[Non-included Nation] Albania

Comrade_Bane
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Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Comrade_Bane » Sun 12 Feb 2017 19:23

Partibrejker wrote:In 2013 it was originally reported by Artjom Ulunjan, Russian historian specializing in history of communism, he did thorough search and readings of SVR(KGB successor) documents that got officially declassified that were created by KGB findings of the Albanian and Soviet/Russian documents that possessed the records of councils of the politburo of Albanian Workers Party, then it also turned out that Albanian minister of defence during that era Veli Llakaj has confirmed actually that information. Also going in favor that is the fact that Hoxha was recorded saying that Albania is on the edge of the war during border military inspection on 24th of July 1978 (albanian/yugoslavian border) and the fact that in 1975 during Helsinki Acord/Final act Albania was the only European country not to sign the Helsinki Acord/Final act which was resolving the definite borders of countries in Europe.


Any links or books you could provide on this? I an coming up with snake-eyes...

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FrangibleCover
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Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 12 Feb 2017 20:04

Well, I can't fault your optimism. Here's a list of stuff they had in 1990 (leftmost column):
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... ipment.htm
The Tarasnice is new to me, as is the HJ-73. The handful of ZU-23s could be motorised, I guess. Some of the towed artillery and AA could be mobilised as well, prototype units like the Cuban KS-19 on a T-34 hull. It's damned shaky though.

The National Security section of this report:
http://countrystudies.us/albania/index.htm
could be useful.
Conscript Training wrote:Most conscripts received considerable physical conditioning, drill, and other basic training in school and through the communist youth organization. This foundation allowed the military to move conscripts rapidly into tactical combat training and small unit exercises. Tactical training typically involved preparation for fighting in defensive positions in the mountainous terrain characteristic of the country's interior. It emphasized physical conditioning, employment of light weapons, and the use of minimal amounts of matériel and other support.

To my mind the focus on conditioning implies that Light Infantry training is justifiable but honestly, they're just going to get murdered by tanks anyway. I think we can presume widespread use of the RPG-7 platform but with no domestic industry and no foreign sales it's not going to get any of the half-decent warheads. The Tarasnice is not really an anti-tank weapon in the way it would need to be.
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Mike
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Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Mike » Sun 12 Feb 2017 20:17

Albania or Albaenia?
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Courtesy of KattiValk

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Partibrejker
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Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Partibrejker » Tue 14 Feb 2017 17:56

Comrade_Bane wrote:
Partibrejker wrote:In 2013 it was originally reported by Artjom Ulunjan, Russian historian specializing in history of communism, he did thorough search and readings of SVR(KGB successor) documents that got officially declassified that were created by KGB findings of the Albanian and Soviet/Russian documents that possessed the records of councils of the politburo of Albanian Workers Party, then it also turned out that Albanian minister of defence during that era Veli Llakaj has confirmed actually that information. Also going in favor that is the fact that Hoxha was recorded saying that Albania is on the edge of the war during border military inspection on 24th of July 1978 (albanian/yugoslavian border) and the fact that in 1975 during Helsinki Acord/Final act Albania was the only European country not to sign the Helsinki Acord/Final act which was resolving the definite borders of countries in Europe.


Any links or books you could provide on this? I an coming up with snake-eyes...


That article was published in the January issue of the Universal History Institute of the Russian Academy of Science journal 2013, I have tried sniffing it online but no success, if you want I can ask around with my Russian friends that are professors at Moscow and Belgorod university, maybe I can get some luck if there is an English version, me personally I came familiar with the existence of the article in the summer of 2015, when one of those friends actually taught me that fact, I was surprised as you when I heard it the 1st time. :)

besides that you can find media reports on that russian article from Croatian paper "dnevni" and Serbian "b92", online in English that discuss the article, what is interesting is that Croatian one was the 1st one to inform on the subject, and to give it some sort of legitimacy(aka not disregard them instantly for being "Yugoslavian", especially Serbian), on couple of occasions when they were actually discussing stuff from the past, their writings actually resulted in successful crime prosecutions, after police decided to look them up, so they are not to be disregarded immediatley and the same goes for b92 which are sort of Serbian national phenomena, since their journalists actually managed to change 15 plus laws under influence of their findings and put a shitload of corrupted politicians and businessman into jail,and manage to expose people which were hiding war criminals for ages and expose some war criminals themselves which in the end resulted that some of their journalists actually have police coverage 24/7 due to numerous, numerous death threats over the last two and a half decades.

Also for Enver Hoxha personal hatred for Yugoslavia, you can actually read from his own writings, as this one for example:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/arch ... ugoslavia/
also if you go to
http://www.enverhoxha.ru/
you can find numerous books that actually speak in greater detail about many many aspects of positive and negative sides of Enver hoxha including the hatred and invasion plans, there is also one that specialize on Yugoslavia aka Titoists. like http://www.enverhoxha.ru/Archive_of_boo ... rb_hrv.pdf
hopefully you can find a way to translate it.

As for Helsinki Final Act/Accord, dnevni.hr, jutarnji.hr and b92 articles that you can find via easy google search :)
Spoiler : :

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Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Comrade_Bane » Wed 22 Feb 2017 05:10

Partibrejker wrote:
Comrade_Bane wrote:
Partibrejker wrote:In 2013 it was originally reported by Artjom Ulunjan, Russian historian specializing in history of communism, he did thorough search and readings of SVR(KGB successor) documents that got officially declassified that were created by KGB findings of the Albanian and Soviet/Russian documents that possessed the records of councils of the politburo of Albanian Workers Party, then it also turned out that Albanian minister of defence during that era Veli Llakaj has confirmed actually that information. Also going in favor that is the fact that Hoxha was recorded saying that Albania is on the edge of the war during border military inspection on 24th of July 1978 (albanian/yugoslavian border) and the fact that in 1975 during Helsinki Acord/Final act Albania was the only European country not to sign the Helsinki Acord/Final act which was resolving the definite borders of countries in Europe.


Any links or books you could provide on this? I an coming up with snake-eyes...


That article was published in the January issue of the Universal History Institute of the Russian Academy of Science journal 2013, I have tried sniffing it online but no success, if you want I can ask around with my Russian friends that are professors at Moscow and Belgorod university, maybe I can get some luck if there is an English version, me personally I came familiar with the existence of the article in the summer of 2015, when one of those friends actually taught me that fact, I was surprised as you when I heard it the 1st time. :)

besides that you can find media reports on that russian article from Croatian paper "dnevni" and Serbian "b92", online in English that discuss the article, what is interesting is that Croatian one was the 1st one to inform on the subject, and to give it some sort of legitimacy(aka not disregard them instantly for being "Yugoslavian", especially Serbian), on couple of occasions when they were actually discussing stuff from the past, their writings actually resulted in successful crime prosecutions, after police decided to look them up, so they are not to be disregarded immediatley and the same goes for b92 which are sort of Serbian national phenomena, since their journalists actually managed to change 15 plus laws under influence of their findings and put a shitload of corrupted politicians and businessman into jail,and manage to expose people which were hiding war criminals for ages and expose some war criminals themselves which in the end resulted that some of their journalists actually have police coverage 24/7 due to numerous, numerous death threats over the last two and a half decades.

Also for Enver Hoxha personal hatred for Yugoslavia, you can actually read from his own writings, as this one for example:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/arch ... ugoslavia/
also if you go to
http://www.enverhoxha.ru/
you can find numerous books that actually speak in greater detail about many many aspects of positive and negative sides of Enver hoxha including the hatred and invasion plans, there is also one that specialize on Yugoslavia aka Titoists. like http://www.enverhoxha.ru/Archive_of_boo ... rb_hrv.pdf
hopefully you can find a way to translate it.

As for Helsinki Final Act/Accord, dnevni.hr, jutarnji.hr and b92 articles that you can find via easy google search :)


Hoxha's hatred of... well pretty much everything not Hoxha is and always has been well documented.

However actual plans for Albania to Invade Yugoslavia... that just sounds questionable. Among the reasons was that Yugo would mop the floor with Albania at pretty much any given time in the cold war.

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FrangibleCover
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Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 22 Feb 2017 10:24

Comrade_Bane wrote:Hoxha's hatred of... well pretty much everything not Hoxha is and always has been well documented.

However actual plans for Albania to Invade Yugoslavia... that just sounds questionable. Among the reasons was that Yugo would mop the floor with Albania at pretty much any given time in the cold war.

It's not like he'd have had a better time of it going into Greece. At least if they invade Yugoslavia they're not going to get all of NATO coming at them and the Kosovan Albanians would allow an excuse that you're merely 'liberating oppressed minorities' rather than madly landgrabbing, which is handy for the inevitable fight in the UN. Albania would get creamed in the actual fighting, obviously, but that seems like a strategic assessment too far for Mr. Everyone Gets A Bunker.
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Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby steppewolf » Wed 22 Feb 2017 11:34

We have a joke here about Albanian military...why their submarine get's out of water every few minutes? For the rowers to breathe :D

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Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Comrade_Bane » Thu 23 Feb 2017 02:15

FrangibleCover wrote:It's not like he'd have had a better time of it going into Greece. At least if they invade Yugoslavia they're not going to get all of NATO coming at them and the Kosovan Albanians would allow an excuse that you're merely 'liberating oppressed minorities' rather than madly landgrabbing, which is handy for the inevitable fight in the UN. Albania would get creamed in the actual fighting, obviously, but that seems like a strategic assessment too far for Mr. Everyone Gets A Bunker.


lol... touche'

Still curious to see the info behind it, it just seems too far fetched... even for Hoxha. After all after the Sino-Albanian split he kinda went quiet, and everyone ignored him.

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Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby FrangibleCover » Thu 23 Feb 2017 02:58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96-nA0APRVQ
God alone knows why I'm still working on this.

0:11 - Some sort of mountain gun looking thing. I think Albania will be short on SP artillery so artillery that could theoretically be carried by a 10 man squad will have to do. There's a commando mortar in a later picture too.

0:30 - Scout bikes, I would not be surprised if that was a pintle mounted MG42 as well :lol:

0:41 - Looks like an MRL on the back of a truck. If it were a towed mount would it be that high and would it be firing over the side of its axles like that?

Small arms I could pick out (I'm bad at this sort of stuff though)
  • AK pattern rifle
  • RPD
  • PPSh-43
  • Might be an SVT-40 next to the RPD gunner at 1:03
  • A lot of semi-automatic rifles

The point I was looking for was AT weapons though and I'm still seeing nothing. They do have RPG-7s now and goodness only knows why you would buy RPGs while you join NATO so I'm assuming that they're a legacy system.
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Re: [Non-included Nation] Albania

Postby Comrade_Bane » Sat 25 Feb 2017 01:34

FrangibleCover wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96-nA0APRVQ
God alone knows why I'm still working on this.

0:11 - Some sort of mountain gun looking thing. I think Albania will be short on SP artillery so artillery that could theoretically be carried by a 10 man squad will have to do. There's a commando mortar in a later picture too.

0:30 - Scout bikes, I would not be surprised if that was a pintle mounted MG42 as well :lol:

0:41 - Looks like an MRL on the back of a truck. If it were a towed mount would it be that high and would it be firing over the side of its axles like that?

Small arms I could pick out (I'm bad at this sort of stuff though)
  • AK pattern rifle
  • RPD
  • PPSh-43
  • Might be an SVT-40 next to the RPD gunner at 1:03
  • A lot of semi-automatic rifles

The point I was looking for was AT weapons though and I'm still seeing nothing. They do have RPG-7s now and goodness only knows why you would buy RPGs while you join NATO so I'm assuming that they're a legacy system.


because you love a good challenge... and what you turned up is actually very helpful.

If anything Albania looks to be a motorized Infantry and recon centered nation in the context of Wargame.

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