Flight sim advice

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Xeno426
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Re: Flight sim advice

Postby Xeno426 » Fri 14 Jul 2017 20:57

Vulcan 607 wrote:Guys is it weird I want to see Star Wars Tie fighter done like falcon 4 bms?

It would be a bit odd, if only because the system operations on the F-16 is very deep and complex, and I don't see anything quite so deep coming into play in any space sim (even though it would make sense for such advanced weapons of war to be similarly complex). I can't see a company going into that much detail, especially when they'd have to completely make up all these subsystems.

However, the closest thing I've found in a rewardingly complex space sim was I've Found Her, a fan-made Babylon 5 game made using the Freespace 2 engine. It stands out because of its physics; they are full Newtonian, and in advanced flight mode you can spin around while maintaining your vector (this is the best way to attack things like stations). You use fuel to change vector (accelerate, change direction, etc), and the "radar" screen is one of the better displays of a 3D battlespace I've seen. G-force effects are also modeled.

They also made traveling through hyperspace quite interesting.
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Re: Flight sim advice

Postby Killertomato » Fri 14 Jul 2017 21:23

Xeno426 wrote:It would be a bit odd, if only because the system operations on the F-16 is very deep and complex, and I don't see anything quite so deep coming into play in any space sim (even though it would make sense for such advanced weapons of war to be similarly complex).


No real reason for them to be, though. Any society that could actually make something like a TIE fighter in real life is probably capable of automating the fighter's systems to such an extent that flying it might resemble playing Ace Combat. I mean, hell, the Raptor's way more complicated than an F-4E, but it does everything, better than the Phantom, with one pilot instead of a pilot/WSO.

Of course, they'd probably just make them unmanned anyway.

For something more simple (armed MiG-105/X-20, anyone?) I could easily see F-16+ levels of complexity, though.
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Re: Flight sim advice

Postby Xeno426 » Fri 14 Jul 2017 21:47

Killertomato wrote:I mean, hell, the Raptor's way more complicated than an F-4E, but it does everything, better than the Phantom, with one pilot instead of a pilot/WSO.

You'd still be looking at sensor and system complexity up there with the F-16. That's a hell of a lot more complicated than any space sim has attempted.

I can guarantee you that the MFD menu and sensor system onboard the F-22 is going to be very complex. I mean, look at that cockpit. All those white buttons around the MFDs? Their function changes with the mode of the that particular MFD.
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Re: Flight sim advice

Postby TFdude15 » Fri 14 Jul 2017 22:24

Somewhat related to this thread, but Belsimtek announced they are going to work more on their Mi-24P and start developing the F-4E after the F/A-18C is completed. According to information given by the team, from the Belsimtek DCS forums, it will likely be a USAF late 1970s/early 1980s F-4E.

Link to announcement:
https://belsimtek.com/news/1785/
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Re: Flight sim advice

Postby Xeno426 » Fri 14 Jul 2017 22:27

I look more forward to the Mi-24P, though it's a shame we can't get the Mi-24VP (give the gunner something more to do than guiding missiles).

The F-4E is pretty cool, though I'd love to see a MiG-23MLD to accompany it. At the very least we'll finally get an updated F-4E model. :lol:
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Re: Flight sim advice

Postby TFdude15 » Fri 14 Jul 2017 23:04

Xeno426 wrote:I look more forward to the Mi-24P, though it's a shame we can't get the Mi-24VP (give the gunner something more to do than guiding missiles).

The F-4E is pretty cool, though I'd love to see a MiG-23MLD to accompany it. At the very least we'll finally get an updated F-4E model. :lol:


RAZBAM tried to make a MiG-23MLA, but ED forced them to cancel the project only days after being announced due to reasons that cannot be disclosed (NDA).

Post related to the announcement: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p= ... tcount=155
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Re: Flight sim advice

Postby Mephistopheles » Sat 15 Jul 2017 01:30

StalkerDellaNote wrote:I don't quite understand what you mean, maybe I'm a bit dull. What's Microsoft have to do with force feedback? I have racing wheels out the ass with force feedback.. Thrustmaster ones at that.. Microsoft owns a force feedback patent on sticks?


FYI...DCS has now a huge summer sale during this weekend with 50% off on all products ecept M2000C and WWII Assets


Xeno426 wrote:Yeah, the US HUDs tend to favor plenty of information, which can be very overwhelming until you're used to it. The AJS 37 is similarly sparse in terms of HUD symbology.
And the Mirage 2000C pays for that instantaneous turn capability by sacrificing sustained turn ability; it bleeds energy like crazy.

On a side note, I hope I'm not being too rude by pointing out that
than: comparing two objects by quality (this car is smaller than that truck)
then: comparing two objects or events in time (he got out of the car, then put on his coat)


Yeah true that. But dogfighting a mirage on higher altitudes is even for a SU27 very dangerous....in DCS.
it is fun flying the M2000C against good pilots. Sadly too often kids ruin it by flying F-15C armed with nothing else than 10x Aim 120 and firing more than 3 Aim-120 on you till one hits.
I use TacView to analyse my flights and in one incident that guy fired 7 Aim-120C!
An Advantage of the M2000C is that u can configure and set your own waypoints sadly the FC3 F-15C and Su27 can not
I dont mind if u point them out. I am aware of that diffrence but too often my fingers type faster than my head is translating german into english.

Xeno426 wrote:
Yeah, the original Black Mamba isn't available anymore, which is a shame because it had so many switches and stuff on the base of the stick. Personally, I'd love to see a full Su-27S HOTAS or PAK-FA HOTAS (sure, I know there won't be a Su-50 sim, but that HOTAS is pretty nice looking).
Of course, it would be nice to have a late Cold War Soviet jet to go with such a HOTAS...


Yea but they also phased out that base. The Base intendended for the WW2 Flightstick "Galdiator" seems now to be the standard base for all other Flightsticks. I might try this new one out. I would really love a rafale style Throttle...sits a single piece hardware and its huge. u can lay ur hands horizontally or wrap them arround like a fightstick vertically. Since its a single-seater multi-perpose jet these might be aditional weapons, radar, FLIR controls. I would love those extra buttons, switches and axis.


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I would love for a return of force feedback sticks that also have springs for when FF is turned off or at least a software mode to emulate resistance. I used the 1st Microsoft sidewinder force feedback when it came out and it felt great especially flying helicopters and when starting up the engines. the Stick used to swing out circular till engine was running. Was a great experience!
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Re: Flight sim advice

Postby Mephistopheles » Sat 15 Jul 2017 01:33

Mephistopheles wrote:
StalkerDellaNote wrote:I don't quite understand what you mean, maybe I'm a bit dull. What's Microsoft have to do with force feedback? I have racing wheels out the ass with force feedback.. Thrustmaster ones at that.. Microsoft owns a force feedback patent on sticks?


FYI...DCS has now a huge summer sale during this weekend with 50% off on all products ecept M2000C and WWII Assets


Sorry its from today until the 24th July!!!!
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Re: Flight sim advice

Postby Xeno426 » Sat 15 Jul 2017 02:25

Mephistopheles wrote:Yeah true that. But dogfighting a mirage on higher altitudes is even for a SU27 very dangerous....in DCS.
it is fun flying the M2000C against good pilots. Sadly too often kids ruin it by flying F-15C armed with nothing else than 10x Aim 120 and firing more than 3 Aim-120 on you till one hits.

Um, the F-15C can only have eight missiles totals.

Incidentally, spamming missiles is kinda why the Su-27 and Su-33 have so many pylons; launch one missile as soon as the target is in range to force it defensive, then follow up several seconds later as you get closer. Even if the enemy launches an AIM-120C, you can do a lot of course changes while keeping the target within your radar scope, and if he waits too long to start making defensive maneuvers then he's toast. If you can get into knife fight range, the HMS and R-73 give you a distinct advantage in the furball.

Of course, you have to contend with a radar that has a slower refresh rate for popup targets and less capable SA than its F-15C opponent. At least you can pick up the enemy and lock him up before he's within range of his AIM-120s, something the poor MiG-29S can't say. :lol:

Speaking of, I was annoyed when they removed the "tactical" view from the MiG-29's HDD. Sure, I know it was only ever used as a HUD repeater, but at least put in GCI assisted intercept before removing that feature. :(
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Re: Flight sim advice

Postby Sleksa » Sat 15 Jul 2017 12:32

Xeno426 wrote:
Mephistopheles wrote:Yeah true that. But dogfighting a mirage on higher altitudes is even for a SU27 very dangerous....in DCS.
it is fun flying the M2000C against good pilots. Sadly too often kids ruin it by flying F-15C armed with nothing else than 10x Aim 120 and firing more than 3 Aim-120 on you till one hits.

Um, the F-15C can only have eight missiles totals.

Incidentally, spamming missiles is kinda why the Su-27 and Su-33 have so many pylons; launch one missile as soon as the target is in range to force it defensive, then follow up several seconds later as you get closer. Even if the enemy launches an AIM-120C, you can do a lot of course changes while keeping the target within your radar scope, and if he waits too long to start making defensive maneuvers then he's toast. If you can get into knife fight range, the HMS and R-73 give you a distinct advantage in the furball.

Of course, you have to contend with a radar that has a slower refresh rate for popup targets and less capable SA than its F-15C opponent. At least you can pick up the enemy and lock him up before he's within range of his AIM-120s, something the poor MiG-29S can't say. :lol:

Speaking of, I was annoyed when they removed the "tactical" view from the MiG-29's HDD. Sure, I know it was only ever used as a HUD repeater, but at least put in GCI assisted intercept before removing that feature. :(


The problem with the su-27/33 vs f-15 in dcs is that in the situation you described (su and f-15 going for a medieval jousting run in the sky) the F-15 never has to commit or risk himself for that kill.

In that jousting scenario, F-15 pops out the amraam at max range and waits until it goes active, and then turns and runs. Now the situation for the su is that he can either keep going towards certain death (amraams do not care about chaff, ecm or much of dodging maneuvers dcs) in an effort to connect his R-27 (which is becoming slimmer and slimmer as the F-15 flies further and further away), or he can try to save himself by also turning away and trying to outrun the amraam (the only real way to avoid one in dcs).

The F-15 in dcs is basically what a F-15 is in red dragon, while the su-27 & co are more like mig-21's of wargame due to the simplified systems. The F-15's radar can sometimes see a su-27 from 100 miles away, and requires no input from the player (you can do manual adjustments for it, but largely you don't need to do much of anything else besides turning it on and locking onto targets that you see). In fact, you can also lock onto targets with the radar with the power cut off from the plane. It's also extremely good at tracking targets even if they're moving sideways. On top of the radar advantage, the F-15 stock mp experience usually involves triple fuel tanks, and you can keep the plane on low afterburner for more or less 30-50 mins in a normal match.

In comparison the su-27 radar requires a lot of manual input from the player, after which you can normally expect to see targets at maybe 40-60 miles away in good circumstances. It's also largely unable to track a target as soon as the target is flying in any sort sideways angle, after which finding the target again can be a real pain. The Su also comes with a decent amount of fuel, but realistically you can't expect to fly in afterburner for more than 5-10 minutes, after which you'll be limping back to base on fumes.

What this means is that the F-15 has all the advantages in the world. It can see the enemies from far off, requires next to none attention to using it's systems, can afterburn continuously for more or less the entirety of it's combat flight without problems, can choose whether he wants to risk himself or not, but he'll still be able to get kills if he chooses to go for the 0 risk fire-active-run-and-reset kinda playstyle and while having a larger pool of missiles than the su, also generally shoots far less of them per kill than the su-27/33, which need one far off-shot to try and bait the enemy into defensive, a second to keep him there and then a third to try and secure the kill if the enemy for some reason is still hanging around.

The only real advantage the Su has is in a blusterduck situation with the helmet sight and R-73, as well as the ET missiles and the IR scanning system where you can attempt to do some creative ambushing by hiding inside the canyons (radars can still sometimes see through terrain in dcs though) and trying to lob the (2)ET's at people flying above or past you. However this isn't really an easy process either as the IR scanner doesn't show IFF, so you need to burst your radar to try and see if the target you found is friendly or not, during which the IR scanner might lose track of the target for good. The Et missiles themselves aren't that good either, and to dodge one all you generally need to do is to turn your plane sideways from it for it to lose track.

Basically:
Playing the F-15 is playing sky cs with an aimbot and speed/wall hack
Playing the Su-27/33 is playing sky cs with an access to ak
Playing the Mirage is playing sky cs with an access to some poor man's smg
Playing the Mig-21/F-5 is playing sky cs against aimbotters with a default pistol
Playing the viggen/kamov 50 is playing sky cs against aimbotters without a mouse and with a knife only
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