quick PSA about veterancy and ECM

nande
Lieutenant
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue 30 Sep 2014 02:31
Contact:

quick PSA about veterancy and ECM

Postby nande » Wed 2 Sep 2015 15:50

check out this graph. It shows the chance-to-hit of different accuracies with varying vet and target ECM
Spoiler : here's a guide for reading it if you're confused :
elipson wrote:The top line of each colour represents the chance to hit for the plane with elite vet, the bottom line represents the chance to hit for the plane with rookie vet, and there are three un-displayed lines in between denoting the middle three veterancies (starting point is the "+" sign, with roughly the same slope)

A rookie plane with 50% acc has a 50% chance to hit a plane with 0 ECM, and a 31% chance to hit a plane with 40% ECM.

The same Trained plane with have a 50% chance to hit a plane with 10% ECM .

The elite plane with 50% acc will have a 50% chance to hit a plane with 40% ECM and a 73% chance to hit a plane with 0 ECM.
The graph's made on the assumption that displayed CTH is correct.

Hopefully it shows that acc*vet*(1-ecm) is a shoddy formula for theorycrafting. This is only empirical data, so help in finding the true formula would be most welcome.

Spoiler : additional info :
more cluttered graph versions with discrete lines for vet ~ with more accuracies
the sheet:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/WGV1/d ... 242787378/

anti-plane vet modifiers are 0, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4 according to mod tools, and are different from those for ground units. However, tweaking the values produces no visible effect
ecm is shown in the files as -0.x
zero and negative accuracies act as though they're 100%
Last edited by nande on Thu 21 Apr 2016 20:16, edited 13 times in total.

User avatar
Mister Maf
Lieutenant
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sun 15 Dec 2013 23:15
Contact:

Re: quick PSA about aircraft veterancy and ECM

Postby Mister Maf » Wed 2 Sep 2015 22:02

Walk me through how to read this. Am I seeing that a rookie plane whose missile displays 50% accuracy in the armory (the orange lines) has between a 50-70% chance to hit a target with 0 ECM, and an elite plane has between a 31-50% chance to hit a target with 40% ECM? It's very confusing and I don't know where you even got these numbers from.
Image

elipson
Sergeant
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun 13 Apr 2014 19:05
Contact:

Re: quick PSA about aircraft veterancy and ECM

Postby elipson » Wed 2 Sep 2015 22:41

The top line of each colour represents the chance to hit for the plane with elite vet, the bottom line represents the chance to hit for the plane with rookie vet, and there are three un-displayed lines in between denoting the middle three veterancies (starting point is the "+" sign, with roughly the same slope)

A rookie plane with 50% acc has a 50% chance to hit a plane with 0 ECM, and a 31% chance to hit a plane with 40% ECM.

The same Trained plane with have a 50% chance to hit a plane with 10% ECM .

The elite plane with 50% acc will have a 50% chance to hit a plane with 40% ECM and a 73% chance to hit a plane with 0 ECM.

Looks like the information was taken from the formula of (accuracy )x(1-ECM ). For example, .50 x (1-.10) = .45 = 45%

(Finally my stats classes have become useful!!!)

brroleg
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue 3 Dec 2013 07:05
Location: Ukraine
Contact:

Re: quick PSA about aircraft veterancy and ECM

Postby brroleg » Wed 2 Sep 2015 23:08

So, how good is elite mig25 with its 40% missiles against 50% ecm?

nande
Lieutenant
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue 30 Sep 2014 02:31
Contact:

Re: quick PSA about aircraft veterancy and ECM

Postby nande » Wed 2 Sep 2015 23:51

brroleg wrote:So, how good is elite mig25 with its 40% missiles against 50% ecm?
33% chance of hitting. 1% higher than that of a 60% accuracy rookie like the MiG-29M.
You can find it all on the third graph (if you search hard enough!)
elipson wrote:The top line of each colour represents the chance to hit for the plane with elite vet, the bottom line represents the chance to hit for the plane with rookie vet, and there are three un-displayed lines in between denoting the middle three veterancies (starting point is the "+" sign, with roughly the same slope)
yes, spot on.

But just to clarify, this is only empirical data. I haven't yet found the true formula.
Accuracy * (1+vet modifier+ECM) is a better approximation than what we currently have for our range of variables, but it's by no means perfect and doesn't explain values like those of 100%acc.
This old image shows the deviation of, on the left, acc(1+vet)(1+ecm), and acc(1+vet+ecm) from real data.

Here's how the data was gathered. ECM and accuracy were adjusted between runs.
I was actually surprised at how little time it took once I had a good method.

User avatar
Mister Maf
Lieutenant
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sun 15 Dec 2013 23:15
Contact:

Re: quick PSA about aircraft veterancy and ECM

Postby Mister Maf » Thu 3 Sep 2015 01:02

nande wrote:
brroleg wrote:So, how good is elite mig25 with its 40% missiles against 50% ecm?
33% chance of hitting. 1% higher than that of a 60% accuracy rookie like the MiG-29M.
You can find it all on the third graph (if you search hard enough!)

Very interesting indeed. So the bundle of elite Tornado F.2s really is that much better than the trained F.3s. Would it be convenient for you to label what the different colors on the third graph are?
Image

nande
Lieutenant
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue 30 Sep 2014 02:31
Contact:

Re: quick PSA about aircraft veterancy and ECM

Postby nande » Thu 3 Sep 2015 01:35

To make it easier you could search for the horizontal line with "+"'s that crosses ECM=0 at your desired acc. Where it starts and ends it'll connect to CTH for rookie and elite. So just walk along the Z-shape.
Mister Maf wrote:Would it be convenient for you to label what the different colors on the third graph are?
no, it wouldn't be. There's not nearly enough space.
Spoiler : I don't think this is any less confusing. :
https://jii.moe/EkJu8dgT.png
and honestly I'd rather this thread was about the actual trend instead of single values. The larger graph shows things in better perspective
Last edited by nande on Fri 4 Sep 2015 01:56, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Mister Maf
Lieutenant
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sun 15 Dec 2013 23:15
Contact:

Re: quick PSA about aircraft veterancy and ECM

Postby Mister Maf » Thu 3 Sep 2015 02:19

That is significantly easier to understand even if it has less detail.
Image

APSinc
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed 3 Sep 2014 09:56
Contact:

Re: quick PSA about aircraft veterancy and ECM

Postby APSinc » Thu 3 Sep 2015 09:15

This is...interesting.

You would think that accuracy modifier's would be multiplicative, given the general formula. I suppose this simply means that AC have better accuracy overall (additive multipliers instead of multiplicative multipliers), but otherwise the game is not changed much.

You would think that in a game based so heavily on stats that Eugen would have made the armory be as transparent as possible when understanding game mechanics. Instead we have...RoF and this.

As if the game wasn't hard enough to get into as it is. Thanks for sharing.

User avatar
[DAY]Topspin2005
General
Posts: 5118
Joined: Thu 30 Jun 2011 15:13
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: quick PSA about aircraft veterancy and ECM

Postby [DAY]Topspin2005 » Thu 3 Sep 2015 10:19

Ok another question about this stats:
A pilot of a Mig25 was successful yesterday and so happy that he went in a pub. There he meet 8 nice girls and drunk with everyone of them a 0,5 litre beer bottle an a 0,02 shooter vodka. What he did later with everyone of the girls has no influence to the stats.
He had only 240 minutes sleep that night.

Next day he is doing his job in Wargame:RD again ... how much % is the chance he is hitting something? He is a rookie pilot but of course an elite dancer! :mrgreen:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Sir Typhoon and 15 guests