[Non-included Nation] Albania

Comrade_Bane
First Sergeant
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed 16 Dec 2015 23:28
Contact:

[Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Comrade_Bane » Mon 6 Feb 2017 06:03

Yes that's right... not a troll post too!!!

Need help in getting a list together for Albania. Primarily just to see how good we are as a community at researching things. Collaborative effort, so feel free to contribute.

How would an Albanian armory look? Aside from T-55s, BRDMs, Type 59s, and others... what would they have. I imagine them being a nation heavily focused on Ambushed oriented Infantry and Recon to emulate their peoples army and peoples war doctrines.



Need:

Logistics

Infantry

Tanks

Support

Recon

Vehicles

Helo

Aircraft


Feel free to contribute and post any ideas for us to debate an discuss.

User avatar
MARDER
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri 20 Jul 2012 00:42
Contact:

Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby MARDER » Mon 6 Feb 2017 19:45

Comrade_Bane wrote:Yes that's right... not a troll post too!!!

Need help in getting a list together for Albania. Primarily just to see how good we are as a community at researching things. Collaborative effort, so feel free to contribute.

How would an Albanian armory look? Aside from T-55s, BRDMs, Type 59s, and others... what would they have. I imagine them being a nation heavily focused on Ambushed oriented Infantry and Recon to emulate their peoples army and peoples war doctrines.



Need:

Logistics

Infantry

Tanks

Support

Recon

Vehicles

Helo

Aircraft


Feel free to contribute and post any ideas for us to debate an discuss.


Wats a Albania?

User avatar
hansbroger
Lieutenant General
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun 28 Jul 2013 03:45
Contact:

Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby hansbroger » Mon 6 Feb 2017 23:56

Albania likely doesn't have enough to be a standalone in RD (It could conceivably hold its own in say EE or ALB, especially with ALB's CatC/B rules.) If anything it would be a low end flavoring for a coalition, for example with the PRC, supplying something like special infantry or other peripheral capabilities to a more comprehensively capable but perhaps inflexible major nation. Really not a ton to go off of with Albania as a standalone nation, they probably would have a tough time holding their own in CatB.

Air tab for example is likely to be very much like the DPRK's with potentially less variety and few if any modern types. The air tab likely would consist of:
Fighter/Attack/Fighter-Bomber
MiG-15Bis
Image
F-5
Image
MiG-19PM (AA-1 capable MiG-19 PM later traded to PRC for F-6)
Image
F-6 (Possibly PL-2 capable)
Image
F-7 (MiG-21PF performance level, PL-2/5)
Image

Bomber
One Il-28
Image
Which they then traded for... One H-5
Image
So Albania can operate both!
Projectnordic in game! will likely see you on pact/red dragons/french!
Image

User avatar
Partibrejker
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun 22 Feb 2015 22:14
Location: Elektronska Industrija, Yugoslavia
Contact:

Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Partibrejker » Tue 7 Feb 2017 02:11

Albania would be ultra degraded China.

Though it could provide inspiration for the new wg, since, as it was made public couple of years back, Albania was actually planning an invasion on Yugoslavia during 70s, which would occur the moment Tito died. The sole reason why it did not happen is because Chine cut the supply of spare parts for, well almost everything Chinese they had, which is a l-o-t.
Spoiler : :

Comrade_Bane
First Sergeant
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed 16 Dec 2015 23:28
Contact:

Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Comrade_Bane » Tue 7 Feb 2017 02:45

hansbroger wrote:Albania likely doesn't have enough to be a standalone in RD (It could conceivably hold its own in say EE or ALB, especially with ALB's CatC/B rules.) If anything it would be a low end flavoring for a coalition, for example with the PRC, supplying something like special infantry or other peripheral capabilities to a more comprehensively capable but perhaps inflexible major nation. Really not a ton to go off of with Albania as a standalone nation, they probably would have a tough time holding their own in CatB.

Air tab for example is likely to be very much like the DPRK's with potentially less variety and few if any modern types. The air tab likely would consist of:
Fighter/Attack/Fighter-Bomber
MiG-15Bis
Image
F-5
Image
MiG-19PM (AA-1 capable MiG-19 PM later traded to PRC for F-6)
Image
F-6 (Possibly PL-2 capable)
Image
F-7 (MiG-21PF performance level, PL-2/5)
Image

Bomber
One Il-28
Image
Which they then traded for... One H-5
Image
So Albania can operate both!


Awesome lookup

I think i future games, the push towards asymmetry should be followed. Not all nations should be able to compete at a high level. To add "FLAVOUR" Albania would likely be a nation that relied heavily on stealthy and powerful ambush oriented Recon Infantry. Maybe Their troops receive a stealth and movement speed bonus of some sort.

In terms of Air power, it seems Albania should/would be a Close Air support and Interceptor oriented Air force.

Partibrejker wrote:Albania would be ultra degraded China.

Though it could provide inspiration for the new wg, since, as it was made public couple of years back, Albania was actually planning an invasion on Yugoslavia during 70s, which would occur the moment Tito died. The sole reason why it did not happen is because Chine cut the supply of spare parts for, well almost everything Chinese they had, which is a l-o-t.


See above...

Also where on earth have you heard/read about any of the invasion part. Would love to know...

User avatar
Partibrejker
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun 22 Feb 2015 22:14
Location: Elektronska Industrija, Yugoslavia
Contact:

Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Partibrejker » Tue 7 Feb 2017 03:52

Comrade_Bane wrote:See above..


yeah I do agree that some flavorish stuff could be produced, but considering what European and World armies are missing that could bring much, much, much more to the table, I think that the country whose most modern tank for the time and now was/is Chinese type 59 cannot compete in Wargame world. Especially if we count in the fact that the only thing that Albania designed and produced from military equipment was the copy of the Kalashnikov. And the bunkers.
Comrade_Bane wrote:
Also where on earth have you heard/read about any of the invasion part. Would love to know...


In 2013 it was originally reported by Artjom Ulunjan, Russian historian specializing in history of communism, he did thorough search and readings of SVR(KGB successor) documents that got officially declassified that were created by KGB findings of the Albanian and Soviet/Russian documents that possessed the records of councils of the politburo of Albanian Workers Party, then it also turned out that Albanian minister of defence during that era Veli Llakaj has confirmed actually that information. Also going in favor that is the fact that Hoxha was recorded saying that Albania is on the edge of the war during border military inspection on 24th of July 1978 (albanian/yugoslavian border) and the fact that in 1975 during Helsinki Acord/Final act Albania was the only European country not to sign the Helsinki Acord/Final act which was resolving the definite borders of countries in Europe.
Spoiler : :

User avatar
Killertomato
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 13616
Joined: Mon 9 Jul 2012 02:46
Contact:

Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Killertomato » Tue 7 Feb 2017 08:33

Glorious individual Albanian bunkers please.

On a serious note... This won't end well for Albania. They were like the anti-Yugoslavia, as they had succeeded in pissing everyone off so badly that nobody sold them anything by the end while simultaneously being too poor to build any of their own advanced military equipment.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

User avatar
HrcAk47
Colonel
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat 3 May 2014 18:00
Contact:

Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby HrcAk47 » Tue 7 Feb 2017 20:10

I have literature on Albanian small arms, however that also ends rather rapidly.

Albania would make sense as a multiplayer map (a lot of bunkers on mountaintops), so there's potential there.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

User avatar
FrangibleCover
Lieutenant
Posts: 1376
Joined: Mon 14 Nov 2016 21:34
Contact:

Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby FrangibleCover » Tue 7 Feb 2017 23:50

In terms of imported weapons, the SIPRI list between 1950 and 1996 takes up 4 pages in Word. That's the smallest one I've seen yet, including only four countries and of those the Czechoslovaks and the East Germans only sold them a handful of Il-14 transports. I realise that SIPRI isn't the greatest source ever but it usually gives you a decent idea of the shape of an armed forces.

Wargame relevant highlights:

From China (nothing delivered between 1978 and 1994, which was a pile of HY-2 coastal defence batteries)
  • MiG-15 trainers
  • J-5 trainers
  • J-6 trainers
  • J-7s (F-7A)
  • A single B-5
  • K-5 (AA-1 Alkali) and PL-2 SRAAMs
  • Type-59s (between 1966 and '75)
  • Z-5s
  • Type-62s
  • YW-531s
From the Soviet Union (nothing delivered post-1961 and even that was a Whiskey)
  • Polikarpov Po-2s
  • MiG-15bis
  • T-34/85s
  • 2x Mi-1
  • A single Il-28
  • Mi-4As
  • BRDM-1s
  • MiG-19s and MiG-19PMs

The good news, I suppose, is that the modelling will be cheap. You can pretty much make the deck in Wargame right now, select Cat-C Red Dragon, ignore the better units and off you go. I'm all for asymmetric capabilities and some nations being unable to compete rather than being given unrealistic capabilities but this deck isn't going to be fun to play with or against. Where's the AA? How do they stop a superheavy? With no wheeled transports or good helicopters how does Albania open? You can throw 0 ECM aircraft at a problem but Albania has so many gaps that you're going to run out of aircraft before the other guy runs out of problems for you.

To conclude: Nah.
[Non-included Nation] Belgium - Spreadsheet
[Non-included Nation] Hungary - Spreadsheet
[Non-included Nation] Pakistan

Comrade_Bane
First Sergeant
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed 16 Dec 2015 23:28
Contact:

Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Comrade_Bane » Sun 12 Feb 2017 19:20

FrangibleCover wrote:The good news, I suppose, is that the modelling will be cheap. You can pretty much make the deck in Wargame right now, select Cat-C Red Dragon, ignore the better units and off you go. I'm all for asymmetric capabilities and some nations being unable to compete rather than being given unrealistic capabilities but this deck isn't going to be fun to play with or against. Where's the AA? How do they stop a superheavy? With no wheeled transports or good helicopters how does Albania open? You can throw 0 ECM aircraft at a problem but Albania has so many gaps that you're going to run out of aircraft before the other guy runs out of problems for you.


Agree... but i still think it could be done if done right.

Specifically on the infantry and Recon Fronts. I would love to hear from any Albanians who have experience or knowledge of the county's military plans and capacity in the 1980s.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: [EUG]MadMat and 11 guests