[Non-Include Nations] Hungary

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spike52656
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[Non-Include Nations] Hungary

Postby spike52656 » Sat 18 Feb 2017 03:21

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Please note that this is not a request thread. Whilst I would like Hungary to be in the game, I understand that Eugen probably has better things to spend their time with. Still, if they did, I wouldn't mind :D

Anyways, here is the beginning of my attempt at creating a Hungarian faction viable for Wargame. With Romania and Bulgaria having been considered, this leaves Hungary as the only member of the Warsaw Pact which does not have a serious concept. I have begun to gather ideas as to what Hungary's units could be, as well as the faction's focus.

I have started an initial spreadsheet here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

As you may notice, it is completely barebones, with few units and not a lot of elaboration. I intend to fully flesh it out later; the spreadsheet in its current state was created in 10 minutes so I had a place to start with. I would like to request user input in its design.

Since I do not have all of the time in the world on my hands, I would appreciate any assistance I can get, especially with the gathering of historical documents, as well as with the infantry portion.

I intend for this thread to serve as a central hub for work on the project.

If my English is not the best, please excuse me as it is not my first language.

Thank you.
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Re: [Non-Include Nations] Hungary

Postby Mike » Sat 18 Feb 2017 06:21

Actually, I think there is already a thread on Hungry.
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Re: [Non-Include Nations] Hungary

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 18 Feb 2017 12:37

Well, the first thing to do is ring up the resident Hungarian expert
molnibalage wrote:ping


Alright then, taken from SIPRI, here's some other stuff that Hungary might add to Romania/Bulgaria as a junior third coalition member:

    Image
  • The Ka-26 as a... don't actually know. It's like a tiny Skycrane. The Hungarian ones look like passenger transports though, so it's an Mi-2 transport equivalent.
  • Apparently some Czechoslovak BRM-1Ks
  • L-29 Delfins, if that's what you're into
  • Mi-2s, probably for use as a recon helicopter
  • More Mi-24Vs that can carry a different loadout to the Bulgarian ones
  • Strela-3s as an intermediate capability between the Strela-2Ms and the Igla/CA-94

And from the half-remembered fact that the OT-65 is originally Hungarian and English Wiki:
  • FÚG - An OT-65
  • PSZH - A BRDM-2 statclone
  • ZPK-PSZH - CV variant
  • OPK-PSZH - A Very Good optics wheeled recon with an LRF in the place of the KPVT

With regards to your list, I'm not sure what a BTR-20 is and the JAS-39 is definitely not happening in the Wargame universe. Perhaps the boring but realistic MiG-29Ss that were delivered as payment of Russian debt instead, or just accept that Hungary isn't going to have a strong fighter and will have to rely on its realistic heavy SAM. You didn't choose the Krug life, the Krug life chose you.

Mike wrote:Actually, I think there is already a thread on Hungry.

I couldn't find one in the forum search.
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Re: [Non-Include Nations] Hungary

Postby molnibalage » Sat 18 Feb 2017 14:18

FrangibleCover wrote:...




The Ka-26 as a... don't actually know. It's like a tiny Skycrane. The Hungarian ones look like passenger transports though, so it's an Mi-2 transport equivalent.

Was used only for medical transport, VIP transport or courier role.

Apparently some Czechoslovak BRM-1Ks

I do not know.

L-29 Delfins, if that's what you're into

Was outdated in '80s and never would be used in combat.

Mi-2s, probably for use as a recon helicopter

Yes.

More Mi-24Vs that can carry a different loadout to the Bulgarian ones

I'm not sure the exact variants and time I have to dig up. As I can recall any Mi-24 with 30 mm gun arrived only collapse of PACT, we got for free from Germany lots of V (?) variant with 30 mm gun but only 4 of them ever flew in Hungary.

Strela-3s as an intermediate capability between the Strela-2Ms and the Igla/CA-94[/list]

Hungary never bougth Strela-3 as well as most of PACT. Most of PACT countries skipped the Strela-3 and bougth Igla-1. Strela-3 was made mostly of Soviet patroned or any countries who wished to buy a but better MANPAD than Strela-2.

And from the half-remembered fact that the OT-65 is originally Hungarian and English Wiki:
FÚG - An OT-65
PSZH - A BRDM-2 statclone
ZPK-PSZH - CV variant
OPK-PSZH - A Very Good optics wheeled recon with an LRF in the place of the KPVT

I'm not good in APC line but Hungary never has any special or powerful stuff.

With regards to your list, I'm not sure what a BTR-20 is and the JAS-39 is definitely not happening in the Wargame universe.

Exactly.

Perhaps the boring but realistic MiG-29Ss that were delivered as payment of Russian debt instead, or just accept that Hungary isn't going to have a strong fighter and will have to rely on its realistic heavy SAM.

Hungary got 28 MiG-29 9.12 (nominal value was 800 million USD in 1993). Hungary bougth even from MiG-23 only the MF (not the better ML) and only a sq. 12 airframes

All airframes with their fate flight hours and remaining flight hours at end of service. We bougth one UB replecmant because of the loss.
http://www.simonrobert.hu/02-repulok/Ga ... zazad.html

You didn't choose the Krug life, the Krug life chose you.

As I have tons of times WG totally screwed the AD modeling. Neva was used instead Krug which is totally idiotic. All NSWP countries in WG currently had the Krug (SA-4) which was the army and font level SAM, as well as everybody had Kub (SA-6), and only Hungary did not had Osa. Kub is totally under modeled, it should be the best long range red SAM except Buks. (SA-11).

Hungary had crap tanks, the best was the export variant of T-72, the T-72M1. Nope, in this case M1 does not mean moderinzed. It was weaker this than USSR T-72A. Best T-55 was the AM but HUN never bought the Bastion.

To make playable HUN would make just as fantasy nations as YUG or all other NSWP which from my aspect it means pointless. You cannot make any unique unit comparing to current NSWP or YUG.

Rather adding new content the currentd DB should be fixed, are tons of idiotic things even today 3 years after the beta. Kubs, totally laughable USA air tab, 5HE SR IR AAM issues, etc.

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Re: [Non-Include Nations] Hungary

Postby molnibalage » Sat 18 Feb 2017 14:45

1978 4x Mi-24D
1980 4x16 Mi-24D
1985 10x Mi-24D, 10x Mi-24V

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Re: [Non-Include Nations] Hungary

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 18 Feb 2017 15:41

molnibalage wrote:
The Ka-26 as a... don't actually know. It's like a tiny Skycrane. The Hungarian ones look like passenger transports though, so it's an Mi-2 transport equivalent.

Was used only for medical transport, VIP transport or courier role.

Hmm. It's wasted as a CV helicopter and it is highly unique. How many people could you get in the back? It could work as a small team transport like the Yugo transport Gazelle.

L-29 Delfins, if that's what you're into

Was outdated in '80s and never would be used in combat.

Absolutely, but they are an option if there's a loadout they need to truck.

Strela-3s as an intermediate capability between the Strela-2Ms and the Igla/CA-94[/list]

Hungary never bougth Strela-3 as well as most of PACT. Most of PACT countries skipped the Strela-3 and bougth Igla-1. Strela-3 was made mostly of Soviet patroned or any countries who wished to buy a but better MANPAD than Strela-2.

Eh, SIPRI screws up. That's why I try to state when I'm using it for stuff like this.

And from the half-remembered fact that the OT-65 is originally Hungarian and English Wiki:
FÚG - An OT-65
PSZH - A BRDM-2 statclone
ZPK-PSZH - CV variant
OPK-PSZH - A Very Good optics wheeled recon with an LRF in the place of the KPVT

I'm not good in APC line but Hungary never has any special or powerful stuff.

That's needlessly pessimistic. None of that is particularly good or different but it is a special Hungarian thing and I don't think anyone has ever operated something with the stats the OPK one would have.

Perhaps the boring but realistic MiG-29Ss that were delivered as payment of Russian debt instead, or just accept that Hungary isn't going to have a strong fighter and will have to rely on its realistic heavy SAM.

Hungary got 28 MiG-29 9.12 (nominal value was 800 million USD in 1993). Hungary bougth even from MiG-23 only the MF (not the better ML) and only a sq. 12 airframes

All airframes with their fate flight hours and remaining flight hours at end of service. We bougth one UB replecmant because of the loss.
http://www.simonrobert.hu/02-repulok/Ga ... zazad.html

That's a cool site. The thing is that in coalition terms that's fine, the MF can cover the cheap crap WVR fighter role and that'll free up something else to do something else. More is more and if 90% of the models are free then it only remains to figure out how the coalition all fits together.

You didn't choose the Krug life, the Krug life chose you.

As I have tons of times WG totally screwed the AD modeling. Neva was used instead Krug which is totally idiotic. All NSWP countries in WG currently had the Krug (SA-4) which was the army and font level SAM, as well as everybody had Kub (SA-6), and only Hungary did not had Osa. Kub is totally under modeled, it should be the best long range red SAM except Buks. (SA-11).

Hungary had crap tanks, the best was the export variant of T-72, the T-72M1. Nope, in this case M1 does not mean moderinzed. It was weaker this than USSR T-72A. Best T-55 was the AM but HUN never bought the Bastion.

To make playable HUN would make just as fantasy nations as YUG or all other NSWP which from my aspect it means pointless. You cannot make any unique unit comparing to current NSWP or YUG.

Well, no. I'm not terribly keen on Hungary but it deserves a thread and a bit of an effort just to see what it would be like. Think of it as an educational experience for everyone who doesn't realise quite how badly off Hungary were militarily in 1991. However, if it turns out that there are unique and useful capabilities that it could provide to Romania/Bulgaria as a full Southern Warsaw Pact coalition then it deserves to be included. If, for example, Hungary only operated their Mi-24Ds with rockets because the Fleytas had time-expired by 1980 then that's a positive because the Rocket-Hind would be few points cheaper for the loss of some rubbish missiles.

Rather adding new content the currentd DB should be fixed, are tons of idiotic things even today 3 years after the beta. Kubs, totally laughable USA air tab, 5HE SR IR AAM issues, etc.

You're preaching to the converted here but we all know that there's no money in those fixes directly. If there's another DLC then there's another patch, if there's another patch then these issues can be sorted out then. Therefore, hype the DLC to attempt to entice Eugen to patch the game.
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Re: [Non-Include Nations] Hungary

Postby another505 » Sat 18 Feb 2017 16:18

well if rom and bulg gets in.
and if hungary could just bring a few things, like extra loadout for the same plane/helicopter
maybe something unique in its infantry for the coalition

it would be already doable, like ANZAC level.
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Re: [Non-Include Nations] Hungary

Postby molnibalage » Sat 18 Feb 2017 16:27

another505 wrote:well if rom and bulg gets in.
and if hungary could just bring a few things, like extra loadout for the same plane/helicopter
maybe something unique in its infantry for the coalition

it would be already doable, like ANZAC level.

BUL and ROM are just as good idea as were YUG and FIN. I have no idea what is the point the have totally fantasy nations with such wepaons which are better that superpowers have...

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Re: [Non-Include Nations] Hungary

Postby another505 » Sat 18 Feb 2017 17:11

molnibalage wrote:
another505 wrote:well if rom and bulg gets in.
and if hungary could just bring a few things, like extra loadout for the same plane/helicopter
maybe something unique in its infantry for the coalition

it would be already doable, like ANZAC level.

BUL and ROM are just as good idea as were YUG and FIN. I have no idea what is the point the have totally fantasy nations with such wepaons which are better that superpowers have...



Superpowers still have more and better units in general than Yug/Fin
I think a huge appeal of the game is that we can play nations other than the superpowers still being viable

Rom/Bug is to balance out the Red vs Blue nations disparity.
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Re: [Non-Include Nations] Hungary

Postby molnibalage » Sat 18 Feb 2017 18:31

another505 wrote:
molnibalage wrote:
another505 wrote:well if rom and bulg gets in.
and if hungary could just bring a few things, like extra loadout for the same plane/helicopter
maybe something unique in its infantry for the coalition

it would be already doable, like ANZAC level.

BUL and ROM are just as good idea as were YUG and FIN. I have no idea what is the point the have totally fantasy nations with such wepaons which are better that superpowers have...



Superpowers still have more and better units in general than Yug/Fin
I think a huge appeal of the game is that we can play nations other than the superpowers still being viable

Rom/Bug is to balance out the Red vs Blue nations disparity.

FIN has a better marine jet than USA...
YUG has the best recon tank in the game, almost and M1A1 with VG optics...
Should I contine?
The last DLC is the biggest LoL in WG history...

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