[Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

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Eiya
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Location: 台灣省, 中華民國 R.O.C.
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[Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

Postby Eiya » Sun 12 Mar 2017 14:19

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In Red Dragon's Asian setting,
aside from Vietnam, a critical missing nation for the setting is the Republic of China (中華民國; Chunghua Min-Kuo) on Taiwan.

THREAD MUSIC

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WHY?
Because the Two Chinas situation is just as, if not more explosive and able than the Two Koreas to provoke an all-out war in Asia. But obviously this doesn't receive as much attention or is as well known in the West.

Personally I fail to see why the ROC was not added or included in the base game from release. (Why bother with Chicom censors?)

Very simplified historical background:
tl;dr "Taiwan" is actually Nationalist China / Republic of China, yes that China from WW2. Except on a tiny island now because communists.
And we did quite a lot of things in the Cold War, and were (and still are) a major factor in East Asia's political landscape.

Tap Spoiler if you want to read somewhat more in-depth information. The complete history is a lot more complicated.
Spoiler : :
BACKGROUND:
The entire Taiwan Strait situation stems from the defeat of the original Nationalist China (Kuomintang) government in the Chinese Civil War against the Chinese communists after WW2.

The nationalist government decided to abandon the mainland due to the untenable military situation, and retreated to the island of Taiwan.

Taiwan was originally intended to be a base of recovery and a platform to counterattack back into the communist occupied mainland, offensive plans and preparations to counterattack mainland China were prepared until the 80s. (E.G. Project National Glory (國光計畫) which never materialized since it was deemed too risky due to lack of US support.)

Aside from Taiwan, the ROC holds sovereign rule over some outlying islands such as Penghu, Matsu and most notably Kinmen (a mere 2 km'ish close to the PRC / Communist China!)

So Taiwan is not much a 'renegade province', but the last bastion of the democratic Republic of China against the communist People's Republic of China.

COMBAT:
Various land, air and naval battles and engagements between Communist China and the ROC occurred till the 1970s.
(Artillery bombardment campaigns on outlying islands like from Kinmen (ROC) to Xiamen (PRC) and vice-versa continued till the 1980s)

During the Cold War the ROC had also somewhat participated in both Korean and Vietnam Wars :

1. In the Korean War the ROC wanted active participation but was restrained from doing so by the US. While Communist China was preparing for a potential invasion of Taiwan the US sent carrier groups to the Taiwan strait to neutralize the threat.

The first kills using modern AAMs were also achieved by the ROC Air Force with AIM-9 Sidewinder equipped F-86 Sabres against Chicom planes during one of the many air engagements of this time. (Second Taiwan Strait Crisis; 1958)

2. During the Vietnam War, aid to South Vietnam, leasing of air force planes, military advisers, and SF deployments etc were carried out but the ROC was restrained from active participation (which Chiang-Kai Shek wanted) by the US.

From 1979 till 1990, the ROC Air Force also sent active military advisers and pilots (under the guise of being from Saudi Arabia with Saudi uniforms and passports) to support North Yemen in a plan called the Tamo Chi-hua (大漠計畫; Desert Plan)

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MISC (Potential campaigns etc.)
Spoiler : :
CAMPAIGN SCENARIOS
Kuokuang Chi-hua (國光計畫; Project National Glory)
Plan for ROC counterattack into communist-occupied mainland China

General plan structure:
Artillery bombardment from Kinmen to Amoy / Xiamen, followed by an air-naval invasion of Fukien from Taiwan, Kinmen, and the Penghu islands.

Coupled with disruption attacks from Nationalist forces that did not join the retreat to Taiwan in 1949 in Northern China and Burmese border areas to allow for a foothold on mainland China as a base for further campaigns.

HISTORICAL NOTE:
Preparations and planning started 1956; historically only partially carried out (Paratroopers, and small landing parties were sent out), main invasion plan not carried out due to active US objection and obstruction, and was deemed too risky due to lack of US support and the failure of initial naval engagements by the ROC Navy.

With the international recognition of the PRC in 1972 the plan was abandoned.

Great Torch Five (大火炬五號; GT-5)
Proposed plan to the US for counterattacking into mainland China during the Vietnam War.

Involves American air and naval cover while the ROC armed forces attack through Canton, Kwangsi, Kweichow, Szechuan with a double objective of reclaiming mainland China and to cut off Chinese Communist support and supply to the Vietcong and North Vietnamese Army.

HISTORICAL NOTE:
Not carried out due to US objection.

Modern names of said provinces: Guangdong, Guangxi, Guizhou, Sichuan.

PRC reclamation of Taiwan

COALITIONS
Coalition with the US and / or as third member of Blue Dragons?


TAGS
A way (probably the best, most accurate and logical way) of differentiating it from the current "China" in the game is to rename the current "China" and associated tags (flags, faction etc) to PRC, so the Republic of China can use the correct and official ROC abbreviation as a tag instead of the more intuitive but controversial, politically, historically and officially incorrect "TW".

Reasons for it being incorrect is due to the political climate and stance of the ROC on Taiwan until the 1990s (especially in the period of 1949 - 1980) was exclusively of the ROC being the legitimate China, instead of the split political identity (Are we Free China or are we our own country) of the late 1980s - today.

And aside from that our nation is still officially the Republic of China. Taiwan is an unofficial name that is more commonly used for easy differentiation's sake.

An example would be the two Koreas, in-game neither side is tagged as just "KOR", but with their own respective appropriate (NK, ROK) tags.

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SIDE-NOTE:
To those saying the ROC/Taiwan would be too "weak" and unviable
tl;dr: Most English (and other languages) sources do not have much information on the ROC military and especially not the Cold-War era ROC, the best sources are mostly either Chinese or Japanese. And while the modern day ROC military certainly is a mess, it was a force on par with the JSDF or ROK military during the Cold War.

Spoiler : :
From my own experience, the English Wikipedia pages on the ROC military are mostly inadequate, they mostly contain info on the modern-day forces and not the Cold-War era ROC. Most information on units, equipment and such are also not available on English sources.

This is not to say English sources are useless, sometimes they contain information the Chinese versions do not (and vice versa; more on Chinese sites due to this being about Taiwan), but there are a lot of cases of conflicting information between Chinese and English sources.

Research using Chinese sources and sites is also extremely hard. I'm guessing most of these information lie in the museums/archives...

NOTABLE SOURCES:
尖端科技軍事圖庫
Good source on photos, models used etc. (Covers militaries of all nations, not just the ROC/Taiwan)

Military fair album
Features a lot of images, a lot.

Album with Cold-War era photos of the ROC military.

http://www.mdc.idv.tw/mdc/index-top-big.htm
Has those hard to get information, all in Chinese.

http://seesaawiki.jp/w/namacha2/
Japanese site that actually has pretty in-depth information and photos. (All in JP)


DISCLAIMER:
There might also be errors in the info listed here, I'm not a professional on this topic and detailed information on the ROC armed forces are generally quite hard and confusing to find online due to scattered, incomplete or lack of online documentation.

One thing I can say for sure is that there is a lot more to this, but it'll definitely require deeper searches and digging.

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POTENTIAL UNIT LIST (MOST PROBABLY INCOMPLETE; expect occasional updates)

NOTE:
Units listed will also mainly be of "unique" units or units known to be used in these roles (to reduce redundancy), I hope no one actually thinks the ROC armed forces lack basic things like recon-infantry.

Any images shown may not be from timeframe period; unit and equipment info most probably incomplete due to scattered and/or lack of info online

*Romanization of Chinese names will be primarily using Wade-Giles (Primarily used in Taiwan) whenever best possible, Hanyu Pinyin will be used or mixed in secondarily if readability requires it.

LOG
COMMAND: INFANTRY
Spoiler : :
Chih-hui Tui (指揮隊; Command team/troop)
Generic term, unknown if specialized term exists


COMMAND: VEHICLE
Spoiler : :
M151 Jeep
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Pictured is of the "communications" variant, could be used for command?


CM-26
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Command variant of CM-21


LVT-3C Chih-hui Che (指揮車; Command Vehicle)
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LVTC-1A1 Chih-hui Che (指揮車; Command Vehicle)
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COMMAND: TANK
Spoiler : :
M48 series / M60A3TTS / CM-11 / CM-12
All above apparently allocated to HQ battalions (Source: Globalsecurity.org ; unknown if used as command tank)


LOGISTICS: VEHICLE
Spoiler : :
Shih-lun Chün-yung Ta Ka-Che (十輪軍用大卡車; Ten-wheeled military use truck)
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M35 Truck
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Chunghsing chanshu lun-che(中型戰術輪車 ; Medium Tactical Truck; licensed ITEC International 7400)
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Unknown service date, unknown if numbered designation exists

Was licensed to SYM Motors of Taiwan, uses a straight-six engine and 4x6 chassis.


M116 Husky Amphibious Cargo Carrier
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BARC
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LARC-LX 13
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LARC-5
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CM-24 Ammunition Transport Vehicle (CM-24彈藥運輸車)
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Service date: 1988

VARIANT:
CM-24A1
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Unknown difference from base CM-24


LOGISTICS: HELICOPTER
Spoiler : :
CH-47 / Boeing B-234 MLR (Multi-purpose Long Range)
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Service date: 1985

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INF
INFANTRY WEAPONS
Spoiler : :
Primaries
CLC Type 65 (國造65式步槍; 聯勤T65突擊步槍)
Standard issue infantry weapon

VARIANTS
Type 65K1 introduced 1980(?); produced in few numbers

Type 65K2 introduced 1987

T65K2 Carbine (T65K2卡賓槍)
Introduced 1993

T65K3 Carbine (T65K3卡賓槍)
Introduced 1995


Type 57 Rifle (57式步槍; M14 copy)
Phased out and in limited service by 1975


T77 Submachine gun (T77衝鋒槍)
First revealed 1985, in official service 1992


Support
Type 57 Machine-Gun (57式機槍; M60 copy)

T74 (T74排用機槍; FN MAG derivative)

T75 (T75班用機槍; FN Minimi derivative)

T90 HMG (T90重機槍; M2 Browning derivative; mounted on vehicles)

Lien-fa Tsunghuo Chiang (連發縱火槍; Designation for Milkor MGL; Used to fire yellow phosphorous rounds)
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Unknown service date


Type 67 Flamethrower (國造67式火焰噴射器)

M2 Flamethrower

Anti-Tank: Launchers
Type 1 66mm Rocket Launcher (一式66公釐火箭彈; M72 LAW copy)

SMAW
Unknown service date


AT4
Unknown service date


APILAS
In service: 1990 (according to Japanese sources)


Anti-Tank: ATGM
TOW series
TOW-1 recieved by* 1981
( Specifying because I haven't found a concrete service date, but M113s with mounted TOWs were in the 1981 national day parades )


Milan-3
Globalsecurity specifies Milan-3, not much info otherwise


MANPADS
FIM-92 Tzuchen (刺針; Stinger)
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Also used in dual-mount configurations

Service date: 1996


Hsipei-feng-1 (西北風-1 ; Mistral-I)
In service: 1995 ( According to C:MANO database)


FIM-43 Hungyan (紅眼; Redeye)
In service: 1976 (? According to C:MANO database)


INFANTRY UNITS
Spoiler : :
Militia
Houpeichün (後備軍; Reservists)
Generic term, unknown if specialized term exists.

Side Note: Second-rate reservists have an official army term of "Kuominchun (國民軍)"


Line
Bubing (步兵; Infantry)
Generic term, unknown if specialized term exists


Marines
Haichün Luchantui (海軍陸戰隊; Marines)
Generic term, unknown if specialized term exists


Airborne
Kungchiang Putui (空降部隊; Airborne) OR San Ping (傘兵; Paratroopers)
Generic terms, unknown if specialized term exists

NOTE: Wikipedia states the only airborne forces in the ROC military are SF, but this is untrue.
Regular airborne/paratroopers were maintained during the cold war.


Combat Engineer
Pen-huo Tsu (噴火組; Flamethrower Team)
Unknown if official term for flamethrower teams, sourced from image albums


Anti-Tank(?)
Fan-Chia Pai (反甲排; Anti-Armor Platoon)
Generic term, unknown if specialized term exists


Anti-Air
Fangkung Pai (防空排; Air-Defense Platoon)
Generic term, unknown if specialized term exists


Special Forces
ASOF (中華民國空降特戰部隊; R.O.C. Airborne Special Forces)
AKA Hung-Hsiang Butui (鴻翔部隊)


Techung Chinwu Tui(特種勤務隊)
AKA Liangshan Techin Tui (涼山特勤隊)


CMC.SSC (中華民國海軍陸戰隊特勤隊; Haichün Luchan Tui Techin Tui ; Chinese Marine Corps Special Service Company)
AKA Hei-yi Butui (黑衣部隊)

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SUP
ANTI-AIRCRAFT: SYSTEM
Spoiler : :
Tien Bing (天兵防空系統; Skyguard Air Defense System ; Tien Bing Fangkung Hsitung)
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Adopted in 1975, consists of a AIM-7 Sparrow Launcher and Oerlikon GDF-001 twin cannons with a radar system.

GDF-003 bought in 1980; AIM-7F Sparrow launchers bought from the US in 1991.

Unsure if mounted versions exist


ANTI-AIRCRAFT: ARTILLERY
Spoiler : :
M42 Duster
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Recieved from the US in 1958 (Wikipedia)


M45 Quadmount w/ M20 trailer
Were used in conjunction with Bofors 40mms as air-defense, replaced by T-82


Bofors M1 40mm
Recieved from the US in 1953 and used in conjunction with M45 quadmounts for anti-air defense. Replaced by T-82

L70 version ordered in 1970;

Unknown if mounted versions exist


T-75M (T-75M車載型; T-75M Motor-mount type)
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Unknown service date, mounted version of T-75 20mm Autocannon (T-75 20毫米機砲; Copy of American M-39A3 cannon)

PLATFORM:
Mainly on humvees, truck mount possible?


T-82 Fang-kung Pao (T-82防空炮; T-82 Anti-aircraft cannon)
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Dual T-75 cannon system, unknown service date and whether mounted versions exist


T-92 40mm (T-92 40公釐/70倍徑(40mm/L70)防空快砲系統)
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*Note: I'm hesitant to include this as it's very very likely to be OOTF, but going ahead with it because it has a chance of not being OOTF.
(due to info mentioning it was submitted for evaluation in 2000, maybe there's a chance of it being developed within time frame)

Has Optronic Fire-control Systems, third generation infrared imaging, visual range of 10km, 7km tracking range. Visual-range sights also included for gunnery.

330 RPM, effective range 4000m.

Unknown date of design, development, production; Unknown if mounted variants exist within time frame*.

*A mounted version on a truck exists but was revealed as part of an air defense system called the Chin-nu Chua'n (勁弩專案; Project Crossbow) in 2010+

Pictured here with a land-based Tien-Chien II launcher (the cannon on the right is the T-92)
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ANTI-AIRCRAFT: MISSILE
Spoiler : :
MIM-72/M48 Tsung shu (欉樹飛彈; Chaparral)
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PLATFORM:
Standard carrier / V-150 & V-150S / M113


MIM-23 Ying-Shih (鷹式; Hawk)
&
MIM-23B Ying-Shih Kai Liang Hsing (鷹式改良型; I-Hawk)
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AN/TWQ-1 Fuchouche (復仇者; Avenger)
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Acquired along with FIM-92 Stingers in 1996


HMMWV Humvee w/ Dual Mount FIM-92 Stingers
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Chieh Ling (捷羚防空飛彈系統; Chieh Ling Fangkung Feitan Hsitung ; Antelope Air Defense System)
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DEVELOPMENT:
Publicly revealed (revealed in Hankuang military exercise) in 1997, officially in service 2005.

PLATFORM:
CM-31 / Humvee / Truck

ARMAMENT: Tien-Chien I (天剑一型; Sky Sword I)


Tien-Kung I / II (天弓一型防空飛彈/天弓二型防空飛彈)
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*Pictured is a Tien-Kung II launcher

Tien-Kung I service date: 1986;

Tien-Kung II service date (*Mass production started; Wikipedia source): 1997


MIM-104 Ai Kuo Che (愛國者; MIM-104 Patriot)
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Bought from the US in 1996


MIM-14 Shengli Nüshen (勝利女神飛彈; Nike Hercules)
Probably not, but hey listing it anyway


ARTILLERY: MORTAR
Spoiler : :
CM-22 Armored Mortar Carrier (CM-22裝甲迫砲車)
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DEVELOPMENT:
Developed 1987

Spaced armor and firing ports removed.

ARMAMENT:
Type 62 107mm 4.2 inch mortar (62式4.2英寸迫擊砲)

VARIANT:
CM-22A1: Equipped with Type 63 120mm mortar (63式120毫米迫擊砲)


CM23 Armored Mortar Carrier (CM-23裝甲迫砲車)
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81mm mortar version of the CM-22.

ARMAMENT:
T-75K1 81mm mortar (T-75 81毫米迫擊砲)

VARIANT:
CM23A1 also exists, unknown difference from CM-23.


V-150 / V150S w/T-75K1 81mm mortar
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NOTE: M113 mounts for mortars also exist.


ARTILLERY: HOWITZER
Spoiler : :
M108
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M109A1B & M109A2
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Bought 1982 (Source: globalsecurity.org & Wikipedia )


M110
&
M110A2
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Bought from the US in 1981


M108/T65 155 Tzutsou Pao (M108/T65 155自走榴砲)
&
M108/M114 155 Tzutsou Pao (M108/M114 155自走榴砲)
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Revealed in 1981 national day parades.

Consists of a T-65 howtizer (T-65榴彈炮; ROC-made M114A1 howitzer derivative) or M114 howitzer mounted on an M108 chassis.

An improved version with various improvements and a visibly added muzzle brake to improve the chassis' recoil handling was also made
Image

Unknown serial designation, unknown numbers produced and unknown year of service.


XT-69 155 Tzu-tsou Tsengcheng Pao
(XT-69自走砲; XT-69 Self-propelled gun OR XT69 155自走增程砲; XT69 155 Self-propelled extended range cannon)
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DEVELOPMENT:
XT-69 (also called 155增程砲; 155 extended range cannon) is an indigenous howitzer manufactured from 1979 to 1982.

M108 mounted version revealed in 1981 national day parades.

Unknown service date and number produced for M108-chassis mounted version. Was not fully accepted to service as the chassis had trouble handling the recoil.

PLATFORM: M108 chassis (Unknown if other platforms were used)

ARMAMENT: XT-69 howitzer

CALIBER: 155mm (XT69)・ 203mm (XT69A1?) / LENGTH: 7m / RANGE: 22 km (M107 Standard Ammunition) / 29.5 km (Extended range ammunition)


Also were in service but maybe too outdated?
M7 Priest / M44 Howitzer / M52 Howitzer / M55 Howitzer


ARTILLERY: ROCKET
Spoiler : :
Kungfeng IV (工蜂四型多管火箭)
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DEVELOPMENT:
Development started 1965, finished 1975. Publicly revealed in 1976 Double-Ten National Day parades; Mass-production started 1977.

Towed variant development finished 1972; Self-propelled variant development finished 1977
(?, unknown if self-propelled meant mounted variant or an actual self-propelled version)

PLATFORM:
MAIN: Towed, M113 (ROC Army / Marine Corps), LVTP-5-RL (ROC Marine Corps)
*[APC-mount versions presumably still able to carry troops? ; Wikipedia states that the LVTP-5-RLs w/Kungfeng IV were intended for beachhead fire support]

OTHER: M151 jeeps (and many more, apparently can be fitted onto a lot of different platforms due to the compact size)

Comprised of two modules with 20 tubes each, adding up to 40 launcher tubes, all munitions can be fired off within 16 seconds.

MUNITION:
CALIBER: 126 mm / WEIGHT: 24.4 kg / LENGTH: 91 cm/ RANGE: 10.5 km

TYPE: High-explosive (Fragmentation); Yellow Phosphorus.


Kungfeng VI (工蜂六型多管火箭)
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DEVELOPMENT:
Development started 1975, publicly revealed during national day parades in 1981.

Finalized and mass produced in 1982.

PLATFORM:
M805 5-ton cargo truck (mass-production platform), M51A2 five-ton truck

Has 45 117mm launcher tubes, firing system can launch all rockets within 22.5 seconds.

MUNITION:
Kungliu A-Hsing (公六A型 ; Type A) rocket

CALIBER: 117mm / WEIGHT: 42.64 kg / LENGTH: 2.166 m/ RANGE: 15,000 m / KILL-ZONE: 800x600 m

TYPE: High-Explosive; Yellow Phosphorus.


Kungfeng VII (工蜂七型多管火箭)
Almost no information aside from one Wikipedia page.

Apparently based on the American M270 MLRS, and is the predecessor to the Leiting 2000 MLRS.

The Kungfeng VII is most likely just a prototype of the Leiting-2000 if it actually did exist,

Judging by the information, it most likely looks similar or identical to the early HEMTT mount Leiting-2000 with the only visually noticeable changes being to the launcher module (amount of tubes etc)

DEVELOPMENT:
Development started 1984 and ended 1988. Not mass produced, unknown numbers made.

PLATFORM:
Mounted on an American made M997 8x8 truck, designed with a "launcher box" system instead of launcher tubes, with 9 tubes per box in a 3x3 layout.

Digitalized firing system lowers firing preparation time, and has fast loading speed due to some sort of electronic locking system on the launcher boxes, allowing immediate firing after loading.

MUNITION:
CALIBER: 182 mm / WEIGHT: 185 kg / LENGTH: 3.9 m / RANGE: 30 km

TYPE: Pre-fragmented High-Explosive; Dual-Purpose (HE & AT) cluster-munitions.
(Has proximity-fuse for HE and remote-controlled time-detonated fuse for cluster-munitions.)

Similar to Taiwan's indigenous-made MK-15 rocket used by the Leiting-2000 MLRS.

Warhead is 50% of the entire rocket, scatter radius is as small as CEP 1%.


Leiting 2000 MLRS (雷霆2000多管火箭系統; Thunderbolt-2000 ; RT/LT-2000)
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Shown equipped with MK30 rockets


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Shown equipped with MK45 rockets

DEVELOPMENT:
Introduced 1997, mass produced 2010 and in service in 2012.

PLATFORM:
Earliest mount was on a M-977 HEMTT.

*The most common pictures of the Leiting available are of it using 2009+ German MAN truck mounts (current mass production mount).
MUNITION:
MK-15 rocket (Improved version of the KungFeng VI Type A Rocket)

CALIBER: 117 mm / WEIGHT: 42 kg / LENGTH: 1960 mm / RANGE: 7 - 15 km

Airburst-capable ; One module has 20 rounds, the platform can carry 3 modules totaling 60 rounds.

TYPE: High-explosive fragmentation (6.4mm steel balls x6400, intended for soft targets)

----

MK-30 rocket

CALIBER: 182 mm / WEIGHT: 187 kg / LENGTH: 3900 mm / RANGE: 15 - 30 km

Airburst-capable ; One module carries 9 rounds, platform can carry 3 modules totaling 27 rounds.

TYPE:
1. High-Explosive fragmentation (8mm steel balls x18,300)

2.M77 dual-purpose cluster-munitions (x267)
( Anti-personnel / Soft targets, able to penetrate 8-10 meters of steel. Can be set to delayed-fuse for anti-personnel purposes)

----

MK-45 rocket

CALIBER: 230 mm / WEIGHT: 305 kg / LENGTH: 4,021 mm / RANGE: 25 - 45 km

Airburst-capable; One module has 6 rounds, platform can carry 2 modules totaling 12 rounds

TYPE:
1. High-explosive fragmentation (8mm steel balls x25,000)

2. M77 dual-purpose cluster-munitions (x518)

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TNK
MAIN BATTLE TANK
Spoiler : :
M48H / CM-11 "Yung-Hu Shih" (勇虎式; Brave Tiger)
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DEVELOPMENT: Designed 1984, first made 1988, in service 1990
(*Wikipedia M48 Patton article says CM-11s were first made in 1986.)

A standard M60A3 tank hull merged with a M48A3 turret.

Main feature is the addition of an FCS from the M1A1 Abrams, granting it stabilizers, good first-shot accuracy and fire-on-the-move capability.

NOTE:
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Also outfitted with French GIAT ERA, apparently first* revealed in 2000, though date of first introduction unknown.

*(The ROC Army has been long trying (pre-2000) to fit ERA onto the tank, it fits fine but overloaded the suspension, presumably that problem was solved by 2000 with the first public reveal of such a configuration.)


CM-12
Image
DEVELOPMENT:
Service date: 1990

Modified M48A3, petrol engine replaced with diesel, new transmission, turret replaced with CM-11's turret along with the addition of fire control systems from the M1A1 Abrams.

Exterior-wise it resembles the M48A5, the interior is completely reworked, though loss of interior fuel storage space meant loss of operational range.


M60A3 & M60A3 TTS
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According to Wikipedia article on M-41D, M60A3 TTS were in service with the ROC Army in 1992, with 300 more bought in 1996.


M48A1/A2/A3 Patton & M48 "A3" (A1改; Kai) / M48 "A5"
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In 1980 most M48A1s were locally-modified with a new diesel engine and extra fuel capacity, as M48A1 Kai (M48A1 改). Though also called M48A3s in the ROC Army, they were different from American produced A3s.

Also modernized into "M48A5" standards with a new M68 105mm gun, diesel engine and infrared NV systems among other minor improvements and changes. Designated as M48A5 but still has differences with the actual American A5.

M48A1 first delivered 1973; M48 "A3" (A1 改; Kai) introduced 1980;


CAVALRY TANK
Spoiler : :
M-41D
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Features a newer engine giving it longer operational radius, a new targeting system and fire control system.

The gun is also changed from the original to a CLC (Combined Logistics Command; the ROC's primary R&D department) improved M32K1 gun, keeping the original caliber of 76mm.

Primary ammunition is Israeli-made M464 APFDS.

Mainly used in recon role due to lack of stabilizer

Development started 1996; introduced 1998


Liu-Shi Shih (六四式; Type 64)
Image
*Not to be confused with another Taiwanese M41 Walker Bulldog modernization also named Type 64

A M42 Duster hull merged with a M18 Hellcat turret, armament is a locally manufactured 76mm rifled gun, a coaxial 7.62mm MG and a mounted M2 HB.

Intended to be a cavalry tank, supplementing existing tanks of the army.

50+ made according to Wikipedia source

Introduced 1975


M41A1 / M41A3 Walker Bulldog
Image
M41s first delivered 1958


Liu-Shi Shih (六四式; Type 64) M-41A1 Walker Bulldog

Image
*Also known as Liu-Wu Shih Chan Che (六五式戰車; Type 65 Tank)
(Not to be confused with the M24 + M18 Hellcat "Type 64")

Built on the basis on the M41, featuring improved fire controls (Laser rangefinding, ballistics calculator and passive night vision systems etc.), a new diesel engine, a new radio, a mounted T57 (Type 57; Locally made M60), applique armor on the turret, and sideskirts.

A new electrical system, and additional hull armor was also introduced.

Introduced in 1975, but not mass produced

Source: http://blog.xuite.net/adonis1625128/twblog1/125427166


Type 65 Ching Chan Che (國造65式輕戰車; Type 65 Light Tank)
Image
*Not to be confused with another M41 Walker Bulldog variant also named Type 65

An M113 with an M24 Chaffee's turret and a 75mm gun, engine position was switched from front to rear.

Unknown date of design, service etc.

Possibly just a prototype as the image shows it with a sign saying "Test Vehicle" in front.


M24 / M24A1 Chaffee
Image
Modified M24s featuring a better engine and transmission and improved armor among some other minor changes were designated M24A1.

Also were in service but may be too outdated?
M5 Stuart / M4 Sherman

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
REC
RECON: SPECIAL FORCES
Spoiler : :
UDT (海軍水中爆破隊; Underwater Demolition Team,U.D.T)
Also known as UDU (Underwater Demolition Unit)


ARB-101 (中華民國陸軍101兩棲偵察營; Army 101st Amphibious Reconnaissance Battalion)
Goes by various names

1949: Chencha Tui (偵察隊; lit. Reconnaissance Team)

1953: Fan-kung Chiukuochun Haishangtuchitui (反共救國軍海上突擊隊; Anti-Communist National Salvation Army Marine Strike Team)

1954: Chengkung Tui (成功特種蛙人隊; 成功隊 ; Victory Frogmen or Victory Team)

1973: Hailong (海龍蛙兵; Hailong Wabing; Sea Dragon Frogmen)

Nicknames: Shui-kuei (水鬼; Water Devils)


RECON: TANK
Spoiler : :
M-41D

M24 & M24A1 Chaffee


RECON: VEHICLE
Spoiler : :
Willys Jeep / V-150S / Humvee

Also were in service but maybe too outdated?
M8 Greyhound


RECON: HELICOPTER
Spoiler : :
OH-6A Cayuse
Image
Used in recon role, unknown if used in other roles


OH-58D
Image
Delivered with AH-1W Supercobras in 1993

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
VHC
TRANSPORT
Spoiler : :
M113
Image
Were also modified, unknown if to CM-21 standards or a seperate upgrade
Image


V-150 & V-150S
Image

CM-21 / CM21A1 / CM21A2
Image
DEVELOPMENT
Development started 1970s to 1979; Production started 1980

Uses gearbox and transmission from the M113, offers better protection than the M113 with front and rear spaced armor, filled with polyurethane to absorb kinetic energy. And has two firing ports on each side and one on the rear of the hull. Carries 12 soldiers

Heavier by a few hundred kilograms than the M113, thus has slightly decreased mobility.

Amphibious capability up to 1.5 meters deep, propelled by tracks.

ARMAMENT:
M2 Browning; Mk19 Automatic Grenade Launcher; and other various weaponry.
(Dual mount of M2 + MK19 possible with a bi-mount gun rack [unknown if it's a newer standard mount] )

VARIANT:
Image
CM-21A1: Currently in service, unknown improvements from base CM-21 (Gun shield pictured not known to be standard)

Image
CM-21A2: Improved variant of the A1, fitted with slat armor on the sides to protect against HEAT weapons.

Image
Prototype variant of the CM-21A2 fitted with a French GIAT DRAGAR turret with a 25mm autocannon exists but was not adopted, a version fitted with a simple locally-designed turret was also made for testing purposes.


DUKW
Image

LVT-3C
Image

LVT-4 / LVT(A)-4
Image
Image

LVTP5A1
Image
Bought in 1972 to replace LVT-4 and LVT-3Cs.

Retrofitted with diesel engines in 1992 (Another source says 1985) in an improvement program by the ROC Marine Corps and Napco.


LVTP7
Image
Apparently first acquired in 1978


M733
Image

CM-31
Image
DEVELOPMENT:
Started: 1986; First manufactured in 1992; Publicly revealed in 1997

Not adopted due to the Army looking to upgrade tanks and not APCs.

Armor can protect against Russian 14.5mm AP, and some radar deflection capabilities due to shape.

MAX.SPEED: 100km/h / RANGE: 600km

Amphibious capable, propelled by screws on the rear of the hull.

Can carry up to 13 soldiers. The hull has 5 firing ports, 3 on the left and 2 on the right.

Apparently has digitized tire pressure management systems, allowing for very high stability when on the move (off-road and on).

ARMAMENT:
M2 Browning

NOTE
A prototype version resembling the TPz Fuchs was also made
Image

Predecessor of CM-31 was the prototype:
CM-30 (ROC designation) / MK-8 (Timoney Technology Limited designation)
Image
DEVELOPMENT:
Developed before 1988; exact date unknown.

LENGTH: 5.6m / WIDTH: 2.5m / HEIGHT 2.21m

MAX.SPEED: 105 km/hr / RANGE: 490km

Amphibious capable

Can carry 9 soldiers, and can withstand 12.7mm rounds.
----
Info Source


CM-32 Yunpao (Prototype ?)
Image
Image
Image
Unknown when these photos were taken, judging from photo quality they seem be to mid 80s-90s


GENERIC
Spoiler : :
Shih-lieh Yü 2 1/2 Ton (師烈嶼兩噸半)
Image

Chung-Cheng Jeep (中正式吉普)
Image

Hua Tung 10 1/2 Ton (華同10噸半)
Image

HMMWV Han-ma (悍馬; Humvee)
Image
Bought from the US after the Gulf War, 1996

(Might have been introduced earlier?)


Willys Jeep
Unknown role, probably recoilless rifle / ATGM platform or recon


UMM 4x4
Unknown role and service date


Land Rover Defender
Unknown role and service date


M151 Jeep
Used as recon, weapons platform etc


FIRE SUPPORT
Spoiler : :
Type 51 106mm Recoiless Rifle (51式106公釐無後座力砲; based on M40A1 recoiless rifle)
&
M40A1 Recoiless Rifle
Image
Mounted on jeeps and used by infantry, unknown if mounted on CM-21 / M113

Image
Image
Image


M733 w/recoilless rifle
Image

LVT-A
Image

LVTH-6A1
Image
Image

Also were in service but maybe too outdated?
M36 Jackson / M18 Hellcat / M45 Quadmount (w/ M20 trailer)

M10 Wolverine SPG
(Modified M10 with a mounted Japanese-made 105mm howitzer; 34 modified after WW2 but exact date remains unknown, transported to Taiwan during the retreat)


TANK DESTROYER
Spoiler : :
Kunwu ATGM (昆吾飛彈)
Image
Essentially a Malyutka copy, seen mounted on M151 jeeps during Double-Ten National Day parades in 1981

Number produced unknown

A version of the CM-21 APC mounting the Kunwu was also developed.

Apparently it was not adopted due to the acquisition of TOWs from the US, apparently. (unconfirmed)


CM-25 TOW 1 & 2 (CM-25拖式飛彈裝甲車)
Image
According to Wikipedia, CM-25 only used by the ROC Marine Corps, while the M113 TOW variants are in use by the army.

Has improved amphibious capability (Polystyrene filling between armor gaps according to Chinese wikipedia)


M113A1 TOW 1 & 2
Image

HMMWV Humvee TOW I & 2
Image

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
HELI
TRANSPORT
Spoiler : :
UH-1H
Image
Manufactured in conjunction with AIDC (Hanhsiang; 漢翔; developer of F-CK-1), production started 1970


S-70C
Delivered 1986


GUNSHIP
Spoiler : :
AH-1W Chaochi Yanchingshe (超級眼鏡蛇; Supercobra)
Image
Service date: 1993

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
AIR
Spoiler : :
F-104A/B/D/G/J/DJ Hsing-shih (星式; Starfighter)
Image
Procurement program named Alishan Chi-Hua (阿里山计划; Alishan Project/Program);
Ranging from "Alishan Yi-Hao (阿里山1號; Alishan 1 )" to "Alishan Shih-Yi Hao (阿里山11號; Alishan 11)"

First variant delivered was F-104A / B in 1960;

F-104G first recieved 1963

F-104D first recieved 1976

F-104J / DJ first recieved 1987


F-86D/F Sabre
Image

F-100 & F100A Chaochi Chuntao (F-100 超級軍刀 ; Super Sabre)
Image
Image
First delivered 1958


F-5A/B Tzu-you Chanshih (自由戰士; Freedom Fighter)
&
F-5E/F Hu-An (虎安; Peace Tiger; procurement program name) OR Chung Cheng (中正; Honorary name)
*Historically both Hu-An and Chung Cheng names were used at the same time.
Image
Image
F-5A first delivered 1965.

F-5E/F locally manufactured in Taiwan by AIDC under Northrop license

F-5E : First manufactured 1974

F-5F : First manufactured 1979


RF-101A Wutu (巫毒; Voodoo)
Image
Used as recon, no information regarding other roles


AIDC AT-3 / AT-3A Lui Meng (雷鳴) / AT-3B Tzu Chung (自強)
Image
Two-seated trainer/attack aircraft series able to carry various iron bombs, rocket pods, AIM-9 Sidewinder, Tien-Chien-1 AAMs and Hsiung-Feng II (雄風二型) anti-ship missiles*.
(Anti-ship capability first utilized on XA-3 / AT-3A, eventually fitted onto all AT-3s)

AT-3 first flight 1980, introduced 1984
----
AT-3B Tzu Chung (自強):
Image
Outfitted with additional radar and fire control systems, and additional anti-ship capability, can carry Hsiung-Feng II (雄風二型) anti-ship missiles.

AT-3B was apparently not mass produced due to lack of interest from the ROC Navy. (*Chinese sourced info, English source says it's in service?)

AT-3B first flight 1987;
----
AT-3A Lui Meng (雷鳴):
(?; See section on XA-3 below): Unknown service date; 60 produced according to English Wikipedia article


XA-3 Lui Meng (雷鳴)
Image
(*Chinese Wikipedia also designates this as AT-3A while also referring to XA-3 separately, even though they're described using the same codename and capabilities, while the English article distinctly separates the two as different versions with different capabilities.)

Prototype AT-3 version; (cancelled due to focus on F-CK-1 Ching Kuo)

Designed for ground attack, single-seated. Features a 30mm autocannon and additional weapon mounts and carry capability.

Historically was also outfitted with Hsiung-feng II (雄風二型) anti-ship missiles.

First flight: 1982


AT-3 MAX
Literally almost no information, apparently an improved performance version.

Features a bigger nose, new electronics for training and ground attack, a new TFE-731-50 engine increasing thrust from 7000 pounds to 10000 pounds and a digital control system.

Unknown date of design, service, manufacture.

AIDC F-CK-1 A/B Ching-Kuo (經國號戰機)
Image
Also known as Indigenous Defense Fighter (IDF)

Multirole fighter program introduced in January 1994; First flight: 1988

*NOTE: Chinese Wikipedia article says manufacturing started in 1981 for F-CK-1A/B (?)

Equipment - (Wikipedia source)
Gun: M61 Vulcan

Anti-air: Tien-Chien I & II (天劍一型飛彈; 天劍二型飛彈), AIM-9 Sidewinder AAMs.

Ground attack: AGM-65 Maverick, MK20 Rockeye, MK-82SE Snake-eye, 2000 pound / 750 pound M117; GBU-10.12.24 Paveway II

Rocket pod: LAU-60; LAU-69

SEAD version with anti-radiation variant of Tien-Chien II missile exists although service date of anti-rad missile unknown*
(Chinese Wikipedia says it was introduced with the 2010 Hsiangchan Chi-Hua (翔展計畫) upgrades, but I'm not completely sure as I've ran into many conflicting information on ROC gear.

Information on a Japanese site points to the SEAD Tien-Chien II being developed in the 1990s+, but exact date is unknown.)


F-16A/B Block 20 Peace Fenghuang (F-16批次20 「和平鳳凰」)
Image
Procurement program named Peace Fenghuang (和平鳳凰 ; Ho'ping Fenghuang; Peace Phoenix)

Developed for the Republic of China Air Force from 1991 to 1997.


Mirage 2000-5 5EI/5DI (幻影 (Huan-ying) 2000 / 幻象 (Huan-hsiang) 2000)
Image
Procurement program named Fei'lung Chi-hua (飛龍計畫; Project Flying Dragon)

Wikipedia source says the versions sold to the ROCAF had anti-ground capability removed (?)

Sales agreed in 1989; first batch delivered 1997 (Wikipedia source also mentions first delivery on 1992)

Also were in service but maybe too outdated?
F-84G Thunderjet

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
NAV (Yes I'm going there, this is an island nation after all.)
ANTI-SHIP MISSILES
Spoiler : :
Hsiung Feng I (HF-1; 雄風一型 / Original name : 雄蜂飛彈)
Image
Mounted on vessels, unknown if mounted on mobile launchers or aircraft

In service 1979

Hsiung Feng II (HF-2; 雄風二型)
Mounted on AT-3 and F-CK-1 Ching Kuo and various vessels.

In service: 1988

PLATFORM
MGB-2A
Image
Mobile land-based launcher introduced 1993


GUNBOAT
Spoiler : :
Longkiang Class Patrolcraft/Gunboat (龍江級巡邏艇)
Two manufactured, rest cancelled due to halt of diplomatic relations by the US.


FRIGATE
Spoiler : :
Cheng Kung class (成功級)
Image
Image
Licensed Oliver-Hazard Perry class

In service 1993


Chi Yang class(濟陽級)
Image
Leased Knox-Class with modifications

Fitted with SM-1 box launchers


Kang Ding class (康定級)
Image
Licensed La-Fayette class for the ROC Navy

License agreed on 1991, handed over in 1996.

Equipped Exocet ASMs were replaced by Taiwanese Hsiung Feng II ASMs, and the vessel is also equipped with the RIM-72C Sea Chaparral (RIM-72C海檞樹)


DESTROYER
Spoiler : :
Yang-Tzu Hao (陽字號)
Image
Designation* for both ex-IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy) and ex-US WW2 era destroyers in service with the navy.

*Designation initially used for Japanese DDs, later also used for US DDs.

Under modernization programs Wu-Chin I , II and III (武進一 / 二 / 三 型作戰系統; 80s - Early 90s)
Wikipedia page for Wu-Chin I
Wikipedia page for Wu-Chin II
Wikipedia page for Wu-Chin III
All WW2 era vintage weapons were removed and replaced with modern armament
(Hsiung Feng I / II anti-ship missiles, SM-1 box launchers, ASROC, Otobreda 76 mm (3 in) gun, Bofors 40 mm (1.6 in)/70 AA, 20 mm Phalanx CIWS,12.75 in / 324 mm torpedo tubes etc.)


HELICOPTER
Spoiler : :
Sikorsky S-70C(M)-1 Thunderhawk
First delivered 1990; unknown role

Kaman SH-2 Seasprite
Unknown service date and role

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
HYPOTHETICAL (Historical what-ifs)
Spoiler : :
F-16/79, F-20 Tigershark, F-4 Phantom
Proposed procurement of XF fighters from the US in early 1980s, historically rejected.


M8 AGS
Sales agreed by the US in 1990 to replace the M41 Walker Bulldog, historically never delivered
Last edited by Eiya on Thu 11 May 2017 11:50, edited 368 times in total.
「革命尚未成功,同志仍需努力」
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Missing Nation - The Republic of China for Wargame: Red Dragon

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Eiya
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Posts: 13
Joined: Fri 10 Mar 2017 15:33
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Re: [Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

Postby Eiya » Mon 13 Mar 2017 12:12

Some images to pad things out before main list gets updated...

TNK - https://imgur.com/a/YZBFR

SUP - https://imgur.com/a/FOO6I

AIR - http://imgur.com/a/n5Bkn


EDIT: OP updated with images, please check that instead since it's more complete.

Misc. Ideas added in OP regarding possible campaign scenarios and coalition.
「革命尚未成功,同志仍需努力」
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Missing Nation - The Republic of China for Wargame: Red Dragon

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Re: [Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 15 Mar 2017 02:16

Eiya wrote:First thread and post on the forums here, sorry if I screw up something! (And yes I know there is already a thread on this topic)

Welcome! Even though Red Dragon looks to be coming towards the end of it's life, it's always nice to see new blood. This is a good start on a proposal and I totally understand the decision to start fresh and get your own creative control over the front page of the post.

Personally I fail to see why the ROC was not added or included in the base game from release. (Why bother with Chicom censors?)

Cash and controversy, as always with things that'll upset the PRC. Still, they can't shut us down when we're only speculating ;).

So, let's take a bit of a look through.
LOG
Command
Spoiler : :
CM-26
Image
Command variant of CM-21


Unknown truck
Image
Unknown model/designation and service date, looks like a command vehicle(?)

I'd be wary about this one, I'm no damn good at identifying trucks but that looks rather new. In terms of other options it's usual to chuck in whichever jeep Taiwan had plenty of in 1980, some sort of tank (probably an M48 Kai or similar), a light role helicopter (perhaps the Cayuse) and an infantry CV

Logistics
Spoiler : :
Logistics: Vehicle
M35 Truck

Unknown truck
Image
Unknown model/designation and service date


LARC-5
Image

CM-24 Ammunition Transport Vehicle (CM-24彈藥運輸車)
Image
Service date: 1988

Logistics: Helicopter
Boeing B-234 Vertol 234MLR (Multi-purpose Long Range)
Image
Service date: 1985

Looks good, the only thing that I'd say is that the Boeing Vertol B-234MLR is slightly misnamed. It'll only be the B-234MLR in game anyway. Also, can I have it in this livery:
Image :lol:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
INF
Infantry Weapons
Spoiler : :
Primaries
Not my area of expertise, I'm afraid

Anti-Tank
Type 1 66mm Rocket Launcher (一式66公釐火箭彈; M72 LAW copy)
Image

T51 106mm 0.50 inch recoilless gun(國造51式無座力炮0.50吋標定)
Image
No idea if this is for infantry use or mounted on vehicles or what role it was used in

Unknown design and service date

So far as I can tell this is an identical weapon to the M40 Recoilless Rifle and is therefore not really reasonably man-portable. The 0.5" classification probably comes from the spotting rifle mounted to it (which is what I think you have a picture of) and isn't part of the calibre of the piece.

SMAW
Unknown service date

AT4
Unknown service date

APILAS
Unknown service date

MANPADS
FIM-92 Stinger
Image
Also used in dual-mount configurations

Service date: 1996

That's a decent selection of launchers though, plenty of stuff to equip '90 infantry with.

Infantry Units
Spoiler : :
Militia
Houpeichün (後備軍)

Line
Bùbīng (步兵)

Marines
Hǎijūn Lùzhàndùi (海軍陸戰隊)

Special Forces
ASOF (中華民國空降特戰部隊; R.O.C. Airborne Special Forces)
AKA Hung-Hsiang Butui (鴻翔部隊)


Techung Chinwu Tui(特種勤務隊)
AKA Liangshan Techin Tui (涼山特勤隊)


CMC.SSC (中華民國海軍陸戰隊特勤隊; Haichün Luchan Tui Techin Tui ; Chinese Marine Corps Special Service Company)
AKA Hei-yi Butui (黑衣部隊)
These are all probably good options, although it's damned difficult to get much English language information on them. The thing is that, off the top of my head, the only nation to get two types of SF is the UK and that's only because one is a weird MANPADS unit. I'd recommend that you think about which one of these options is the best or most important Taiwanese SF unit for Wargame and mark it as such, although you can probably keep another if Taiwan ever operated handheld automatic grenade launchers or flame-projector weapons like the RPO or the M202 FLASH.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUP
Anti-Aircraft: System
Spoiler : :
Tien Bing Fangkung Hsitung (天兵防空系統; Skyguard Air Defense System)
Image
Adopted in 1975, consists of a AIM-7 Sparrow Launcher and Oerlikon GDF-001 twin cannons with a radar system.

Unsure if mounted versions exist

I'm pretty sure that they don't, which is always a bit of a struggle for adding nations that relied heavily on the Skyguard system for air defence (I'd estimate about a third of the Free and Free-ish world). It's dashed inconsiderate of the Swiss really but I think Taiwan could argue for the GDF on an armoured truck prototype that was bouncing around here a few years ago. I'll have a bit of a dig and see if I can find it again.

Anti-Aircraft: Artillery
Spoiler : :
M42 Duster
Image

T-75 20mm Autocannon (T-75 20毫米機砲; Copy of American M-39A3 cannon)
T-75M motorized mount variant (T-75M車載型)
Image
Mainly on humvees, truck mount possible?

Unknown service date
I like this system. I have two big questions: Is it intended for an anti-aircraft role and are the Humvees also used for other stuff at the same time? I think this could be a lot of fun in the recon tab.

T-82 Anti-aircraft cannon (T-82防空炮)
Image
Dual T-75 cannon system, unknown service date and whether mounted versions exist

Motorise it on a truck if you're really low on options but I don't see this being considerably better than the Duster unless it has advanced fire control systems.

Anti-Aircraft: Missile
Spoiler : :
MIM-72/M48 Chaparral
Image
Platforms: Standard carrier / V-150 & V-150S

V-150 Chap is cool, do you have a picture of how it fitted on?

MIM-23 Hawk
Image

AN/TWQ-1 Avenger
Image
Acquired along with FIM-92 Stingers in 1996


Tien Kung I / II (天弓一型防空飛彈/天弓二型防空飛彈)
Image
Tien Kung I service date: 1986 ; Tien Kung II service date: 1997

No. No more LR SAMs. Sorry.

MIM-104 Ai Kuo Che (愛國者; MIM-104 Patriot)
Image
Bought from the US in 1996

Still no.

Chieh Ling Fangkung Feitan Hsitung (捷羚防空飛彈系統; Antelope Air Defense System)
Image
Image
Image
Image
Platforms: CM-31 / Humvee / Truck

Equipped with Tien-Chien I (天剑一型; Sky Sword I)

Publicly revealed in 1997, officially in service in 2005.

That's very much marginal with the prototype dates, it's technically OOTF but could claim to be available in secret in 1991. I think it would be valuable to attempt to chase down a first-firing date.

Artillery: Mortar
Spoiler : :
CM-22 Armored Mortar Carrier (CM-22裝甲迫砲車)
Image
Armament: Type 63 120mm mortar (63式120毫米迫擊砲) / Type 62 107mm 4.2 inch mortar (62式4.2英寸迫擊砲)


CM23 Armored Mortar Carrier (CM-23裝甲迫砲車)
Image
Armament: T-75K1 81mm mortar (T-75 81毫米迫擊砲)

CM23A1 also exists, unknown difference from CM-23.


V-150S, M113 mounts for mortars also exist.

Artillery: Howitzer
Spoiler : :
M108
Image

M109 & M109A2
Image
Unknown service date, but before 1985 (Source: globalsecurity.org )


M110A2
Image
Bought from the US in 1981


XT-69 (XT-69榴彈炮) w/ M108 chassis
Image
Image
XT-69 is an indigenous howitzer manufactured from 1979 to 1982.

Unknown service date and number produced for M108-chassis mounted version, probably prototype


Unknown 155mm wheeled SPG
Image
Image
Designation, date of design and service unknown

Perhaps it's not exceptionally helpful but I found this: http://img3.yododo.com.cn/files/mark/ph ... 4A8066.jpg which looks like the original of your photo and is dated to 2011.

Also were in service but maybe too outdated?
M7 Priest

M44 Howitzer

M52 Howitzer

Artillery: Rocket
Spoiler : :
Kungfeng IV (工蜂四型多管火箭)
Image
Platforms: M113, LVTP-5-RL, jeeps, trucks


Kungfeng VI (工蜂六型多管火箭)
Image

Kungfeng VII (工蜂七型多管火箭)
Image
*IMAGE MIGHT NOT BE KUNGFENG VII
Almost no information aside from one Wikipedia page, apparently based on the American M270 MLRS


Leiting 2000 MLRS (雷霆2000多管火箭系統; Thunderbolt-2000 ; RT/LT-2000)
Image
Image
Introduced 1997

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TNK
MBT
Spoiler : :
M48H / CM-11 "Yung-Hu Shih" (勇虎式; Brave Tiger)
Image
A standard M60A3 tank hull merged with a M48A3 turret.

Main feature is the addition of an FCS from the M1A1 Abrams, granting it stabilizers, good first-shot accuracy and fire-on-the-move capability.
Image
ERA version exists but date of ERA introduction unknown


CM-12
Image
Modified M48A3, petrol engine replaced with diesel, new transmission, turret replaced with CM-11's turret along with the addition of fire control systems from the M1A1 Abrams.

Exterior-wise it resembles the M48A5, the interior is completely reworked, though loss of interior fuel storage space meant loss of operational range.

Service date: 1990


M60A3 TTS
Image

M48A1/A2/A3 Patton / M48 "A3" (A1改; Kai) / M48 "A5"
Image
In 1980 most M48A1s were modified with a new diesel engine and extra fuel capacity, as M48A1改 (M48A1 Kai). Though also called M48A3s, they were different from American produced A3s.

Also modernized into "M48A5" standards with a new M68 105mm gun, diesel engine and infrared NV systems. Designated as M48A5 but still has differences with the actual American A5.

Service date: 1973

It's a bit of a shame that there are no good tanks on offer but for Taiwan a super-duper MBT isn't really necessary.

Cavalry Tank
Spoiler : :
M-41D
Image
Features a newer engine giving it longer operational radius, a new targeting system and fire control system.

The gun is also changed from the original to a CLC (Combined Logistics Command; the ROC's primary R&D department) improved M32K1 gun, keeping the original caliber of 76mm.

Primary ammunition is Israeli-made M464 APFDS.

Mainly used in recon role due to lack of stabilizer

Introduced 1998

1998 is definitely beyond timeframe, I'm afraid. It's a shame because it sounds like a good machine. Could one of the Type 64s replace it in the recon tab?
Type 64 (六四式)
Image
(Not to be confused with another Taiwanese M41 Walker Bulldog modernization also named Type 64)

A M42 Duster hull merged with a M18 Hellcat turret, armament is a locally manufactured 76mm rifled gun, a coaxial 7.62mm MG and a mounted M2 HB.

Intended to be a cavalry tank, supplementing existing tanks of the army.

50+ made according to Wikipedia source


M41A3 Walker Bulldog
Image

"Type 64" (六四式) M-41A1 Walker Bulldog
Another "Type 64" on the basis on the M41 was also created, featuring improved fire controls, a new diesel engine, a new radio, a mounted T57 (Type 57; Locally made M60), applique armor on the turret, and sideskirts.

A new electrical system, and additional hull armor was also introduced.

Introduced in 1975


M24A1 Chaffee
Image
Modified M24s featuring a better engine and transmission and improved armor among some other minor changes were designated M24A1.

Also were in service but may be too outdated?
M41A1 Walker Bulldog

M24 Chaffee

M36 Jackson

M18 Hellcat

M5 Stuart

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
REC
Recon: Special Forces
Spoiler : :
UDT (海軍水中爆破隊; Underwater Demolition Team,U.D.T)

ARB-101 (中華民國陸軍101兩棲偵察營; Army 101st Amphibious Reconnaissance Battalion)
Goes by various names

1949: Chencha Tui (偵察隊; lit. Reconnaissance Team)

1953: Fan-kung Chiukuochun Haishangtuchitui (反共救國軍海上突擊隊; Anti-Communist National Salvation Army Marine Strike Team)

1954: Chengkung Tui (成功特種蛙人隊; 成功隊 ; Victory Frogmen or Victory Team)

1973: Hailong Wabing (海龍蛙兵; Sea Dragon Frogmen)

Nicknames: Shui-kuei (水鬼; Water Devils)

I vote Hailong Wabing actually, or possibly just Hailong. Sea Dragon sounds cooler than Water Devils.

Recon: Tank
Spoiler : :
M-41D

M24 & M24A1 Chaffee

Recon: Vehicle
Spoiler : :
Willys Jeep

V-150S

Humvee

Also were in service but maybe too outdated?
M8 Greyhound

Recon: Helicopter
Spoiler : :
OH-6A Cayuse
Used in recon role, unknown if used in other roles


OH-58D
Image
Delivered with AH-1W Supercobras in 1993

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
VHC
Transport
Spoiler : :
M113

V-150 & V-150S
Image

CM-21
Image
Image
Image

LVT4

LVTP5A1
Image

M733
Image
I have to say, I'm loving all of these USMC hand-me-downs. Taiwanese Marine is going to be a weird-ass deck.

CM-31
Image

HMMWV Humvee

Willys Jeep
Unknown role, probably recoilless rifle / ATGM platform or recon


UMM 4x4
Unknown role and service date

As in UMM of Portugal? Wow, that's really cool actually. I know a guy...

Broth3r wrote:Dude, this guy's getting Portugal's only unnecessary-but-nice-to-have model into the game, come quick!


Spoiler : :
Land Rover Defender
Unknown role and service date

Bought from the US after the Gulf War

Probably not really needed with the jeep, the Humvee and the Stronk Cournil of Great Design.

Fire Support
Spoiler : :
Type 51 106mm Recoiless Rifle (51式106公釐無後座力砲; based on M40A1 recoiless rifle)
Image

M40A1 Recoiless Rifle
Mounted on jeeps, unknown if mounted on CM-21 / M113


M733 w/recoilless rifle
Image

Tank Destroyer
Spoiler : :
CM-25 TOW 1/2 (CM-25拖式飛彈裝甲車)
Image

M113A1 TOW 1/2

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
HELI
Transport
Spoiler : :
UH-1H
Image

S-70C

Gunship
Spoiler : :
AH-1W Supercobra
Image
Service date: 1993

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
AIR
Finally, the bit I can help you with.
Spoiler : :
F-104A/B/D/G/J/DJ | RF-104G / TF-104G Hsing-shih (星式; Starfighter)
Image
I'd probably pick the most used variant and give it AIM-9Bs or something. Unless they were extensively used in the strike role I don't see any real reason to have more than one. The Recce variants are unarmed and the Trainers would need a new model when there are a million different possible names for the aircraft. I like the translated name to differentiate it from the other Starfighters in the game, that's a nice way of sorting out the name identicality issue.

F-5A/B Tzu-you Chanshih(自由戰士; Freedom Fighter) | F-5E/F Hu-Erh Shih (虎II式; Tiger II)
Image
Correct me if I'm wrong, I think the Tiger IIs were capable of using LGBs. It's something I'll take a look at on SIPRI when I have some time. Anyway, the A can provide Cat-C iron bombs while the E and F give you Mavericks and possibly LGBs.

RF-101A Wutu (巫毒; Voodoo)
Image
Used as recon, unsure if used in other roles

Probably not, the radar and cannons were replaced by cameras and I doubt they were armed at all.

AIDC AT-3
Image
It's indigenous and in time frame, which makes me want to include it, but it has no ECM and a crap payload. Probably best off as a rocket attacker.

AIDC F-CK-1 A/B Ching-Kuo (經國號戰機)
Image
Also known as Indigenous Defense Fighter (IDF)

Multirole fighter program introduced in January 1994. (First flight : May 28, 1989) [Wikipedia Sources]

Equipped with indigenous armament like Tien-Chien I (天劍一型飛彈) and II (天劍二型飛彈) AAMs.

SEAD version with anti-radiation variant of Tien-Chien II missile exists although service date of anti-rad missile unknown (天劍二型飛彈; Sky Sword II)

I think the ARM variant is very, very late, which is a shame. Still, it's a capable ASF.

F-16A/B Block 20 Peace Fenghuang (F-16批次20 「和平鳳凰」)
Image
Procurement program named Peace Fenghuang (和平鳳凰 ; Ho'ping Fenghuang; Peace Phoenix), akin to the South Korean 'Peace Bridge'

Developed for the Republic of China Air Force from 1991 to 1997.


http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article19.html That is the finest cut of the prototype timeframe I've ever seen but 5 aircraft were delivered just before 1997 so it's technically allowed.

Mirage 2000-5 5EI/5DI
Image
Image
Wikipedia source says the versions sold to the ROCAF had anti-ground capability removed

I'm pretty sure these are OOTF. I'll have a proper go through of the whole air tab when I'm not knackered but I thought I'd get this out now because nobody's replied to you in two days and if I keep saying "I'm busy now" I'll never post anything.

Also were in service but maybe too outdated?
F-86D/F Sabre
F-84G Thunderjet
F-100 Super Sabre

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAV
Spoiler : :
:lol:
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Re: [Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

Postby Eiya » Wed 15 Mar 2017 03:18

Thanks for your reply!
Cash and controversy, as always with things that'll upset the PRC. Still, they can't shut us down when we're only speculating ;).

True, though censor wise they're going to ban anything that remotely shows the PLA losing, especially with Japan in the mix. So IMO it's pretty pointless to care about it w

In terms of other options it's usual to chuck in whichever jeep Taiwan had plenty of in 1980, some sort of tank (probably an M48 Kai or similar), a light role helicopter (perhaps the Cayuse) and an infantry CV

If I remember right I did see info regarding M48, CM-11 and CM-12s allocated to HQ battalions so maybe they served as command tanks(?)
I try to leave out most of the more redundant common sense options like recon jeeps, command tank/jeeps/humvees etc from the listing for simplicity (though I think I probably shouldn't now)
--------------
I like this system. I have two big questions: Is it intended for an anti-aircraft role and are the Humvees also used for other stuff at the same time? I think this could be a lot of fun in the recon tab.

For the T-75 autocannon, it was intended as multipurpose fire support , used for anti-air and anti-ground (According to Wikipedia, the army wanted it mainly for anti-air). As for the T-75M Humvees I have no idea really.
Motorise it on a truck if you're really low on options but I don't see this being considerably better than the Duster unless it has advanced fire control systems.

On the T82, no info on FCSes
--------------
V-150 Chap is cool, do you have a picture of how it fitted on?

No pictures on V-150S with the Chaparral for now, I mostly stumble upon pictures of some stuff that's listed like the M113-mounted Kungfeng and the XT-69 on M108 chassis by pure luck...information and pictures of the ROC military in the Cold War is just extremely hard to find, even on Chinese sites.
--------------
Perhaps it's not exceptionally helpful but I found this: http://img3.yododo.com.cn/files/mark/ph ... 4A8066.jpg which looks like the original of your photo and is dated to 2011.

That's the original of the photo, it was taken during an army showcase in 2011, but I'm mainly curious on whether it's developed in the Cold War or a more modern project. I have no idea what the SPG is called, the writing is too blurry on the sign in the photo to read.
--------------
I vote Hailong Wabing actually, or possibly just Hailong. Sea Dragon sounds cooler than Water Devils.

Hailong definitely sounds better, I thought about removing the redundant translation (Wabing; frogmen) in this case but I just left it in because why not asdf
--------------
(On Mirages) I'm pretty sure these are OOTF.

On the Mirage 2000-5, the first batch was delivered in 1997 (Might be OOTF but in-game units went from 1945 - 1996 if I remember right)
--------------
Sidenote:
It was the Humvee that was supposed to be bought after the Gulf War and not the LR Defender, screwed up the formatting again...

Aside from that I have a question, hoping for a dev answer maybe

Are the units in-game added based on their date of service or their date of design? (completion; initial operational capability)
Last edited by Eiya on Wed 15 Mar 2017 18:08, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

Postby Eiya » Wed 15 Mar 2017 04:10

Another thing that I thought of is that in the context of RD, how should units like the F-16 be treated?

From info I could find, Taiwan has been lobbying for those ever since they were in service with the US military in 1970, but the deal was frozen because of The Three Joint Communiqués between the PRC and the US. Then only until the 1990s did they finally decide to sell us F-16s.

But in the context of a cold-war gone hot they probably would've sold us those F-16s, along with lots of other gear that Taiwan requested for sale over the years. (Like the M8 AGS for example; the US agreed to the sale but never shipped any)

EDIT: Added section on Kunwu ATGM (Malyutka copy) in OP list
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Re: [Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

Postby Eiya » Wed 15 Mar 2017 11:46

Service dates given more detail & list update.

Campaign and coalition ideas added in OP.


Highlights:
Spoiler : :
Tien-Kung II
Service date (*Mass production started; Wikipedia source): 1997

MIM-72 Chaparral
M113 mount (Wikipedia)

M109A1B & M109A2
Service date 1982 (Globalsecurity & Wikipedia)

M60A3TTS
160 in service with the ROC Army in 1992, with 300 more bought in 1996. (Wikipedia)

CM-11
Designed 1984, first made 1988, in service 1990
*Wikipedia M48 Patton article says CM-11s were first made in 1986.

M-41D
Development started 1996; introduced 1998

Type 64 (M24 + Hellcat)
Introduced 1975

F-104
Procurement program named Alishan Program (阿里山计划), ranges from "Alishan 1 (阿里山1號)" to "Alishan 11 (阿里山11號)"

First variant delivered was F-104A / B in 1960;

F-104G first recieved 1963

F-104D first recieved 1976

F-104J / DJ first recieved 1987

F-5 A/B Tzu-you Chanshih (自由戰士; Freedom Fighter) & F-5E/F Hu-Erh Shih / Peace Tiger (虎II式; Tiger II | Procurement program named Peace Tiger)
F-5A first delivered 1965.

F-5E/F locally manufactured in Taiwan by AIDC under Northrop license

F-5E : First manufactured 1974

F-5F : First manufactured 1979

F-100 Chaochi Chuntao (F-100 超級軍刀 ; Super Sabre)
First delivered 1958

AIDC AT-3 Tzu Chung (自強)
First flight 1980, introduced 1984

S-70C
Delivered 1986

UH-1H
Manufactured in conjunction with AIDC (Hanhsiang; 漢翔; developer of F-CK-1), 1970


EDIT: More information regarding AIDC AT-3 added in main list.
EDIT 2: Elaborated information on F-CK-1 Ching-Kuo
EDIT 3: Improvements here and there and section on anti-ship missiles added.
Last edited by Eiya on Wed 15 Mar 2017 17:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

Postby Eiya » Wed 15 Mar 2017 16:58

I think I may have found another possible information source, though one that may or may not be reliable...the database of Command: MANO

It does bring in some quite interesting information like Redeye, Mistral-1 MANPADS being used by the army and within the timeframe. (1976 for Redeye; 1995 for Mistral I)
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Re: [Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 15 Mar 2017 17:06

Eiya wrote:I think I may have found another possible information source, though one that may or may not be reliable...the database of Command: MANO

It does bring in some quite interesting information like Redeye, Mistral-1 MANPADS being used by the army and within the timeframe. (1976 for Redeye; 1995 for Mistral I)

I use C:MANO a lot for this sort of stuff, it's not perfect by a long shot (misses a bunch of stuff and occsionally totally screws up and lists R-60Ts as a real weapon or something) but it's really handy to get going and it's generally better than Wiki, especially since it gives rough into-service dates and includes upgrades.

The other really handy source you can use is SIPRI, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. They try to get information on every arms deal that's happened between 1950 and today and then put it in a public database. It'll generally give you dates and numbers of items delivered but it has its own inaccuracies and won't catch domestic production of stuff. Basically, cross check everything with as many sources as you can. You also have the great advantage, I assume, of being able to read local sources. That's generally a great aid and if there's anything you're unsure about you can usually ask guys who were in the army at the time on your local defence forums.
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Re: [Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

Postby Eiya » Fri 17 Mar 2017 17:20

Some image sources for anyone interested
尖端科技軍事圖庫
Good source on photos, models in service etc.
(Covers militaries of all nations, not just the ROC/Taiwan; prepare Google-Translate-Fu if you don't know Chinese)

Military fair album
Features a lot of images, a lot, this took forever to look through...
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Re: [Non-Included Nation] Republic of China (Taiwan)

Postby Eiya » Mon 20 Mar 2017 08:00

Added a lot of information on rocket artillery systems

EDIT: Added info on CM-21 & CM-31 APC series
Wheeled 155mm SPG removed as new info I dug up points to it being a post-2000 development, inspired by the French CAESAR
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