 points.

It's just a thermal sight mate, nothing exceptional about it. Good optics, like the rest of the recon tanks, maybe Very Good because it is a nice thermal sight. Speaking of which, you might want to move either the Chaffee or Walker Bulldog in here.

Tor Chor Dor: Direct translation of Thai word ต.ช.ด. Abbreviations for "ตำรวจตระเวนชายแดน" (Border Patrol Police). A 5 men, regular trained squad armed with HK-33 Battle rifle, M72 LAW and M60. Good optics. 15 points. Available Transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack, V-150, M113 ACAV, UH-1H Huey.

They seem a bit redundant with the much more interesting Thahan Pranh.

Pol Sum Ying (พลซุ่มยิง lit. Sniper): Two men/women, elite trained squad armed with Carbine M727, M72 LAW and M16 DMR. They're subordinate to Special Warfare Command based in Lopburi, Central Thailand. On multiple occasions, Thailand used female members for deep infiltration behind enemy's rear. The M16 DMR is basically an M16 with sniper scope attached on top of it over the handle. 90% accuracy for the M16 DMR. 25 points. Available Transport: Unimog, M3 Halftrack, M113 ACAV, V-150, UH-1H Huey, Bell 412.

Yup, they're good. Gives an excuse for more female units, which are always interesting, and more Thai ladyboy jokes, which are never interesting. Sorry.

I can't help but notice that Thailand is desperately short on recon vehicles. I'd definitely add a jeep and I'd think about what else was used by reconnaissance units.


Spoiler : Vehicles :
Type-95 Ha-Go: Yes, a WW2 era Japanese Type-95 Ha-Go light tank. The Thai military received 50 vehicles from Japan during the war and it remained in service until 1952, replaced by M24 Chaffee. However, in this alternate timeline Thailand needs every gun it has and recommissioned the tank for rear security and counter insurgency operation. 1 armor on all sides and even a 12.7 armed transport can kill one. However, it comes with very small size, good stealth and armed with a 37mm gun that have 2 HE and 3 AP. 40% accuracy and 5% stabilizer. 8 RPM, poor optics. 5 points.

Bahahahahaha! Oh, very definitely. 40% acc is wayyy to high though, look closer to 20%.

M113 FSV: An M113 refitted with new turret and 90mm Cockerill Mk.8 main gun. 2,000 meters, 50% accuracy 13 AP, 3 HE, 7 RPM. Poor optics. 25 points

Yup, this is the sort of thing that can go in the recon tab. Good optics, pretty cheap, like a cut-rate HVMS.

M901A3 ITV: Thailand purchase 18 M901A3 ITV in late 1990s. Use M113A3 chassis instead of M113A1's. TOW 2 mounted with 70% accuracy, 2625m range. No amphibious capability. 65 points

I don't like the lateness of the unit but Thailand are going to need TOW-2 platforms desperately so this is fine.

M151 RR: An M151 jeep armed with 106mm M40A2 recoilless rifle onboard. 12 AP, 1,750 meters. 30% accuracy. 10 points

I remember when France had these in the recon tab. They're no damn use in the vehicle tab so I'd consider moving it over.

V-150 Commando: American Recon transport. Thailand purchased these vehicles in the hundreds and they still remain in service even to this day. The Thai version were armed with MG-3 machine gun. 30% accuracy, 20% stabilizer for the MG-3. 15 points.

Did these ever get other weapons like the American ones already in game? More fodder for the recon tab!

M113 ACAV: The same as the American ACAV. 15 points.

Going heavy on the recon transports and then having three cards of Thahan Pranh might be an interesting way of fleshing out recon without adding too many vehicles that are patently useless in the 35% of Thailand that's forested.

Type-85 AFV: An upgraded version of Chinese Type-63(YW-531), being larger, with improved fuel autonomy and speed, with medium optics. Armed with M2 .50cal machine gun, its price got increased for the optics. 2 armor on top and side, 1 at the rear and on the top. Prototype only. 15 points.

Hang on, if the Chinese APCs are prototype should the mortar carriers based on them be too?

RSP-15t: An indigenous Thai APC developed by the ministry of defense, based on the Type-85 APC design. With reinforced armor and increased crew compartment. 3 frontal armor, 2 side and rear, 1 on top. Armed with .50cal M2 machine gun. Medium optics, 30km/h amphibious speed. Prototype only. 20 points.

And if the APCs are prototype then surely the requirement for an upgrade is beyond the timeframe too?


Spoiler : Helicopters :
Bell-412 Haopha-1: A Bell armed with two experimental Haopha-1 rocket. One rocket pod on each side of the Huey with 20 rockets in each pod totaling 40 rockets. 20% accuracy with 10% stabilizer. 25 points.

What's a Haopha-1 and how is it different to all of the other rockets in game? I can't find anything on it in English.

AH-1F Cobra: Thailand's only dedicated attack helicopters. 4 were purchased and enter service in the Royal Thai Army in 1990. 80 points.

Nice, very nice. Thailand sure needs them.

UH-60A Blackhawk: Thailand initially have plan to replace its Hueys in service with the RTA with 33 Black Hawks. But due to the Asian Economic Crisis of 1997 forced the army to reduce the numbers to only six. In this timeline, with the Cold War never ended and Asian Economic Crisis with 1997 never happened and all 33 Black Hawks are delivered. Armed with twin M134 Minigun. 25 points

Delivery on schedule in 1997 then? I don't think it's needed with the Bell 412.


Spoiler : Aircraft :
AV-8S Matador RTN: Arrived to Thailand in 1995 along with the Aircraft carrier HTMS Chakri Naruebet. The plane were ex-Spanish navy plane. Armed with twin ADEN cannon and four AIM-9L Sidewinder. 20% ECM. 75 points.

This might need a different loadout...

AV-8B Harrier RTN: An alternate history. Initially the RTN intended to purchase AV-8B to replace the aging Matador but the Asian Economic Crisis struck and the procurement canceled. Armed with GAU-12 Equalizer, two AIM-9M Sidewinder and 4 GBU-12 Paveway PGM. 40% ECM. 130 points.

...because this is far beyond timeframe.

F-5F: equipped with GAU-13 30mm gun pod, a derivative of GAU-8 mounted on the infamous A-10 Thunderbolt, two Phyton-3 missile and two AGM-65E Mavericks. 30% ECM. The GAU-13 have 6 AP, 1 HE, 30% accuracy and stabilizer. 115 points.

Never heard of Thai operation of the GPU-5/A before but I wish I had. I'd nerf the accuracy because of the problems with the pod shaking on the pylon that the F-16s had in the Gulf War. Still, a VERY interesting option.

F-5T Tigris: the most unlikely of the bunch, but seeing as it exceeds the cutoff date only by a year makes me want to put it in the list anyway, along with the fact that most of Thailand's F-16 fleet were unupgraded F-16A and F-16B with first F-16A ADF coming in 2003 so it's OOTF. Basically in 1998, Thailand sent some of its upgraded F-5F and some unupgraded F-5E Tiger II to Israel for further upgrade. The first upgraded model arrived in Thailand in 2000 and the Tigris only arrive in a significant number by 2003. But the armament that it packs were twin M39A2, two Derby BWR AA missile and four Phyton IV WVR AA missile for close range dogfight. It's got upgraded ECM and HUD. As I said unlikely but here's the stats, 30% ECM, Exceptional air detection, 300 turn radius. Prototype only. 115 points.

Ah, right, this explains a lot of your inclusions. Cutoff date is 31st December 1991. Prototype cut-off date is 1995, I think. You can generally slip one unit past that but not many.

F-16A Peace Naresuan I: Thailand's first F-16 variant, delivered in 1988. Armed with M61 Vulcan and 6 AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles. 20% ECM. 90 points.

It's probably worth changing this to being armed with an M61 Vulcan, 3 AIM-9Ls and 3 AIM-9Ls. It looks like a stupid distinction but it means it'll fire twice as fast in game and be a bit less crap.

F-16A Peace Naresuan II: Ground attack variant of the F-16 armed with 4 Mk.82 500kg bomb and 2 AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles. 30% ECM. 135 points.

I assume you mean the Mk.83, which is 454kg, rather then the Mk.82, which is only 227kg.

F-16B Peace Naresuan III: F-16 armed with M161A1 Minigun, 4 AGM-65D Mavericks, 2 AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles. 30% ECM. Prototype only, 140 points.

Were there no Thai F-16Bs supplied in Naresuans I and II? How was the conversion training done?

F/A-18C Peace Naresuan IV: Initially ordered in 1998. Codenamed the Peace Naresuan IV, the units were never delivered because Thailand failed to pay the money on time due to Asian Economic Crisis and the program was canceled in 2001. In this alternate timeline Asian Economic Crisis never happened and Thailand receive the plane by 1997. M61A1 Vulcan, 4 AIM-120A AMRAAM, 4 AIM-9M Sidewinder, 40% ECM. 155 points.

Yeah, 1998 and a totally new type of aircraft isn't happening.
I realise I'm shooting down all of your ideas for fighters here and I do agree that Thailand needs something better than an F-16 knifefighter so I think the F-20 would be the best bet for inclusion. It's an upgrade withing timeframe and the 2x Sparrow, 4x Sidewinder armament doesn't make it feel like an ass-pull top tier ASF from what is otherwise a pretty mediocre air force.


I've been very critical here, which I'm sorry to do, but I definitely see some potential and I want this proposal to reach it! Thailand is too similar to South Korea to be very useful in Blue Dragons, with only a handful of nice-to-have units, but I could see it as a major part of a Blue South-East Asia coalition with Singapore, Malaysia, the Phillipines and maybe Taiwan. It'll be a lot of work but a pair of South-East Asian coalitions would be quite a lot of fun in game, I think.

Edit: Spoilered
Last edited by FrangibleCover on Sun 8 Jan 2017 16:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Non included Nation] Thailand

Postby phuri45 » Wed 4 Jan 2017 16:53

Spoiler : :
FrangibleCover wrote:It's an ambitious first post, that's for sure! Generally I see Thailand as one of those flavour nations that's very definitely East Asian but not actually good, but let's take a look at your proposal.

Thank you!

Basically my only comment on the logistics tab is that the Type-85 is a bit of a waste of a prototype. I think there are some Thai M577s that could be put in instead. The rest is all fine, bog standard Blufor Logi tab.

Thailand do operate M577 CP but I don't know when it's delivered

The basic infantry are fine but I'm a little concerned here. I'm not sure that Thailand's new belief in self reliance would be accepted by Eugen as a reason for the entire army being equipped with a new service rifle. Maybe keep it to the Special Forces units, especially with the higher rate of fire (rated as a carbine?). That means these guys aren't worth 15 points, so the same stats as Sochong-Su '85. When was the M72A4 acquired?

The RPS was supposed to completely replaced every other service weapons as standard issue weapons for the RTA but the first unit to tested them were Special Forces and Border Units so that would make sense. In reality, the RPS-001's fire rate is 620 RPM. But same can be said for many assault rifles and MG with fire rates lower than IRL.

Slightly confused here. Are these guys CQC Regular Light Infantry or are both 'Bao' units shock and the '80 version doesn't have CQC for some reason?

This's my own mistake. The Thahan Rab Bao'80 supposed to have M60 Shorty or M60E3.

The M40 is bloody heavy. I certainly wouldn't mind it but you might find some people who will.

I expect five men team to all drag the M40 on wheeled mount and deploy it. But that would open a new arguments for the B-40 and other heavy RR so I might have to reconsider.

Essentially a Vuurploeg clone? Make sure to mention that they get HE too.

OK!

An interesting unit but I'd be looking to give that RPG to a line unit instead. Thailand has enough FIST teams and the M40 can throw HE at things from twice the range that the RPS-7 can.

My original intention was for the RPS-7 to be Panzerjager on steroids. But I guess it'd be OK to give 90s infantry a decent AT option.

Can I check, really quick, exactly what the Thai Air Defence Command were high on when they formulated this policy? FOUR different kinds of horrible MANPADS when the US would probably have given them Stingers practically free! Anyway, you really only need the Redeye team, although it's previously been suggested that Blowpipes be given the ability to use their missile in direct-fire HE delivery on the basis that it was done by the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan in the 80s.

The HN-5 deal were more of a gesture of friendship between China and Thailand. The thing came with its price halved. Thailand back then desperately needed MANPADS and for some unknown reason we didn't asks the US for Stinger when they're willing to sell us F-16.

I'm pretty sure that the various grenade launchers that can be used on pretty much all infantry weapons are abstracted into the gun itself, certainly nobody else gets the GLs. With that in mind I think that Militia with a CQC MG would be absolutely hilarious, as good as the old Haer Hjemvaernet in early ALB. 15 points is too many but 10 points seems too few.

It's a hard choice that's for sure. Put them at 15 points and they would be in the line infantry tier and underpowered, but putting them at 10 points would be straight up spam OP militia.

Finally, some decent AT options. These guys should keep their carbined RPSs.

OK

I like it. Like Blufor Mot. Schutzen without the IFV. Give the '90s one the RPS-7 though, and continue to strip out the RPS-001 variants.

Actually, I would prefer them keeping the RPS. They're some of the first testers of RPS-001 after all.

Actually it seems to me like the Ror Dor '80 could be given an RPD and Ror Dor would also be a good representation of Thahan Pranh. They're paramilitaries like Grenzers and BGS, I appreciate that they might be good but paramilitary units get Militia training in Wargame.

The Ror Dor. Which I myself is a member of. Never operate any weapons from the communist bloc. But Thailand do have some WW2-era Type-11 and Type-96/99 MG Ex-IJA stock lying around. Maybe give them to the Ror Dor'80. Ror Dor also used Garand, M1 Carbine, earliest-M16 so I picked the oldest of the bunch which is the Type-66.

Alright mate, come clean with me. Have Thailand ever operated anything in numbers apart from the M16, M72 and M60? Also, Marines are usually 15 men and I think you've screwed up some of the points costs in the section but I don't know them off the top of my head.

It was my own fault for not checking the number first. For other equipment. Thai marines do operate a decent number of Carl Gustav (Both M2 and M3), FN MAG, Armburst, M47 Dragon and Super Dragon.

Oh dear. Oh my. Oh no.
M151 Redeye is good enough. Well, it's terrible but at least it's not Cat-A like those two.

May I ask why the Redeye is superior to the HN-5B? The HN-5 is more accurate with the same range.

I'm not sure how happy I am with this being totally made up. I think Thailand has units that can fill in the cheapish medium role already, so I'd drop it.

The thing's suppose to fill the gap but then there's the M60A1 and Chinese ZTZ-69-II there so I'd drop it as well.

Good Optics outside of the recon tab is a definite no. Medium Optics and be happy with it. Or move it wholesale to the recon tab.

The problem is that, all M60A3 in Thai service are TTS. I must moved the whole units to Recon tab and Thailand will be left with M60A1. But I guess it's not much a problem with the ZTZ-69 still there.

Too much. You're not getting an entire tank tab in prototype form, I'm afraid. Thailand's tanks will be poor because that is not where Thailand's strength lies.

OK. After all, Thailand's main strength are supposed to be its infantry and recon tab. Maybe vehicle as well.

I'm pretty bored of units with exactly the same loadout over and over. Honestly I think you could dispense with these guys and get past on Thahan Pranh, Pol Sum Ying and Seals.

OK

I really do hope these are Cat-C because they seem to be Thailand's only source of not-crap AT pre 1990s.

They will be available to Cat-C.

It's just a thermal sight mate, nothing exceptional about it. Good optics, like the rest of the recon tanks, maybe Very Good because it is a nice thermal sight. Speaking of which, you might want to move either the Chaffee or Walker Bulldog in here.

Will be nerfed in the next update to the list. I could move the Chaffee here. Thailand operated barely 20 of them. The Walker Bulldog is to important for Thailand as it represents a decent chunk of Thailand's total armored strength.

They seem a bit redundant with the much more interesting Thahan Pranh.

Yeah.

I can't help but notice that Thailand is desperately short on recon vehicles. I'd definitely add a jeep and I'd think about what else was used by reconnaissance units.

Damn! I forgot about them. Recon variants of the M151 and Humvees will be added in the next update.

Bahahahahaha! Oh, very definitely. 40% acc is wayyy to high though, look closer to 20%.

Will be nerfed to 30% or 25%. I will also added Type-97 hull-mounted MG to it in the next update.

Yup, this is the sort of thing that can go in the recon tab. Good optics, pretty cheap, like a cut-rate HVMS.

Will be moved in the next edit

I remember when France had these in the recon tab. They're no damn use in the vehicle tab so I'd consider moving it over.

It's suppose to be the bog standard RR jeep. Everyone both BLUFOR and REDFOR have them.


Did these ever get other weapons like the American ones already in game? More fodder for the recon tab!

There are variants with 81mm mortar and 90mm Main gun in RTA service. The RTAF Aalto operate Condor APC abut I'll have to check the date.

Going heavy on the recon transports and then having three cards of Thahan Pranh might be an interesting way of fleshing out recon without adding too many vehicles that are patently useless in the 35% of Thailand that's forested

The ACAV were intended to be a recon APC in the first place.

Hang on, if the Chinese APCs are prototype should the mortar carriers based on them be too?

The Type-85 would be de-prototyped. After all, Thailand isn't the only operator of the Type-85. Myanmar and Bangladesh operated them as well.

And if the APCs are prototype then surely the requirement for an upgrade is beyond the timeframe too?

As I said, the Type-85 will be de-prototyped. Thailand received its first Type-85 in 1987 and the RSP-15t was developed in the late 80s-early/mid 90s so it will still be a prototype.

What's a Haopha-1 and how is it different to all of the other rockets in game? I can't find anything on it in English.

Full document coming on the Haopha.

Delivery on schedule in 1997 then? I don't think it's needed with the Bell 412.

It's OOTF as well so I'll drop it as well.

This might need a different loadout...

Any suggestions?

...because this is far beyond timeframe.

OK

Never heard of Thai operation of the GPU-5/A before but I wish I had. I'd nerf the accuracy because of the problems with the pod shaking on the pylon that the F-16s had in the Gulf War. Still, a VERY interesting option.

I'd nerf it 20% but it feels a little to inaccurate. Maybe 25%.

It's probably worth changing this to being armed with an M61 Vulcan, 3 AIM-9Ls and 3 AIM-9Ls. It looks like a stupid distinction but it means it'll fire twice as fast in game and be a bit less crap.

Yeah.

I assume you mean the Mk.83, which is 454kg, rather then the Mk.82, which is only 227kg.

Yes

Were there no Thai F-16Bs supplied in Naresuans I and II? How was the conversion training done?

If F-16.net is to be believed. Thailand received 4 F-16B on Peace Naresuan I in 1988, 6 more from Peace Naresuan-III in 1995. There're no F-16B delivered in Peace Naresuan II.


Yeah, 1998 and a totally new type of aircraft isn't happening.
I realize I'm shooting down all of your ideas for fighters here and I do agree that Thailand needs something better than an F-16 knifefighter so I think the F-20 would be the best bet for inclusion. It's an upgrade withing timeframe and the 2x Sparrow, 4x Sidewinder armament doesn't make it feel like an ass-pull top tier ASF from what is otherwise a pretty mediocre air force.

I think a Tigershark would be a decent choice for Thailand. Back then the RTAF were really interested in the Tigershark as it's at least better than the F-16/79 on offer back then.

I've been very critical here, which I'm sorry to do, but I definitely see some potential and I want this proposal to reach it! Thailand is too similar to South Korea to be very useful in Blue Dragons, with only a handful of nice-to-have units, but I could see it as a major part of a Blue South-East Asia coalition with Singapore, Malaysia, the Phillipines and maybe Taiwan. It'll be a lot of work but a pair of South-East Asian coalitions would be quite a lot of fun in game, I think.

No problem. The problem with SEA coalition is that, many nations lack necessary equipment to fill the lineup. Maybe a coalition with Singapore where Singapore provide the AFV, AA, Helicopter and aircraft while Thailand provide armor, infantry and artillery.]
Last edited by phuri45 on Mon 9 Jan 2017 15:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Non included Nation] Thailand

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 4 Jan 2017 19:01

Spoiler : Neatening continues :
phuri45 wrote:The RPS was supposed to completely replaced every other service weapons as standard issue weapons for the RTA but the first unit to tested them were Special Forces and Border Units so that would make sense. In reality, the RPS-001's fire rate is 620 RPM. But same can be said for many assault rifles and MG with fire rates lower than IRL.

I'd probably stick to giving them to those units then. I'd like to give them better stats though since they are a modern rifle.

I expect five men team to all drag the M40 on wheeled mount and deploy it. But that would open a new arguments for the B-40 and other heavy RR so I might have to reconsider.

Start the arguments, IMO. We've got the Pjpv 1110 on Norrlandsjagare so I think the cat is already out of the bag on giant RRs. If this means that China can get an HJ-8 team, fine, Red Dragons will need the buff with the might of Thailand bearing down on them!

The HN-5 deal were more of a gesture of friendship between China and Thailand. The thing came with its price halved. Thailand back then desperately needed MANPADS and for some unknown reason we didn't asks the US for Stinger when they're willing to sell us F-16.

Politicised procurement processes, yay! Because I'm stupid and didn't check the armoury and looked at your two 10 point MANPADS units I assumed that the Redeye and HN-5B have identical stats, which they don't, so HN-5B should be kept. The A version is too crap to bother with though.

Actually, I would prefer them keeping the RPS. They're some of the first testers of RPS-001 after all.

That's fair enough. What I'd do is pick two units, one to have the base RPS and one to have the Carbine one. It's not worth prototyping either, not considering the long development cycle of the rifle and the fact you're only going to be using a few hundred.

The Ror Dor. Which I myself is a member of. Never operate any weapons from the communist bloc. But Thailand do have some WW2-era Type-11 and Type-96/99 MG Ex-IJA stock lying around. Maybe give them to the Ror Dor'80. Ror Dor also used Garand, M1 Carbine, earliest-M16 so I picked the oldest of the bunch which is the Type-66.

Fair enough. My point was more that Pak Tong Chai would have to be a militia squad so they'd be redundant. Ror Dor '80 getting an old Japanese MG would turn them into an IJA reenactor squad similar to the Czech militia so I like that idea.

It was my own fault for not checking the number first. For other equipment. Thai marines do operate a decent number of Carl Gustav (Both M2 and M3), FN MAG, Armburst, M47 Dragon and Super Dragon.

Yeah, definitely give them CG M2s. I'd be tempted not to include the '95 variant because they'd just be like 15 man Suranari.

A thought about infantry redundancy: How widespread was the HK-33? Could it be justified on, say, the Thahan Rab Bao units?

May I ask why the Redeye is superior to the HN-5B? The HN-5 is more accurate with the same range.

Yeah, sorry, I'm stupid. HN-5B Humvee should stay.

The problem is that, all M60A3 in Thai service are TTS. I must moved the whole units to Recon tab and Thailand will be left with M60A1. But I guess it's not much a problem with the ZTZ-69 still there.

The rule is that nothing gets better than Medium optics outside of the recon tab, so that recon units can keep their role. Indeed, I'm pretty sure that the current US M60A3 represents the TTS one because it has Medium optics itself. There's nothing to stop you from having the M60A3 TTS in the tank tab and the M60A3 TTS Lādtrawen (Is that the right word? It looks like Welsh!) in the Recon tab, aside from them both being prototypes. As such, I'd stick to the recon one and the ZTZ series.

It's suppose to be the bog standard RR jeep. Everyone both BLUFOR and REDFOR have them.

I know everyone has them but they're still rubbish. It was just a thought though, the Cadillacs and the jeeps will cover the recon tab's low end just fine.

There are variants with 81mm mortar and 90mm Main gun in RTA service. The RTAF Aalto operate Condor APC abut I'll have to check the date.

Well, definitely include the wheeled mortar in the support section if it's pre 1991, that's a good unit. The 90mm one (I assume using the same Cockerill/Cadillac turret as the M113) could be in either recon or vehicle depending on how you feel.

As I said, the Type-85 will be de-prototyped. Thailand received its first Type-85 in 1987 and the RSP-15t was developed in the late 80s-early/mid 90s so it will still be a prototype.

Fair enough, that makes sense to me. Did the Type-85s have thermal vision equipment that justifies the medium optics or is it another system? I'm definitely starting to see Thailand's recon strategy of having a lot of units with decent optics but nothing exceptional, which I think will be popular.

Any suggestions?

Well, honestly I had a look and they seem pretty crap. 10% ECM, no missiles better than an AIM-9P-4 according to C:MANO. Since it's a prototype and bad I think maybe not including it and then saying to Eugen "Hey, we had no carriers in timeframe so our Marines need access to the normal air tab" is the best plan. The same applies to the A-7 in slightly less force.

If F-16.net is to be believed. Thailand received 4 F-16B on Peace Naresuan I in 1988, 6 more from Peace Naresuan-III in 1995. There're no F-16B delivered in Peace Naresuan II.

I just mosied on over to F-16.net and, well, Thailand shouldn't have a bad air tab at all! I'd propose the following:
  • A-37B as you have it
  • All of the Northrop Fighters as you have them except the Tigris, because it's time-travelling, and the F-5C, which will have to relinguish the bombs because when you put bombs and rockets on an aircraft in Wargame it tries to fire them all at the same time and then derps out.
  • F-16A Peace Naresuan I: Multiple Sidewinders
  • F-16B PN I: LGBs
  • F-16A PN II: 4x Mk.84 and reduced fuel load
  • F-16A PN III: Proto, 2x AMRAAMs (The 15OCUs that Thailand got were fitted For But Not With AMRAAM)

I think a Tigershark would be a decent choice for Thailand. Back then the RTAF were really interested in the Tigershark as it's at least better than the F-16/79 on offer back then.

Yeah, it's almost a Cat-B prototype fighter. If it's decided that the Peace Naresuan III is a step too far then maybe it should get in instead.

No problem. The problem with SEA coalition is that, many nations lack necessary equipment to fill the lineup. Maybe a coalition with Singapore where Singapore provide the AFV, AA, Helicopter and aircraft while Thailand provide armor, infantry and artillery.

Yeah, you'd almost have to ANZAC some nations together. ANZAC could be part of the Sinhalese-Thai coalition too, with Australia's regional defence commitments and links in the area. On the Red side of the SEA expansion, however, we have Vietnam and Indonesia desperately trying to pull Cambodia, Laos and Burma's dead weights. Actually, didn't they all hate each other because they're the Wrong Kind of Totalitarians?

It's a bit of a shame for Thailand that the cut off is where it is. You guys seem to have really stepped up on the procurement between 1991 and 2000. Apart from shit Chinese MANPADS :lol:.


Edit: Spoilered
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Re: [Non included Nation] Thailand

Postby Mike » Wed 4 Jan 2017 21:06

You guys really should use spoilers. :lol:

Also Ladyboys '90 when?
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Re: [Non included Nation] Thailand

Postby phuri45 » Thu 5 Jan 2017 16:33

Spoiler : :
Start the arguments, IMO. We've got the Pjpv 1110 on Norrlandsjagare so I think the cat is already out of the bag on giant RRs. If this means that China can get an HJ-8 team, fine, Red Dragons will need the buff with the might of Thailand bearing down on them!

I am a big Chinese/NK fan myself so I guess we can have a patch that rescued China and North Korea with new units that can help them.

Yeah, definitely give them CG M2s. I'd be tempted not to include the '95 variant because they'd just be like 15 man Suranari.

But then the RTMC wouldn't have the AAV-7A1 and stuck with th crappy LVT because the AAV only arrive in 1992.

A thought about infantry redundancy: How widespread was the HK-33? Could it be justified on, say, the Thahan Rab Bao units?

The HK-33 are used by Ror Dor, Military Police, Air Base Security Personal but the main regular infantry use M16.

The rule is that nothing gets better than Medium optics outside of the recon tab, so that recon units can keep their role. Indeed, I'm pretty sure that the current US M60A3 represents the TTS one because it has Medium optics itself. There's nothing to stop you from having the M60A3 TTS in the tank tab and the M60A3 TTS Lādtrawen (Is that the right word? It looks like Welsh!) in the Recon tab, aside from them both being prototypes. As such, I'd stick to the recon one and the ZTZ series.

That would be a good solution. M60A3 will be nerfed to medium optics and yes, Lādtrawen is the right word for recon.

Fair enough, that makes sense to me. Did the Type-85s have thermal vision equipment that justifies the medium optics or is it another system? I'm definitely starting to see Thailand's recon strategy of having a lot of units with decent optics but nothing exceptional, which I think will be popular.

I think the Type-85 have additional periscope and we upgraded them with Western optics to help in the country's jungle terrain but no actual document ever detailed what kind of upgrade went into our Type-85.

Well, honestly I had a look and they seem pretty crap. 10% ECM, no missiles better than an AIM-9P-4 according to C:MANO. Since it's a prototype and bad I think maybe not including it and then saying to Eugen "Hey, we had no carriers in timeframe so our Marines need access to the normal air tab" is the best plan. The same applies to the A-7 in slightly less force.

Fair enough, as the Chakri Naruebet is nothing but a massive tumor on the navy's budget. The A-7 however, were ground based, operating from U-Tapao airbase in Sattahip for naval patrol and ground attack. I'd smash the Harrier but prefer to keep the A-7 alive as they are the plane that form the bulk of the RTN Air Arms.

[*]F-16A PN III: Proto, 2x AMRAAMs (The 15OCUs that Thailand got were fitted For But Not With AMRAAM)

Thailands first AMRAAM was delivered in 2002 but I guess in a hotter Cold War, US would need all its Asian allies and give Thailand a favor.

Yeah, it's almost a Cat-B prototype fighter. If it's decided that the Peace Naresuan III is a step too far then maybe it should get in instead.

The Peace Naresuan III can make it in and left the Tigershark as a mid-tier fighter for Thailand. Give it 2 AIM-7M and 4 AIM-9L and you got a decent jet. 20-30% ECM.

Yeah, you'd almost have to ANZAC some nations together. ANZAC could be part of the Singaporean-Thai coalition too, with Australia's regional defence commitments and links in the area. On the Red side of the SEA expansion, however, we have Vietnam and Indonesia desperately trying to pull Cambodia, Laos and Burma's dead weights. Actually, didn't they all hate each other because they're the Wrong Kind of Totalitarians?

Laos is actually on a better term with Vietnam, despite being more ethnically close to Thailand due to bloody history we shared, Myanmar, Thailand sworn historical enemy, is a military junta trying to hold the country together against hundreds of ethnic groups trying to form their own nation. They actually have a decent army, better than Indonesia in hardware. Laos once smashed us in the face during the Thai-Laotian Border War of 1987 where despite us manage to force Laos to the negotiations. Casualties ratio highly favored the Laotian, Cambodia's a powder keg between Thailand and Vietnam with both side supporting their ally (We went as far as supporting the damn Khmer Rouge because fuck Vietnam.)

It's a bit of a shame for Thailand that the cut off is where it is. You guys seem to have really stepped up on the procurement between 1991 and 2000. Apart from shit Chinese MANPADS :lol:.

Those are lessons learned during the Thai-Laotian Border War of 1987. Because being defeated by Laos in a fight is absolutely embarrassing and it pointed out all of the RTA's weaknesses (lack of SPG, Little to no MANPADS, Lack of coordination between Army, Thahan Pranh and Air Force. Etc.)
Last edited by phuri45 on Mon 9 Jan 2017 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Non included Nation] Thailand

Postby phuri45 » Thu 5 Jan 2017 16:35

Mike wrote:You guys really should use spoilers. :lol:

Also Ladyboys '90 when?

I seems to have problem using spoilers and embedding pictures.


Also on the ladyboys, of course I can add them. But they will auto-stunned RED infantry and keep BLU calm just by their presence. :lol:
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Re: [Non included Nation] Thailand

Postby Mike » Thu 5 Jan 2017 19:26

phuri45 wrote:
Mike wrote:You guys really should use spoilers. :lol:

Also Ladyboys '90 when?

I seems to have problem using spoilers and embedding pictures.


Also on the ladyboys, of course I can add them. But they will auto-stunned RED infantry and keep BLU calm just by their presence. :lol:



Here's how you use the spoilers.

Spoiler : :
Spoiler contents.
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Re: [Non included Nation] Thailand

Postby FrangibleCover » Thu 5 Jan 2017 21:06

Spoiler : Have it your way Mike :
phuri45 wrote:But then the RTMC wouldn't have the AAV-7A1 and stuck with th crappy LVT because the AAV only arrive in 1992.

Nah, they can still come in Amtracs in Cat-A only while being a Cat-C squad. A lot of units do that.

The HK-33 are used by Ror Dor, Military Police, Air Base Security Personal but the main regular infantry use M16.

Hmm, that's given me an idea. Quite a while ago now it was proposed that the West German Fliegerfaust squad with the Redeye should be reroled into Air Base Security personnel with G3s, a Redeye and an MG3. I seem to remember this was justified by the fact that in the event of WW3 kicking off it was believed that the Warsaw Pact intended to Tactically Outplay some of the NATO airbases in Germany and try to neutralise others with Spetsnaz so the German Security units were uncommonly well trained. If Thailand can find a similar justification (Being surrounded by enemy countries that like light infantry tactics, for instance) then an Airbase Defence Unit with HK-33s, a HN-5B and an M60 or MAG would help compensate for the otherwise shitty MANPADS situation.

I think the Type-85 have additional periscope and we upgraded them with Western optics to help in the country's jungle terrain but no actual document ever detailed what kind of upgrade went into our Type-85.

Maybe medium optics then, some things get medium optics without Thermals because reasons. Keep it in, justify that it had an optical upgrade so it must be better than the Chinese ones. I think it's flavoursome.

Fair enough, as the Chakri Naruebet is nothing but a massive tumor on the navy's budget. The A-7 however, were ground based, operating from U-Tapao airbase in Sattahip for naval patrol and ground attack. I'd smash the Harrier but prefer to keep the A-7 alive as they are the plane that form the bulk of the RTN Air Arms.

Intro to service 1996 though. Thailand has a lot of prototypes already and it can't afford to waste community goodwill (The currency in which OOTF units are purchased, practically) on systems that aren't top of the line. Also, as I say, if you let slip that you have a Fleet Air Arm then your Marine deck gets hit with the nerfbat :lol:.

Thailands first AMRAAM was delivered in 2002 but I guess in a hotter Cold War, US would need all its Asian allies and give Thailand a favor.

IIRC the rule was that the US's allies in SEA don't get F&F MRAAMs until one of the US's enemies (ahem, Non Partner Nations) do. Then the shipment arrives pretty sharpish. I think so long as one of the Redfor states gets F&F MRAAMs either Thailand, Malaysia or Singapore should. If not, Tigershark to the Rescue!

Laos is actually on a better term with Vietnam, despite being more ethnically close to Thailand due to bloody history we shared, Myanmar, Thailand sworn historical enemy, is a military junta trying to hold the country together against hundreds of ethnic groups trying to form their own nation. They actually have a decent army, better than Indonesia in hardware. Laos once smashed us in the face during the Thai-Laotian Border War of 1987 where despite us manage to force Laos to the negotiations. Casualties ratio highly favored the Laotian, Cambodia's a powder keg between Thailand and Vietnam with both side supporting their ally (We went as far as supporting the damn Khmer Rouge because fuck Vietnam.)

So: Thailand, Malaysia Singapore and maybe ANZAC in the Malay-Peninsula-and-some-other-bits-Bros coalition; Laos, Myanmar, Vietnam and maybe Indonesia in the Fuck-Everyone-With-Territory-On-The-Malay-Peninsula-Corps? Maybe fold Khmer Rouge forces into Thailand and Kampuchean forces into Vietnam or Laos if that's not going to produce too much butthurt. Is that stepping across any Ethno-Geo-Political lines?

defeated by Laos

I shouldn't worry about that. 90% of Redfor had been defeated by themselves by 1992! :lol:

I took a swing through SIPRI although it's possible I'm not telling you anything new:
Thailand got static ADATS so that's a possible prototype.
Python 3 was delivered in 1990, as was Litening so that's nice.
Aspide is 1986-88.
A bunch of M48A5s were delivered in 1990 so if you can find a new name for them you can get magic updated ammunition for the later intro date.

Mike wrote:Here's how you use the spoilers.

Happy?
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[Non-included Nation] Hungary - Spreadsheet
[Non-included Nation] Pakistan

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