Xeno's air tabs changes

captaincarnage
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby captaincarnage » Sun 23 Apr 2017 23:06

Tiera wrote:
captaincarnage wrote:Their are a fair few planes with unjustifiably bad turning circles in game too, looking at you jaguar and hornet.

What if I told you that Hornets out-turn nearly all ASFs in-game?


Mind blown :shock:

That's taking hidden stats to a whole new level :|
I hope your buratino's die screaming.

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Mike
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Mike » Tue 25 Apr 2017 03:13

Xeno426 wrote:
  • 1000L extra internal fuel capacity
  • A thousand liters less internal fuel capacity.


Wait a minute here.
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Xeno426
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Xeno426 » Tue 25 Apr 2017 06:41

Mike wrote:Wait a minute here.

Yup. At different blocks, they increased fuel and then later removed it 'cause they needed the space and weight.
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Steamfunk » Wed 26 Apr 2017 16:24

Very interesting. I should think that at least the addition of Beryoza and Chaika could allow for an additional name; perhaps the "Su-24 Beryoza" and/or "Su-24 Chaika" (although that carries it's own BMPT style misidentification problems). Are there any Su-24 specific loadouts we're missing out on?


The SPO-15 was simply a replacement for the SPO-10/Sirena 3M RWR with wider bandwidth coverage and some digital components - both use superheterodyne receivers. This was a standard upgrade for all Soviet aircraft in the late 70s, the US had a mishmash of older crystal video units and more advanced designs like the ALR-56 on the F-15 and Block 50/52 F-16. Chaika is just a bombsight which could look forward enough to launch missiles, and only during daylight. The probable weapons load for an early Su-24 would be dumb bombs or command-guided missiles such as the Kh-23, a laser designator could be carried on one of the wing pylons. I've seen some references to the TP-23 as a low light designator but that's an IRST, originally carried by the MiG-23.

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Xeno426
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Xeno426 » Mon 17 Jul 2017 17:26

Since I got tired of trying to find this info over and over again for people, I'm putting it here for future reference. I'm copying this from a different post.


So, there was a discussion about cluster bombs on the forums that had some good points. Mainly, that clusters are rather marginal. Part of this is due to the fact that they don't damage or kill infantry, which can't be easily addressed without doing something like adding a new damage table to the game (or perhaps making the really low AP values of the AP table act in a special way against infantry to cause them damage, which could also work). There's also the issue that all clusters are basically the same, which itself is a bit of a tragedy. I collected data on various cluster bombs/munitions, both those used in the game and those not present, as a baseline for setting up some new cluster guidelines.

So, collected info on cluster bombs used in the game. I have included clusters not already in the game as well. In general, NATO nations (particularly US) seem to have gone for smaller bomblets that let them pack more into a container, while the Soviets went for fewer bomblets that were bigger.

In general, the advantage of cluster bombs was that they had a much larger area of effect than a typical iron bomb, and so were far more useful against things like infantry and light vehicles, and some had decent enough anti-armor capabilities to be threatening to even tanks. This data should be useful for setting up rules for bomb AOE and AP damage, depending on bomblet size and the number carried. For simplicity, I think either three or four categories should be used for AP damage and AOE size.

As a note, a few bombs I'm not sure on the year they were in service. Any help would be appreciated.

BLUEFOR bombs

Spoiler : BLU clusters :
CBU-24B/B
Year: <1966
Type: anti-personnel/anti-material
Mass, kg: ~370
Bomblet kg: 0.435
Bomblet #: 665

CBU-58/B
Year: <1975
Type: anti-personnel/anti-material
Mass, kg: ~350
Bomblet kg: 0.45
Bomblet #: 650

CBU-59/B
Year: <1975
Type: anti-personnel/anti-material
Mass, kg: ~347
Bomblet kg: 0.46
Bomblet #: 717

CBU-75/B
Year: <1975
Type: anti-personnel/anti-material
Mass, kg: ~890
Bomblet kg: 0.45
Bomblet #: 1800
Notes: Could be fitted with the KMU-421/B laser-guidance kit, making it the GBU-2/B Pave Storm.

CBU-87/B
Year: 1986
Type: anti-personnel, anti-armour, incendiary
Mass, kg: 430
Bomblet kg: 1.54
Bomblet #: 202

CBU-97/B
Year: 1992
Type: anti-armor
Mass, kg: 416
Bomblet kg: 3.4
Bomblet #: 40 (10 BLU-108/B, each with four "skeets")
Note: "Skeets" home in on targets.

Mk.20/CBU-100/B Rockeye
Year: 1968
Type: anti-tank/anti-material
Mass, kg: 227
Bomblet kg: 0.6
Bomblet #: 247

BLG-66
Year: 1979
Type: anti-armor/anti-material/anti-runway
Mass, kg: 290
Bomblet kg: 1.3 (three kinds)
Bomblet #: 151
Notes: Typically 40x240m or 40x120m area.

BL-755 No.1 Mk.1
Year: 1972
Type: anti-armor/anti-personnel
Mass, kg: 264
Bomblet kg: 1
Bomblet #: 147
Notes: Typically 30x100m to 60x150m area. 250mm armor penetration on bomblets.

BL-755 No.2 Mk.1 (aka IBL-755)
Year: 1986
Type: anti-armor/anti-personnel
Mass, kg: 264
Bomblet kg: 1.13kg
Bomblet #: 147
Notes: 300mm armor penetration on bomblets

MW-1
Year: 1985
Type: Cluster dispenser
Mass, kg: 5000
Bomblet kg: ~0.5 (KB44)
Bomblet #: 4536 (KB44)
Notes: 112 tubes that can be loaded with five different munitions; anti-material/anti-personnel KB44, anti-runway STABO, and three different mines.

TAL-1
Year: ≤1981
Type: anti-personnel/anti-material
Mass, kg: 220
Bomblet kg: 0.5
Bomblet #: 270
Notes: Revealed in 1981

TAL-2
Year: 1983
Type: anti-personnel/anti-material
Mass, kg: 250
Bomblet kg: 0.4
Bomblet #: 315

Bombkapsel m/90/DWS 39 Mjölner
Year: ????
Type: anti-armor or anti-personnel
Mass, kg: 600
Bomblet kg: 18kg (anti-armor)
Bomblet #: 72
Notes: DWS 16 is 400kg, DWS 40 is 1000kg, DWS 60 is 1400kg.


REDFOR bombs
Spoiler : RED clusters :
Type 250-1
Year: 1970
Type: anti-armor/anti-material
Mass, kg: 214
Bomblet kg: 5
Bomblet #: 28

Type 250-2
Year: c. 1970's
Type: anti-armor/anti-material
Mass, kg: 227
Bomblet kg: 0.6
Bomblet #: 247

Type 250-3
Year: late 80's
Type: anti-armor/anti-personnel
Mass, kg: 264
Bomblet kg: 1
Bomblet #: 147
Notes: Typically 30x100m to 60x150m area. 250mm armor penetration on bomblets.

RBK-500 ShOAB 0.5M
Year: 1980
Type: anti-personnel/anti-material
Mass, kg: 395
Bomblet kg: ~0.5
Bomblet #: 546

RBK-250 AO-1
Year: 1955
Type: anti-personnel/anti-material
Mass, kg: 190
Bomblet kg: 1
Bomblet #: 150

RBK-250-275 AO-1SCh
Year: 1960
Type: anti-personnel
Mass, kg: 273
Bomblet kg: 1.2
Bomblet #: 150

RBK-500-375 AO-10
Year: 1955
Type: GP high explosive
Mass, kg: 375
Bomblet kg: 8.97
Bomblet #: 30

RBK-500 AO-2.5RT
Year: 1973
Type: anti-personnel/anti-material
Mass, kg: 325
Bomblet kg: 2.8
Bomblet #: 60

RBK-500 AO-2.5RTM
Year: >1973
Type: anti-personnel/anti-material
Mass, kg: 504
Bomblet kg: 2.5
Bomblet #: 108

RBC 500-255 PTAB-2.5
Year: c. 1960
Type: anti-armor/anti-material
Mass, kg: 226
Bomblet kg: ~2.5
Bomblet #: 50

RBK-250 PTAB-2.5M
Year: ????
Type: anti-armor
Mass, kg: 248
Bomblet kg: 2.8
Bomblet #: 42
Notes: Can be carried by Il-28 (4), MiG-19 (2), MiG-21F-13 (2), and Su-7B (4)

RBK-500 PTAB-1M
Year: ????
Type: anti-armor/anti-material
Mass, kg: 427
Bomblet kg: 0.94
Bomblet #: 268

RBK-500-255 PTAB-10-5
Year: 1959
Type: anti-armor/anti-material
Mass, kg: 253
Bomblet kg: 5
Bomblet #: 30

RBK-500U PTAB-1M
Year: ????
Type: anti-armor/anti-material
Mass, kg: 520
Bomblet kg: 0.94
Bomblet #: 352

RBK-500U PTAB-2.5M
Year: ????
Type: anti-armor/anti-material
Mass, kg: 520
Bomblet kg: 2.8
Bomblet #: 75

RBK-500 ZAB
Year: ???
Type: anti-material/incendiary
Mass, kg: 480
Bomblet kg: 2.7 (ZAB-2.5P/PR), 0.19 (ZAB-0.15) OR ~2.5 (ZAB-2.5SM)
Bomblet #: 93 (ZAB-2.5P), 24 (ZAB-2.5PR), 180 (ZAB-0.15) OR 117 ZAB-2.5SM

RBK-500U SPBE
Year: 1991
Type: anti-armor
Mass, kg: ~500
Bomblet kg: 4.5
Bomblet #: 15
Notes: Sensor-fuzed weapon
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damoj
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby damoj » Sun 23 Jul 2017 06:34

Should cluster just have its AP value removed and be given ~200 or so 6 or 7 HE bomblets?

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Steamfunk » Sun 23 Jul 2017 20:08

Should cluster just have its AP value removed and be given ~200 or so 6 or 7 HE bomblets?


The majority are anti-armour, the rest are about the same size as frag grenades - http://www.iwm.org.uk_www.iwm.org.uk/co ... t/30019796

For reference, an L15 heavy artillery round contains 11 kilos of explosive and has a damage radius of about 55m. My guess is that HE cluster munitions would be used to slow down enemy forces - they would probably mess up soft-skinned vehicles and materials ('mess up' = mobility kill).

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby thelizardofdoom » Sun 30 Jul 2017 20:53

HE cluster bombs would be OP there is no way around that.
Yes im aware my grammar and spelling are dreadful. Email complaints to android for having terrible software or eugen for having a mobile unfriendly site.

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Xeno426 » Mon 31 Jul 2017 01:11

thelizardofdoom wrote:HE cluster bombs would be OP there is no way around that.

It's more likely they'd be rather useless. IIRC, Narcicistic Black's mod did that
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby chykka » Mon 31 Jul 2017 10:44

The American's never put guns on the F-4 Phantom II, so is the pod actually as good as an on board gun? I say this because the vulcan is probably the best in game gun for planes. While Irl I believe the F-4 was designed as a interceptor to rely more on missiles. Unless The newer models of it all have the internal gun correct? All the old ones could use the pod maybe at reduced speed, or autonomy?
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