Xeno's air tabs changes

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Xeno426
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Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 16 Nov 2016 17:43

To anyone wondering "what would Xeno do to the air tab if he was given complete control", wonder no longer. Due to character limits, I've had to split up my posts. Part Two can be found here.

If you want to know what mistakes were made with all the aircraft cannon and guns in the game, look no further than here.
Here's a handy list of cluster bombs.

USA
Spoiler : USA :
A-10A
ECM: 20% -> 30%
Loiter: 135 -> 150s
Explanation: The A-10 always flew with a jammer pod on one of the outboard pylons.

A-10A LASTE
Copy made from A-10A
Year: 1990
Loadout: 6xAGM-65D2
Loiter: 150s
Explanation: The A-10 is rather iconic for the US, but unfortunately it doesn't get used much because it's only stuck with the old AGM-65B. By adding an A-10 from the LASTE upgrade (which improved avionics, particularly the autopilot systems that linked to the gunsight, vastly improving gun accuracy) the A-10 can get newer weapons and a more accurate gun.

EF-111A
Model: EF-111 -> F-16
Name: EF-111A -> F-16CJ
Loadout: 2xAGM-88 -> 2xAGM-88, 4xAIM-120A
ECM: 60% -> 50%
Stealth: Good -> Medium
Fuel: 6500L -> 5000L
Loiter: 195s -> 150s
Turn: 400 -> 350
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: The EF-111 had no armament in real life. This removes the unrealistic EF-111A and replaces it with a realistic SEAD option. Yes, this is a copy of the ROK F-16C Block 52d, but I originally proposed that loadout for the US in the first place. :p

F-4G
Loadout: 4xAGM-45B, 4xAIM-9L -> 2xAGM-65B, 2xAGM-45B
Explanation: This provides a unique mix of AGM and SEAD capability, which is also a loadout it's used in real life (or similar). It also helps reinforce the theme of US air power. When carrying SEAD missiles on the wings, the F-4 was unable to use the AIM-9, so if they did carry any self-defense AAMs it would have been Sparrows. However, it was just as often they carried no self-defense AAMs because they'd always be escorted, so I've left them off as a cost-saving measure.

F-16A
Loadout: 4xMk.20 Rockeye II, 4xAIM-9J -> 4xBLU-27. 2xAIM-9L
ECM: 20% -> 30%
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: The pitiful Rockeye loadout has always been useless; this change provides a napalm option to non-Marine decks. Reducing the number of AIM-9s helps reduce price.

F-16C
Name: F-16C Block 30
Loadout: 6xMk.20 Rockeye II, 4xAIM-9M -> 4xMk-84, 2xAIM-9L
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: This facilitates a later F-15E change. By putting the heavy bomb load on the F-16 (which did happen), the aircraft can be made both cheaper and potentially more of them per card. The reduced AIM-9s also helps keep price down.

F-16C Block 52
Model: F-16Cbork (F-16 with squashed CFTs) -> F-16
Loadout: 564xM61A1, 2xAIM-9M, 4xAIM-120A -> 511xM61A1, 4xAIM-9M, 2xAIM-120A
Explanation: The CFTs were a feature of the very OOTF block 52+ and block 60 aircraft, plus they were far more prominent on the real thing. The weapon change is to allow a more SRAAM-focused fighter and potentially reduce price. This allows it to mesh better (and have more design space) compared to the top-end F-15Cs.

F-117
Model: F-117 -> F-111
Name: F-111F Pacer Strike
Year: 1983 -> 1985 or 1990
Loadout: 2xGBU-27/B -> 2xGBU-24/B or 2xGBU-15(V)22/B
ECM: 0% -> 30%
Fuel: 4500L -> 6500L
Loiter: 135s -> 195s
Turn: 350 -> 400
Speed: 750 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Stealth: Excellent -> Poor
Prototype: Yes -> No
Explanation: Yes, the F-117 is iconic, but it was more a strategic weapon, and certainly wouldn't be seen on the front lines; it's too vulnerable (no RWR, jammer, etc). This would provide the same overall loadout (the GBU-27 is basically a GBU-24 with folding fins so it would fit in the bomb bay) or even better. The name reflects one of the major upgrades that happened during the 80's, which just sounds cool.

F-15A
Loadout: 4xAIM-7M, 4xAIM-9L -> 4xAIM-7F, 4xAIM-9L
Turn: 350 -> 325
Explanation: The AIM-7M is from the early 80's, so the 1977 F-15A could not be using it.

F-15C
ECM: 50% -> 40%
Turn: 350 -> 325
Explanation: Even the original F-15s armed with AIM-120s didn't have much upgraded ECM systems, certainly not over the F-15E.

F-15D
Name: F-15E
Loadout: 4xMk-84, 4xAIM-9M -> 12xCBU-87, 4xAIM-120A
ECM: 40% -> 50%
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Turn: 350 -> 375
Explanation: The heavy iron load is handed off to the F-16, allowing more such aircraft per card. This change makes the F-15E (which will get the new model) a death dealer; the CBU-87s will demolish a large area of armor with its clusters, while the AIM-120As allow it to be used as a kind of interceptor, so long as its kept out of a dogfight. It's a dangerous aircraft for either ground targets or air targets, and would justify being one card of one.

A-4F
Model: A-4F/M -> F-15
Name: F-15C Suite 3
Year: 1956 -> 1994
Loadout: 4xMk-82 -> 4xAIM-120B, 4xAIM-120B
ECM: 0% -> 50%
Fuel: 4000L -> 6500L
Loiter: 120s -> 195s
Speed: 600 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Turn: 300 -> 325
Explanation: Replace the pitifully-loaded A-4F with a proper top-end fighter for the US. The double AIM-120B armament makes it quite deadly in the merge but can't dogfight. This adds a good "feel" to how the USAF fights.

AV-8A
Model: Harrier Mk.Ibork (odd mix of two Harrier generations) -> F-16
Name: F-16C Block 40
Year: 1974 -> 1989
Loadout: 2xMk-83, 2xAIM-9J -> 2xAGM-65G, 2xAIM-120
ECM: 0% -> 40%
Fuel: 2500 -> 5000L
Loiter: 75s -> 150s
Speed: 600 km/h -> 900 km/h
Turn: 300 -> 350
Explanation: Another old aircraft that would not be in service by 1980, replaced to give the US a modern AGM option. The A-10A LASTE focuses on pure tank-busting; this aircraft makes itself a threat to ground and air targets. This solves part of the US's problem where most of its good AGM options are stuck on Marine or Navy aircraft. There's also the issue that about half of the US air deck is Navy/Marine, which would be fine if the Marine deck was more common/viable. Moving a few aircraft over to the USAF helps out more common US specialized decks a bit while removing some of the most superfluous Marine units.

A-6A
Name: A-6E
ECM: 30%
Turn: 350 -> 400
Explanation: The A-6A had been replaced in service by the likes of the A-6E (entered service in 1966) pretty much fully by the mid-70's. The name change to A-6E justifies the improved ECM. The turn rate is also bit generous, especially considering the payload.

A-7E
Loadout: 2xMk.77 -> 6xMk-83
Explanation: The US originally had two napalm aircraft, both of which were Marine spec. This gives the A-7E a loadout befitting of its actual capabilities, providing a good "oomph" bomber for the Marine deck.

EA-6B
Turn: 350 -> 400
Explanation: The turn rate was overly generous.

F-4J
Name: F-4N
Loadout: 4xAIM-7E, 4xAIM-9F -> 4xAIM-7F, 4xAIM-9H
Explanation: This does a a few things; by replacing the old F-4J with the late 70's upgrade of the Navy F-4Bs, it allows the CatC F-4 to get better missiles. It also removes the AIM-9F from the US arsenal, which it never used because it was a German upgrade of the AIM-9B, and the US already had its own AIM-9 upgrades.

F-4S
Turn: 400 -> 450
Speed: 900 km/h -> 800 km/h
Explanation: In general, I'm reducing speed of multi-role aircraft that are carrying an air-to-ground load or at least a heavy load.

F-14
Name: F-14A
Year: 1974 -> 1984
Loadout: 4xAIM-54, 2xAIM-9L -> 4xAIM-7M, 4xAIM-9M
Explanation: This provides the Marine deck with a good CatB fighter and removes the LRAAMs. The name change just makes it a bit more accurate.

F/A-18A
Loadout: 2xAGM-65E, 4xAIM-9L -> 8xMk.20 Rockeye II, 2xAIM-9M
Fuel: 5000L -> 4500L
Loiter: 150s -> 135s
Turn: 400 -> 375
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: The AV-8B already carries the same number of Mavricks and can do the job better because its speed means it can fire both off in one pass and also double as an anti-helicopter option. Since the US Marine deck currently lacks any cluster bombers, this fixes that hole. I'd pick a different cluster bomb, but the Marines mainly used the Rockeye; if anything, the F-111D could get a different cluster bomb, maybe the CBU-59/B or CBU-70/B.

F/A-18C
Fuel: 5000L -> 4500L
Loiter: 150s -> 135s
Turn: 400 -> 375
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Helping pull the F/A-18 out of the turn-rate gutter.

F/A-18E
Move: Naval tab -> Air tab
Loadout: 2xAGM-84, 6xAIM-120A -> 4xAIM-120A, 4xAIM-9R
Turn: 400 -> 350
Explanation: A proper modern Marine fighter. Because the Navy got the AMRAAM so much later than the USAF, I decided to keep theirs at the AIM-120A for flavor. However, they get the Navy's AIM-9R, which was cancelled with the reunification of Germany and information on the R-73, neither of which happens in our game's timeline. The US naval tab is already serviced by the A-6E TRAM for anti-ship duty anyway.

Pure fantasy:
F-22A
Year: 1996
Loadout: 6xAIM-120C, 2xAIM-9M (or 4xAIM-120B, 2xAIM-9M)
Stealth: Very Good
ECM: 50%
Fuel: 6500L
Loiter: 195s
Turn: 280
Speed: 1000 km/h
Explanation: Everyone else gets their fighters that didn't see IOC until 2004 or later. At the very least, it should be possible for a modder to change the F-15 into an F-22 stat-clone to test out this idea and see how it can be balanced. With this aircraft, I'd actually drop the F-15C Suit 3 change.

F-15C
Loadout: 940xM61A1, 4xAIM-120A, 4xAIM-9M -> 940xM61A1, 4xAIM-120A, 4xAIM-120A
ECM: 50% -> 40%
Turn: 350 -> 325
Explanation: With the F-22A around, this aircraft can take over the role of flinging slammers everywhere.

A-4F
Year: 1956 -> 1970
Loadout: 4xMk-82 -> 2xAGM-62 Walleye I
ECM: 0% -> 30%
Turn: 300 -> 350
Explanation: Provides some PGM capability to early Marine decks and fixes the anemic load. The Walleye I was the 500lb bomb version; the Walleye II was 2000lb. ECM change because it had RWR, chaff/flare dispensers, and the AN/ALQ-100 jammer.

Overall goal:
The US should have an oppressive air arm; it wasn't just lots of money that was thrown at the USAF and the nautical aviation, it was also the hours given to training and the importance aircraft had in strategic and tactical planning. If there's any flavor for the US, it's that its air forces should be among the best and have a tool for nearly any situation.


Commonwealth
Spoiler : CMW :
A-4K
Model: I have no idea what the modeler was smoking or what he was looking at when he made this design; it's like no two-seat A-4 that exists. Just give it the A-4K Kahu model.
ECM: 0% -> 20%
Explanation: The A-4K had RWR and chaff/flare dispensers.

BAC Strikemaster
Loadout: 2xMk.77 -> 38xSNEB rockets
Explanation: The MB-339CB already does the napalm thing better, but ANZAC lacks a rocket aircraft; this fixes the problem and gives the Strikemaster a use.

MB-339CB
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Explanation: The MB-339CB featured at least RWR, so it should have at least have 10% ECM. I don't know if it had chaff/flare dispensers.

F-4E
Move: ANZAC -> UK
Name: Phantom FGR.2
Year: 1968 -> 1979
Loadout: 1200xM61A1, 4xSkyflash, 4xAIM-9G
Speed: 900 km/h -> 800 km/h
ECM: 10% -> 20%
Explanation: Since the RAAF got rid of its F-4Es in 1973, there should be none left. However, a realistic operator of some kind of F-4 would be the UK, which operated them into the 1980's. This provides a realistic CatC fighter for the UK with an actual BVRAAM. The Spey engines forced a reduction in top speed but were more efficient, so the British F-4 has slower speed but longer loiter time.

CF-18 ASuW
Move: Naval tab -> Air tab; Canada -> ANZAC
Name: F/A-18A CAP
Loadout: 2xAGM-84, 2xAIM-9M -> 2xAIM-7M, 4xAIM-9L
Turn: 400 -> 350
Explanation: Everyone on the same side (REDFOR, BLUFOR) uses the same pool of anti-ship aircraft, so there's no need for this version to stick around. Since ANZAC lacks a proper fighter, this move provides that capability to them. The armament choice (less than other F/A-18 versions) is accounted for by the use of drop tanks, hence the longer loiter time and more fuel; this helps make the aircraft more unique from other Hornet versions.

CF-104 (CAN)
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Speed: 750 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Explanation: Why is this aircraft still so slow? It's an engine with little stubby wings (oh, and a pilot).

CF-18
Turn: 400 -> 375
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Heavy ground load means it can't fly as fast or turn as well as a cleaner loadout.

CF-188
Loadout: 564xM61A1, 6xAIM-9M, 2xAIM-7M -> 578xM61A1, 6xAIM-9L, 2xAIM-7F
Turn: 400 -> 350
Explanation: Quit Hornet abuse. Also, changed the weapons to match the date of the aircraft.

F/A-18A
Loadout: 4xMk-83, 4xAIM-9L -> 6xMk-83, 2xAIM-9L
Fuel: 5000L -> 4500L
Loiter: 150s -> 135s
Turn: 400 -> 375
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: One pair of AIM-9s are replaced with another pair of bombs. This really helps provide a more powerful kick to the ANZAC air tab.

F-111G
Move: Naval tab -> Air tab
Name: F-111C-EW
Loadout: 4xAGM-84 -> 4xAGM-88
ECM: 20% -> 30%
Stealth: Poor -> Medium
Explanation: ANZAC lacks SEAD, but it did test AGM-88 on its F-111C aircraft for purchase (it ended up getting cancelled, though I don't know the circumstances). Again, the issue with naval aircraft is that they are shared across the board, so one or two are all that's really needed. This change allows ANZAC to have a bit better control from the air in a realistic manner.

Mirage IIIO(F)
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Explanation: Both Mirage IIIO would be covered by this, as both had RWR.

Mirage IIIO(A)
Loadout: 6xMk-82 -> 8xMk-82
ECM: 0% -> 20%
Explanation: RWR was standard, as was a centerline jammer pod. The eight bombs could be carried on the wing pylons.

Eurofighter Typhoon
Loadout: 4xAIM-9M, 4xAIM-120A -> 6xAIM-120A + 4xASRAAM
Explanation: The Typhoon is missing a pair of missiles, thanks to the ability to carry four AAMs on the fuselage (rather like the F-15). The ASRAAM is included because it reached initial service by 1998 (though it wasn't used for a few more years until some kinks had been worked out) and this is after the FGR stopped assisting with the development after the capabilities of the R-73 was discovered. Without the reunification of Germany, there'd be no reason for the FRG to pull out of ASRAAM development.

Harrier GR.1
Loadout: MC/GP Mk.10 -> 36xSNEB
Fuel: 3000L -> 2500L
Loiter: 90s -> 75s
Turn: 300 -> 350
Explanation: I am of the opinion that rockets are better suited to the slower and lower ECM Harrier; it allows it to be cheaper and the turn-away distance on rockets is usually a bit better than for bombs, so the aircraft doesn't spend as much time in the enemy's AD (important for low ECM aircraft).

Harrier GR.3
Loadout: 36xSNEB -> 2xGP Mk.10/117
Fuel: 2500L -> 3000L
Loiter: 75s -> 90s
Explanation: The higher speed and better ECM of this version makes it better suited to bombing duty.

Harrier GR.5
Model: Harrier Mk.IIbork -> Harrier Mk.Ibork
Name: Sea Harrier FRS.2
Loadout: MC / GP Mk.10, 2xAIM-9L -> 2xAIM-120, 4xAIM-9L, no cannon
Fuel: 5000L -> 4000L
Loiter: 150s -> 120s
Explanation: The Mk.5 Harrier lasted only a few years, and never got approved for anything besides dumb bombs; it wasn't even around long enough to get proper rocket approval. The role of dumb bombing can already be done better by other UK options, so turning it into an AD Sea Harrier would be great for the CMW Marine deck (and UK deck in particular). The lack of a gun is because the AIM-120s are loaded there, while the AIM-9s would be on twin-launch rails. This allows for drop tanks to be carried, allowing it to keep its current fuel/loiter values.

Harrier GR.7
Loadout: 4xGBU-12, 2xAIM-9L -> 2xCPU-123/B, 2xAIM-9L
Explanation: The UK didn't operate the GBU-12, they had the EGBU-12, but that's quite OOTF. They did have the 1000lb CPU-123/B, which was a Paveway II kit on their Mk.13 GP bomb.

Sea Harrier FA.2
Fuel: 5000L -> 3000L
Loiter: 150s -> 90s
Explanation: This loadout doesn't allow for the aircraft to carry drop tanks, so it can't have the better range given here.

Jaguar GR.1
Loadout: 2xBL-755 -> 1xAJ.168, 2xAIM-9G
Turn: 500 -> 425
Explanation: The Martel could only be carried on the centerline of the Jaguar family. The older nature of the AJ.168 means it could be placed on an older version of the Jaguar, opening up the GR.1A to carry something else.

Jaguar GR.1A
Year: 1990
Loadout: 2xAJ.168 -> 4xIBL-755, 2xAIML-9L (overwing pylons)
Turn: 500 -> 425
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Provides the big cluster option, which frees up the Tornado for other duties. Moving the year to 1990 allows it to benefit from the "international" upgrade that added the overwing pylons.

Tornado F.3
Year: 1988 -> 1994
Name: Tornado GR.4
Loadout: 180xBK-27 (single), 4xAIM-9L, 4xSkyflash SuperTEMP -> 360xBK-27 (dual), 4xALARM, 2xAIM-9L
Explanation: The model of the Tornado F.3 is wrong; it's a Tornado IDS. Changing this to the GR.4 with ALARMs, it gives better design space for the FGR.2 Phantom and provides a historically accurate ALARM carrier (all ALARMs fired in the Gulf War were from Tornados).

Tornado F.2
Name: Tornado F.3
Year: 1985 -> 1989
Loadout: 2xAIM-9L, 4xSkyflash -> 4xSkyflash SuperTEMP, 3xAIM-9L
ECM: 30%
Explanation: The above change frees up this ADV Tornado to take over the role. The reduced AIM-9 load is because one AIM-9 is replaced with a countermeasure pods.

Tornado GR.1
Loadout: 4xIBL-755, 4xAIM-9L -> 8xGP Mk.13/114, 2xAIM-9L]
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: No Tornado IDS could carry more than two AIM-9s, so let's fix that. By changing this to a heavy bomb load, which is realistic, the Tornado takes its place as a proper heavy bomber, though top speed suffers.

Pure fantasy (requires new models):
CF-100 Mk 5M
Replace: CF-101B
Loadout: 29xFFAR, 4xAIM-7C
Explanation: This allows for a different fighter that isn't the CF-101B, particularly since that aircraft was held primarily for Canadian air defense.

Buccaneer S.2B
Year: 1974
Loadout: 2xAJ.168
ECM: 30%
Explanation: The Buccaneer can take over the AGM duty from the Jaguar. The smaller missile load (only two) is because the AJ.168 required a special pod for command link, and one more pylon would be required for a jammer pod.

Jaguar GR.1
Loadout: 2xBL-755 -> 4xBL-755
Turn: 500 -> 425
Explanation: Using tandem racks on the inboard pylons, the Jaguar was capable of carrying up to six BL-755s. However, this would preclude the use of countermeasure pods on the outboard pylons, so I reduced it to four. If people are fine with a 10% ECM, then six could be carried.

New model: GR.1 Harrier (4 skins for AV-8C, Sea Harrier, GR.1, GR.3)

Modified model for FRS.2: no gun pods (AIM-120s there instead).

If high-speed, low-level flight actually provided benefits vs medium-range SAM systems,
Buccaneer S.2A; 4xMk.13/117, 8xMk.2/118, 20% ECM


EuroCorps
Spoiler : EuroCorps :
F-104G
Move: Naval tab -> Air tab
Skin: Proper non-Marine skin.
Loadout: 4x or 5x napalmcontainer
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: There's already the marine Tornado for anti-ship duty, so there's no reason to keep the F-104G over there. This armament frees up the Alpha Jet for other duties.

Alpha Jet A
Name: Alpha Jet KWS
Year: 1979 -> 1988
Loadout: 2xMk.77 -> 36xSNEB, 2xAIM-9L
ECM: 0% -> 30%
Explanation: Keeping in mind the Eurocorp were built as a coalition (hence FRG not getting the Typhoon, despite the fact they had theirs operational before the UK), my planned change for the Etendard IVM frees this unit up to move forward in time where the KWS upgrade gave it better countermeasure systems and AAM capability.

Tornado IDS
Loadout: Tighter bomb patter, 2xAIM-9L
Explanation: As stated before, the IDS could not carry more than two AIM-9s. The German Tornados could not carry more than four Mk-83s on the fuselage, though the inboard pylons could replace their ubiquitous drop tanks with another pair of Mk-83s, for a total of six, though this would require fuel and loiter time to drop. A tighter drop pattern, however, would make this aircraft far more effective.

F-4F Peace Rhine
Name: F-4F KWS LA
Year: 1980 -> 1992
Loadout: 2xAGM-65D, 4xAIM-9L -> 2xAGM-65G (4xAIM-9L optional)
ECM: 20% -> 30%
Explanation: Provides a better AGM option for the coalition. The AIM-9s were possible, but could unnecessarily inflate the price.

F-4F
Turn: 400 -> 375
Explanation: The reduced fuel load caused by the removal of the #7 fuel tank on all F-4F versions is reflected in its better turning capability.

F-4F KWS
Name: F-4F KWS LV
Turn: 400 -> 375
Explanation: This just helps differenciate it from the other KWS version.

Torando ECR
Loadout: 4xAGM-88, 4xAIM-9L -> 4xAGM-88, 2xAIM-9L
Explanation: Similar to all other Tornados (except the F.3 ADV), only two AIM-9s were possible.

Rafale C F1
Name Rafale M
Move: Add to Marine
Explanation: This provides the aircraft to the Marine deck.

Etendard IVM
Loadout: 2xSAMP T200 -> 38xSNEB rockets
Turn: 300 -> 350
Explanation: This aircraft is slow and has low ECM, so bombing is often suicidal. At least with rockets, it can fling them a bit further and quickly leave. Bombing is also already performed fine by other French (and German) aircraft, and France somehow doesn't have anything carrying the Matra SNEB rockets, designed and built in France.

Mirage IIIC
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Explanation: Mirage III had an RWR, so at least 10% ECM is warranted.

Jaguar A
Loadout: 2xAS-37 -> 1xAS-37, 2xR.550 Magic I
ECM: 30% -> 40%
Turn: 500 -> 425
Explanation: The Martel missile was simply too big to be placed anywhere except the centerline. However, this does free up the interwing pylons for countermeasure pods, so the ECM could be bumped up to 40%.

Mirage F1C-200
Model: Mirage F1C - Jaguar A
Name: Jaguar A ATLIS
Year: 1983 -> 1980
Loadout: 2xR.550 Magic II, 2xSuper 530F -> 2xBGL-400
Fuel: 4000L -> 3000L
Loiter: 120s -> 90s
Turn: 400 -> 425
Explanation: The F1C-200 is quite pointless. The Magic II is from 1986, but moving the aircraft up to there makes doesn't help the deck much. At its current location, it's completely redundant with the regular F1C. This change brings LGBs to the Eurocorp on the platform that usually carried them (bombs on the inboard pylons, ATLIS on the centerline). The outboard pylons are left open for countermeasure pods.

(model) Mirage F1C (all versions): wingtip rails for Magic

Pure fantasy (requires new models)
Jaguar E
Year: 1981
Loadout: 6xSAMP T200
ECM: 30%
Fuel: 2500L
Loiter: 75s
Turn: 425
Explanation: The two-seat trainer was still combat capable, though it couldn't use the more advanced systems like ATLIS. It also didn't have as much fuel as the single-seater. However, it could still carry a notable weapon load, and when given jammer and countermesure pods, makes a good improvement over the Mirage V.

Mirage 2000D
Year: 1993
Loadout: 4xBGL-400, 2xR.550 Magic II
Explanation: With this bad boy carrying LGBs for France, there is no need for a Jaguar A ATLIS, so the F1C can be repurposed for something else.

F-4F Peace Rhine
No change, unnecessary with below change.

Mirage F1C-200
Model: Mirage F1C -> F-4
Move: France -> FRG
Name: F-4F KWS LA
Year: 1983 -> 1992
Loadout: 2xR.550 Magic II, 2xSuper 530F -> 2xAGM-65G (AIM-9L optional)
Fuel: 4000L -> 5500L
Loiter: 120s -> 165s
Explanation: Serves the same purpose as the previous KWS LA, but without removing the old Peace Rhine.

Tornado IDS
Loadout: 4xMk-83, 4xAIM-9L -> 1xMW-1 w/KB44, 2xAIM-9L
Explanation: Sure, it has to fly over the target, making it a prime target for AA, but it would be DEATH TO EVERYTHING THERE. Also look cool while doing it.


Scandinavia
Spoiler : Scandinavia :
F 35 Draken
Fuel: 5500L -> 3500L
Loiter: 165s -> 105s
Explanation: The Danish Drakens had more internal fuel than their Swedish counterparts, but not that much.

F 35 Draken WDNS
Fuel: 2500L -> 3500L
Loiter: 75s -> 105s
Explanation: Just keeping this one in line with the previous.

F-16A Block 5
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Keeping in stance with multi-roles that have ground payloads having lower speed and worse turning.

F-16A Block 15
Loadout: 2xAIM-7M, 2xAIM-9L -> 2xAIM-9L, 4xAIM-9L
Explanation: Denmark did not operate the AIM-7, nor did they put it on their F-16s.

F-16A MLU
Turn: 350 -> 300
Explanation: No reason this should have a different turn rate.

Starfighter
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h

CF-104 (DEN)
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Turn: 450 -> 425
Speed: 750 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Explanation: The pure fighter load of this aircraft would allow it better turning compared to those with a heavy ground loadout.

A 32A
ECM: 0% -> 20%
Explanation: The A 32A had an extrernal chaff pod that could be carried on one of the outboard pylons. It also featured an RWR.

AJ 37
Model: JA 37 -> AJS 37
Year: 1971 -> 1977
Loadout: 2xRb 75, 2xRb 28 -> 2xRb 75T
Explanation: Model change so that the camo pattern is correct. The Rb 28 produced flutter issues when loaded on the outboard pylons, and so were often not used. The switch to the Rb 25T allows the AP to be increased to 29 or 30; even though the range and accuracy can't be increased, this should help provide a better anti-tank option for stand-alone Sweden.

J 35D
Loadout: 20x m/57 -> 38x m/57
Explanation: The m/57 rockets only came in 19-round pods, and were always carried in pairs. Additionally, these rockets should still be able to attack ground targets, though at much reduced range.

J 35F
Loadout: 12x m/56, 20x m/57 -> 12x m/56, 38x m/57
Explanation: Same as above.

J 35J
Loadout: 2xRb28, 4xRb 24J -> 2xRb27, 4xRb 24J
Explanation: The Rb 27 is a Swedish copy of the AIM-26B (too bad it's not the AIM-26A :D), giving this aircraft a longer range profile.

SK 60B
Year: 1967 -> 1972
Prototype: No -> Yes
Explanation: The year change brings it up to Rb 05 service date, and prototype because the capability was never put into fleetwide service.

F-104G (NOR)
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h

CF-104 (NOR)
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Fuel: 2500L -> 3000L
Loiter: 75s -> 90s
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: There's no reason this should have less fuel/loiter than the other F-104G. The Canadian CF-104s were upgraded with RWR.

F-16A (NOR)
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h

F-5A PUFF
ECM: 30% -> 40%
Explanation: It had RWR, chaff/flare and jammers. The ECM should be 10% higher thanks to the standard +10% ECM given to SEAD aircraft.


Blue Dragons (WIP)
Spoiler : Best Asia :
F-104J Ryu
ECM: 20% -> 10%
Speed: 750 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Turn: 450 -> 400
Explanation: Standardizing stats.

F-15J
Year: 1981 -> 1991
Loadout: 940xM61A1, 4xAIM-9M, 4xAIM-7M -> 940xM61A1, 4xAAM-3, 4xAIM-7M
Turn: 350 -> 325
Explanation: Moving this unit up in time frame gives Japan a CatA fighter with an updated SRAAM. Besides, the AIM-7M didn't get delivered until 1990 and they never had the AIM-9M.

F-4EJ
Year: 1972 -> 1983
Loadout: 940xM61A1, 4xAIM-7E, 4xAIM-9F -> 640xM61A1, 4xAIM-7F, 4xAIM-9L
ECM: 10% -> 20%
Explanation: The AIM-9F was never operated by Japan, but they did get AIM-9L in 1981 and AIM-7F in 1982. Moving this aircraft up allows this aircraft to provide CatB air defense.

F-4EJ Kai
Loadout: 940xM61A1, 4xAIM-7F, 8xM117 -> 640xM61A1, 3xAIM-7F, 8xM117
ECM: 20% -> 30%
Explanation: Reducing the number of AIM-7s allows for a jammer pod to be carried.

F-16C Peace Rhine
Loadout: 940xM61A1, 6xAIM-9M -> 511xM61A1, 2xAIM-9M, 4xAIM-9M
Explanation: Makes the aircraft more useful.

KF-16C
Loadout: 940xM61A1, 6xAIM-120A -> 511xM61A1, 2xAIM-120A, 4xAIM-120A
Explanation: This makes the aircraft a bit more useful to the coalition and not just suck.

F-4D Peace Pheasant I
Loadout: 25xMk-82 -> 18xMk-82
Explanation: Just a more realistic amount of bombs (MER on outboard pylons, TER on inboard).

KF-5E
Loadout: 280xTwin M39A2, 6xAIM-9J -> 280xTwin M39A2, 2xAIM-9J
Explanation: Only the Swiss had an F-5E that could carry more than two AIM-9s, and they still only had four total.

KF-16C Block 52D
Loadout: 940xM61A1, 2xAGM-88, 4xAIM-120A -> 511xM61A1, 2xAGM-88, 2xAIM-120A
Explanation: Allows the price to be reduced, important for the only SEAD aircraft available to the coalition.
Last edited by Xeno426 on Mon 17 Jul 2017 17:27, edited 35 times in total.
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Wirri
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Re: To anyone that asked themselves "What would Xeno change to the air tabs if he had full control"

Postby Wirri » Wed 16 Nov 2016 17:57

Psst. Eurocorps. European Coalition is apparently a political party in spain. Unless it was on purpouse and I' just didn't get it
Spoiler : :
Razzmann wrote:
Wirri wrote:Can I finally call myself a shitposter?

You have my blessing.

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Re: To anyone that asked themselves "What would Xeno change to the air tabs if he had full control"

Postby HrcAk47 » Wed 16 Nov 2016 18:04

I would prefer F-117 to stay, now that Yugo is coming :D


Suggestion about Su-24s:

Su-24MP (1983) as a dedicated SEAD plane, copy of your Su24, with 40 or 50 ECM. I mean, its the Soviet Raven.

Su-24 turned into a doombomber with 8-12x FAB-500

Su-24M as you intend it to be (very classy, I love it)

Otherwise, very nice! Looking foward to more.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

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Re: To anyone that asked themselves "What would Xeno change to the air tabs if he had full control"

Postby Farks » Wed 16 Nov 2016 18:04

While we're at it, gib AIM-9L dat 5 HE damage. And correct the name on the JA 37 Viggen autocannon, it currently says "ADEN 30" but should be "Oerlikon KCA".

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Re: To anyone that asked themselves "What would Xeno change to the air tabs if he had full control"

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 16 Nov 2016 18:08

Here's part two of the changes I'd make to the various air forces.

Soviet Union
Spoiler : USSR :
Il-102
Name: Il-102 -> Il-42
Loadout: 200xGSh-2-30, 14xFAB-500, 200xGSh-23L -> 500xGSh-2-30, 14xFAB-250, 60xGSh-23L
ECM: 10% -> 20%
Turn: 250 -> 400
Explanation: The Il-102 name was given to it in order to try and entice foreign customers in the 90's. During development, it was Il-42 and would have entered service with that designation had it been chosen over the Su-25. The wing bomb bays were limited to only FAB-250 bombs, plus 7000kg is damn near maximum TO weight. The rear GSh-23L should also be able to target ground units.

MiG-21bis
Model: MiG-21bis -> DPRK MiG-21bis
ECM: 0% -> 20%
Turn: 500 -> 450
Explanation: The MiG-21 had an RWR, and by the bis had strap-on countermeasure dispensers. Speed is not reduced because of a simple rocket air-to-ground loadout, but turn rate is.

MiG-21SMT
ECM: 0% -> 20%
Turn: 500 -> 450
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Continuing the standardization. The bombs reduces speed as well as turn rate. However, airframe weight limits prevent more munitions from being carried. This aircraft would be a good candidate for being turned into something else.

MiG-23ML
Loadout: 6xR-60-> 2xR-23R, 4xR-60
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Explanation: This provides the Soviet air force with a decent CatC fighter that is very historical as well.

MiG-23MLD
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h

MiG-25RBT
Model: MiG-25 -> Su-22bork (strange mix of Su-22M2 and Su-22M3)
Name: Su-17M3
Year: 1979 -> 1977
Loadout: 8xRBK-500 -> 160xNR-30, 8xRBK-500 PTAB-2.5, 2xR-60M (may be 6xRBK-500)
Fuel: 6500L -> 4500L
Loiter: 195s -> 135s
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: The Su-17 was rather ubiquitous in Soviet frontal aviation, and the Su-17 also makes a far better tactical bomber than the MiG-25RB. The PTAB-2.5 were rather heavy (2.5kg) anti-armor and material bomblets, making this a better anti-armor cluster bomber than the Mk.20 Rockeye II at the expense of cluster coverage.

MiG-25PD
Model: MiG-25 -> MiG-27
Name: MiG-27D
Year: 1979 -> 1982
Loadout: 2xR-40T, 2xR-40R -> 80xS-8
ECM: 20% -> 30%
Fuel: 6500L -> 4000L
Loiter: 195s -> 120s
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 850 km/h
Explanation: Removed PVO aircraft; they defend the Russian homeland only. This provides a useful rocket option, particularly since this rocket isn't on any aircraft currently. Rockets also mix well with the cannon.

MiG-27
Fuel: 4500L -> 4000L
Loiter: 135s -> 120s
Speed: 900 km/h -> 850 km/h
Explanation: The MiG-27 family had worse range than the likes of the Su-17 family, and were also slower.

MiG-27M
Loadout: 2xKh-25ML -> 6xODAB-500PM
Fuel: 4500L -> 4000L
Loiter: 135s -> 120s
Speed: 900 km/h -> 850 km/h
Explanation: Its role as a slinger of missiles is rather redundant thanks to the older MiG-27 and other newer platforms. This change provides some fun FAE bombing experience; just ask the Syrians! Also see my FAE notes at the bottom.

MiG-27K
Loadout: Kh-29D -> 2xKAB-500L
Fuel: 4500L -> 4000L
Loiter: 135s -> 120s
Speed: 900 km/h -> 850 km/h
Explanation: USSR can into LGBs. Besides, the Kh-29D isn't a real missile.

MiG-31
Model: MiG-31 -> Su-22bork
Name: Su-17M2
Year: 1981 -> 1974
Loadout: 4xR-33E -> 160xNR-30, 6xFZAB-500
ECM: 40% -> 10%
Fuel: 6500L -> 4500L
Loiter: 195s -> 135s
Turn: 500 -> 400
Speed: 1100 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Remove the fucking LRAAMs and send those PVO aircraft back to Soviet air space. It's time to drop some incendiary high explosivses! Basically, this is what the ODABs do now, but with my suggested FAE changes below they get proper design space.

MiG-31M
Model: MiG-31M -> Su-22bork
Name: Su-17M4
Year: 1984
Loadout: 6xR-37 -> 160xNR-30, 6xRBK-500 ZB-2.5, 2xR-60M
ECM: 40% -> 20%
Fuel: 6500L -> 4500L
Loiter: 195s -> 135s
Turn: 500 -> 400
Speed: 1100 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: See above. Remove kebab. Also, who doesn't want to drop cluster incendiary bomblets? AP and fire? Yes please.

MiG-29S
Year: 1982 -> 1989
Turn: 300 -> 350
Explanation: First MiG-29 9.13S flight was in 1988, not 1982.

MiG-29M
Year: 1991
Loadout: 4xRBK-500, 4xR-77 -> 4xRBK-500U SPBE, 4xR-77
Stealth: Medium -> Poor
Turn: 250 -> 350
Explanation: This makes the aircraft far more unique, though now I'm tempted to add the 1992 CBU-97/B somewhere...

Su-24
Loadout: 2xKh-28 -> 2xKh-58
ECM: 20% -> 30%
Explanation: The Su-24 still provides cheap SEAD for the USSR, but does so with a more reliable missile.

Su-24M
Loadout: 30xFAB-250 -> 2xFAB-1500M54
ECM: 20% -> 30%
Explanation: This removes the incredibly unrealistic bomb loadout with one that actually saw use. Depending on balance considerations and what the vet/availability and price would be, it could get a third FAB-1500 bomb on the centerline.

Su-25
Loadout: 4xKh-25ML, 4xS-24B -> 8xS-25OF
ECM: 10% -> 20%
Explanation: Since other Su-25s already make use of Kh-25MLs, this helps make the Soviet one unique. Hell, who doesn't want to fling a 190kg warhead rocket at the enemy?

Su-25T
Loadout: 250xGSh-2-30, 16x9K121 Vikhr, 2xR-73 -> 250xGSh-2-30, 8x9K121 Vikhr, 8x9K121 Vikhr
ECM: 20% -> 30%
Prototype: No -> Yes
Explanation: The inclusion of RWR, chaff/flare and jammers warrants a better ECM. Only a handful were made and it wasn't a full prodoction aircraft, so prototyping would be warranted. Finally, splitting the armament allows it to easily double-tap targets and make better use of its large missile load.

Su-27S
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h

Su-27PU
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h

Su-27M
Prototype: No -> Yes
Explanation: The Su-27M eventually became the Su-35, but not for almost two more decades and after designation changes. This aircraft during the timeframe would be a prototype.

Su-27K
Move: Naval tab -> air tab
Loadout: 1xP-270, 6xR-77 -> 4xR-27ER, 4xR-73
ECM: 50% -> 40%
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Explanation: The primary purpose of the Su-27K/Su-33 was fleet air defense, which it is now allowed to do. Also, no version of the Su-27K/Su-33 has ever been able to use the R-77, so we can square away that little bit of sillyness.

Yak-141
Loadout: 2xR-77, 2xR-73 -> 2xKh-25ML, 2xR-73
Explanation: This provides a decent AGM option for the Soviet marine deck. The Su-27K is already putting up air cover, so it frees up this unit to take on a ground attack role.

Yak-38
Loadout: 4xZB-500 -> 64xS-5M,
Speed: 600 km/h -> 750 km/h
Explanation: Only two pylons on the Yak-38 were rated for 500kg, so nix the original loadout. This gives a cheap rocket option to the Marine deck, which it would otherwise lack.

Yak-38M
Loadout: 4xFAB-500 -> 2xZB-500, 2xFAB-250
Speed: 600 km/h -> 750 km/h
Explanation: Same pylon limitations as above, so a mix of HE and fire bombs could be carried instead. Alternatively, if the Yak-141 was to remain as a fighter (with the original loadout), this loadout could go to the Yak-38 and the Yak-38M could be armed with 2xKh-23M.

Pure fantasy (requires new models)
Il-102
Model: Il-102 -> Su-27IB
Name: Su-27IB
Year: 1984 -> 1995
Loadout: 180xGSh-30L, 14xFAB-500, 200xGSh-23L -> 12xFAB-500, 2xR-73
Fuel: 3500L -> 6000L
Loiter: 105s -> 180s
Turn: 200 -> 350
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h

New model for Su-27K/M (and unique skins for each)

Overall Goal
The USSR air force should be strong, but not their main focus. It's rugged and dependable but doesn't has the same kind of shiny gadgets in the same numbers as found in Western air forces.


Non-Soviet Warsaw Pact (WIP)
Spoiler : NSWP :
MiG-17F
Move: DDR -> CSSR
Model: MiG-17 -> MiG-21bis
Name: MiG-21-93
Year: 1957 -> 1994
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 40xN-37, 4xFAB-250 -> 200xGSh-23L, 2xR-77, 2xR-73
ECM: 30%
Fuel: 2000L -> 2500L
Loiter: 60s -> 75s
Speed: 750 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Explanation: The MiG-17F had only two hardpoints capable of 100kg each and no countermeasures; it was crap nobody used. This change provides a modern fighter counterpart for the CSSR and its MiG-29 change.

MiG-17PF
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 40xN-37, 2xFAB-500 -> 300xNR-23, 4xFAB-250
Explanation: The MiG-17PF added a radar and deleted the N-37, adding another NR-23 instead and providing 100 rounds for each gun. Four hardpoints were supplied (instead of two) over the MiG-17F, for a total weapon load of only 500kg.

MiG-21M
Model: MiG-21bis -> L-15M
Turn: 500 -> 450
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Standardizing MiG-21s. Why do their turn rates differ from 350 up to 500 on some aircraft?

MiG-21ML
Model: MiG-21bis -> L-15M
Turn: 500 -> 450
Explanation: Basically the same thing as the USSR MiG-21bis.

MiG-21bis LAZUR
Model: MiG-21bis -> DPRK MiG-21bis
Loadout: 250xGSh-23L, 4xR-60, 2xR-13M -> 200xGSh-23L, 4xR-60, 2xR-13M
ECM: 10% -> 20%
Turn: 350 -> 400
Explanation: No MiG-21 had a GSh-23L with more than 200 rounds. Chaff/flare pods could be strapped on to later MiG-21 models, and the turn rates need standardizing.

MiG-23BN (DDR)
Loadout: 250xGSh-23L, 6xRBK-500 -> 200xGSh-23L, 6xRBK-500-255 PTAB-10-5
Speed: 900 km/h
Explanation: The PTAB-10-5 were rather large anti-armor bomblets (5kg), but only a few (30) were carried per container. Also, wrong number of cannon rounds. Speed shouldn't be faster than the MiG-23ML when this is carrying far more drag-inducing bombs.

MiG-23ML (DDR)
Loadout: 250xGSh-23L, 2xR-23R, 4xR-60 -> 200xGSh-23L, 2xR-23R, 4xR-60
ECM: 10% -> 20%
Speed: 900 -> 1000 km/h
Explanation: Number of cannon rounds was wrong. Speed should be up. MiG-23MLs could apply strap-on chaff/flare dispensers.

MiG-25RBF
Turn: 400 -> 500
Explanation: The MiG-25 family was not known for turning, especially when loaded with 4000kg of bombs.

MiG-29 9-13S (DDR)
Year: 1988 -> 1993
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Prototype: No -> Yes
Explanation: If the 9.13S were ever given to the DDR, it would have been after the 9.13 had started entering USSR VVS service, so after 1991 or so.

Su-22M4 (DDR)
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 2xKh-29L, 2xR-60M -> 160xNR-30, 2xKh-29L, 2xR-60M
ECM: 10% -> 20%
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Cannon was wrong. Also, ECM was lower than other Su-22M4s for no reason at all. Speed brought up to Su-17 standard.

Su-22M4P (DDR)
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 2xKh-58, 2xR-60M -> 160xNR-30, 2xKh-58, 2xR-60M
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Fixed the kind of cannon it was using.

MiG-21bis (POL)
Model: MiG-21bis -> DPRK MiG-21bis
Turn: 350 -> 400
Explanation: The DPRK has the most accurate late MiG-21 model, so let's use that.

MiG-21MF (POL)
Model: MiG-21bis -> L-15M
ECM: 20% -> 10%
Turn: 350 -> 450
Explanation: Only had RWR.

MiG-23MF (POL)
Model: MiG-27 -> MiG-23
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Explanation: When Poland's MIG-23BN was turned into the MiG-23, it was never given a proper model.

MiG-29 9-13S (POL)
Year: 1989 -> 1992
Loadout: 2xR-27R, 4xR-73 -> 2xR-27ER, 4xR-73
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Explanation: Poland never recieved the MiG-29 9.13S (or the 9.13, for that matter), but Poland's history suggested they rather liked the aircraft, as evidenced by their purchase of neighboring MiG-29 stocks post-USSR breakup. However, if it remains "9.13S", it could swap out its R-27R for a pair of R-27ERs.

Su-22M4 (POL)
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Continued standardization.

Su-22M4 Seria 30
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h

Su-22M4P (POL)
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h

Su-7B
Name: Su-7BM
Year: 1962 -> 1966
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 2xFAB-500 -> 140xNR-30, 2xFAB-500
Speed: 750 km/h -> 800 km/h
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Explanation: Poland never had the original Su-7B, and the Su-7 should have NR-30 with 70 rounds per gun. They also all had RWR. 1966 is when Poland received its first Su-7s.

Su-7BM
Move: Poland -> CSSR
Year: 1961 -> 1965
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 8xFAB-250 -> 140xNR-30, 14xS-3K
Speed: 750 km/h -> 800 km/h
Explanation: This provides the CSSR with an OK rocket punch and puts a Su-7 into CSSR hands, which they had.

Su-7BKL
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 8xZB-500 -> 140xNR-30, 4xZB-500
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Speed: 750 km/h -> 800 km/h
Explanation: Same cannon issue. The combat payload of the Su-7BK was 2000kg, so 8 ~500kg ZB-500 is so massively overweight this aircraft would likely never take off, let alone the insane g limit it would likely impose. A far more reasonable payload would be four bombs, and even that is pushing it.

Avia S-105
Loadout: ARS-57 -> +1400m ground attack range
Explanation: The ARS-57 is the original designation of the S-5 rocket. To that end, it should still be able to attack ground targets.

L-29R
Model: L-29 -> Su-22bork
Name: Su-22M4P
Year: 1963 -> 1984
Loadout: 2xFAB-250 -> 160xNR-30, 1xKh-58
ECM: 10% -> 40%
Fuel: 2000L -> 3500L
Loiter: 60s -> 105s
Turn: 300 -> 400
Speed: 600 km/h -> 800 km/h
Explanation: The only real options for SEAD for CSSR is Kh-58 and Kh-25MP. Those missiles are already in use by the other two NSWP nations, so how can it be made different? One option is two put the Kh-58 on it (which were stocked by the USSR in the CSSR for use during war and the CSSR pilots trained with), but only one missile; the other pylons opposite can be considered to be carrying the SPS-141 jammer pod. This allows its ECM to be boosted to 40%; 10% for RWR, 10% for chaff/flare, 10% for jammer, 10% for SEAD. Thus CSSR gets its SEAD in a manner that makes it unique to other nations.
Not necessary with Su-7B that can be changed.

L-29RS
Model: L-29 -> MiG-23M (CSSR)
Name: MiG-23MF
Year: 1963 -> 1977
Loadout: 2xZB-500 -> 4xODAB-500
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Fuel: 2000L -> 3500L
Loiter: 60s -> 105s
Turn: 300 -> 400
Speed: 600 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: Again with the L-29's extremely anemic payload. This provides a much better option, making use of the MiG-23MF in a ground-attack role.

L-39ZA
Loadout: 2xFAB-500, 2xR-60 -> 16xLR-122
Explanation: The LR-122 is a CSSR designed weapon made from modified Grad rocket that have been shortened by removing much of the rocket engine. This provides a good rocket option for the CSSR and the L-39ZA choice was made because it has a cannon.

MiG-29 9-12A
Loadout: 150xGSh-301, 4xODAB-500, 2xR-73 -> 150xGSh-301, 4xR-73, 4xR-60M.
ECM: 40% -> 20%
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Explanation:The 9-12 didn't have any jammers, so it can't justify 40% ECM. This provides the CSSR with a mixed close-in knife fighter, which could be competitive depending on price and availability/vet.

MiG-21bis (CSSR)
Name: MiG-21MF-75
Model: MiG-21bis -> L-15M
ECM: 20% -> 10%
Turn: 350 -> 400

MiG-23ML (CSSR)
ECM: 10% -> 20%
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h

Su-22M4 (CSSR)
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 2xFAB-1000 -> 160xNR-30, 8xFAB-500
Explanation: The FAB-1000 production ended after WWII, when the USSR standardized its bomb calibers to 50, 100, 250, 500, 1500, 3000, and 9000kg. Even the Il-28 of 1948 could not use the WWII-era FAB-1000. The next bomb size up, FAB-1500, could not be used by the Su-17 family, so the next best thing would be a bunch of FAB-500s.

Su-25K
Year: 1985 -> 1986
ECM: 10% -> 20%
Armor: 1 Rear -> 2 Rear
Explanation: In 1986, all Su-25s produced had extra armor plating added between the engines to help them survive missile hits.

Su-7B (CSSR)
Model: Su-7 -> Su-22bork
Name: Su-22M4P
Year: 1963 -> 1984
Loadout: 1xKh-28 -> 160xNR-30, 1xKh-58
ECM: 20% -> 40%
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: The only real options for SEAD for CSSR is Kh-58 and Kh-25MP. Those missiles are already in use by the other two NSWP nations, so how can it be made different? One option is two put the Kh-58 on it (which were stocked by the USSR in the CSSR for use during war and the CSSR pilots trained with), but only one missile; the other pylons opposite can be considered to be carrying the SPS-141 jammer pod. This allows its ECM to be boosted to 40%; 10% for RWR, 10% for chaff/flare, 10% for jammer, 10% for SEAD. Thus CSSR gets its SEAD in a manner that makes it unique to other nations.


North Korea (WIP)
Spoiler : DPRK :
A-5I
Name: A-5
Loadout: 205xNR-30, 4xBL-755, 2xPL-5 -> 200xTwin Type 23-II, 4xType 250-1 napalm, 2xType 250-1 cluster
Fuel: 2000L -> 3000L
Loiter: 60s -> 90s
Explanation: "A-5I" isn't the naming convention the Chinese aircraft used for export. Don't see why this has worse fuel and loiter than the other Q-5 versions. Cannon loadout is also fixed.

B-5
Loadout: 1x3000-2, 250xType 23-II -> 1xType 3000-2, 450xTwin Type 23-II
Explanation: Fixes the tail guns. The guns should also be able to target ground.

F-5
Year: 1988 -> 1963
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 40xN-37, 2xZB-500 -> 160xNR-23, 40xN-37, 4xFAB-250
Explanantion: No idea why Eugen thought this aircraft came into service in 1988, after the MiG-23ML. Given the added hardpoints on the fuselage the DPRK seem to have applied to their F-5s, it would make sense to use these on the platform. However, I double they managed to upgrade the rating of the individual pylons and hardpoints to handle more than 250kg per. Going for a simple iron bomb load.

F-5B
Name: F-5A
Year: 1968 -> 1980
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 40xN-37, 16xS-5M -> 300xTriple NR-23, 8xType 130-2
Explanation: The year change accomidates the weapon; the Type 130-2 is a napalm-tipped 130mm rocket.

F-6C
Name: F-6B
Year: 1957 -> 1975
Loadout: 205xNR-30, 16xT57-2 -> 14xType 90-1, 2xPL-2
Explanation: This change, if accompanied by a reduction in flight altitude, would ensure the aircraft at least has a role in light attack. The "F-6C" wasn't a thing, and the F-6B was just the MiG-19PM (i.e. didn't have any cannons).

F-7B
Model: MiG-21bis -> L-12
Turn: 500 -> 400
Explanation: Just standardizing turns.

MiG-21PFM
Model: MiG-21bis -> L-15M
Loadout: 400xGSh-23L, 2xKh-66 -> 200xGSh-23L, 2xKh-66
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Turn: 500 -> 450
Explanation: Fixed cannon load and changed speed/turn for payload.

MiG-21bis
Loadout: 500xGSh-23L, 2xKh-66, 2xPL-5 -> 200xGSh-23L, 2xFAB-500, 2xType 250-1 cluster
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 850 km/h
Turn: 350 -> 500
Explanation: Stanardized speed and turn for the payload, plus made the payload more unique and useful for the DPRK. The turn and speed are worse than normal because of the overload.

MiG-23ML
Loadout: 500xGSh-23L, 4xR-60M, 2xR-23R -> 200xGSh-23L, 4xR-60M, 2xR-24R
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Explanation: Cannon count is wrong and the DPRK had the R-24R, so it would make this aircraft a bit more useful to have that missile instead. However, it may be useful to leave it with the R-23R to provide a good reason to keep this cheaper and with better availability than the MiG-29 9.12B.

MiG-29 9-12B
Loadout: 150xGSh-301, 2xR-73, 4xR-27T -> 15xGSh-301, 4xR-60M, 2xR-27R
ECM: 30% -> 20%
Explanation: The 9-12 could not use the R-27T, and even the 9-13S could not carry more than two of them. The DPRK did not purchase the R-73, so this allows the aircraft to get a somewhat unique MiG-29 loadout. Futhermore, the 9-12B did not have a jammer.

Su-25K
Loadout: 250xGSh-2-30, 4xKh-23M -> 250xGSh-2-30, 4xKh-25ML
ECM: 10% -> 20%
Armor: 1 Rear -> 2 Rear
Explanation: The Kh-23 required a radio controller for the missile, either internal or as a pod. The Su-25 could not use the required Delta pod and did not have one internal because it already had the Klen-PS laser rangefinder/target painter for laser-guided missiles, so there was never a reason to allow it to use the less accurate and older radio-guided system of the Kh-23 and Kh-25MR. To this end, it should be using the Kh-25ML. The date also means it should have the better rear armor of later production. Finally, the aircraft had RWR and chaff/flare, so an improvement in ECM is necessary.

Su-7BMK
Loadout: 160xNR-23, 64xS-5M -> 140xNR-30, 64xS-5M
Speed: 750 km/h -> 800 km/h
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Turn: 300 -> 400
Explanation: Changing and standardizing speed, ECM and turn rates.


China (WIP)
Spoiler : PRC :
J-7C
Model: MiG-21bis -> DPRK MiG-21bis
Loadout: 400xGSh-23L, 2xFAB-500, 2xPL-5 -> 200xGSh-23L, 2xFAB-500, 2xFAB-250.
ECM: 0% -> 20%
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Turn: 500 -> 450
Explanation: Improving the ECM (RWR plus flare launchers) makes this a much better iron bomber choice. Speed and turn standardized.

J-7H
Name: J-7E
Model: MiG-21bis -> DPRK MiG-21bis
Year: 1985 -> 1990
Loadout: 400xGSh-23L, 1xFAB-1000, 2xPL-8 -> 60xNR-30, 2xPL-8, 2xPL-5
ECM: 0% -> 30%
Turn: 500 -> 375
Explanation: Turning this from an aircraft (which was older than the J-7C, incidentally) that was produced in fewer numbers than the J-7C into a more modern fighter gives it a niche, particularly with the J-8 changes. Earlier MRAAM options would be provided by the DPRK. Unlike other J-7s, this had only one Type 30-1 cannon (Chinese NR-30 copy).

J-7II
Model: MiG-21bis -> L-12
Year: 1970 -> 1978
ECM: 0% -> 10%
Fuel: 2000L -> 2500L
Loiter: 60s -> 75s
Turn: 500 -> 400
Explanation: It at least had a simple RWR.

J-7IIM
Model: MiG-21bis -> L-12
Year: 1980 -> 1983
Loadout: 400xGSh-23L, 4xPL-5 -> 120xTwin NR-30, 28xType 90-1
Fuel: 2000L -> 2500L
Loiter: 60s -> 75s
Turn: 500 -> 450
Explanation: Since there are already options of similar quality for AD, this change provides a fast rocket boat.

J-8IIB
Name: J-8II
Year: 1989 -> 1992
Loadout: 250xTwin Type 23, 6xPL-8 -> 200xGSh-23L, 3xODAB-500, 2xPL-8
ECM: 10% -> 30%
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Turn: 350 -> 400
Prototype: No -> Yes
Explanation: Provides some useful bombing for the Chinese with bombs delivered in 1992.

J-8C
Name: J-8IID
Loadout: 250xTwin Type 23, 4xPL-11, 2xPL-8 -> 200xGSh-23L, 2xYJ-5G, 2xPL-8
ECM: 30% -> 40%
Speed: 1000 km/h -> 900 km/h
Turn: 350 -> 400
Prototype: No -> Yes
Explanation: Provides a more realistic modern SEAD option for the nation of China. The YJ-5 was an experimental missile planned for use on the J-8 and Q-5, but was dropped when China was able to acquire the Kh-31 later on. The YJ-5G was a later version tested in the very late 80's.

JH-7
Model: JH-7 -> JH-7A
Year: 1988 -> 1994
Loadout: 400xGSh-6-23, 2xYJ-7, 2xPL-8 -> 300xGSh-23L, 24xType 250-3, 2xPL-8
Turn: 400 -> 450
Prototype: No -> Yes
Explanation: Although the JH-7A has an extra pair of pylons over the JH-7, the base JH-7 model is also missing a pair, which will be necessary for the loadout not to look silly. This provides a way for China to deal with tanks while lacking decent anti-tank missiles. The load could be reduced to a more reasonable 12 bombs if cluster changes makes these more viable.

JH-7A
Name: HD-5
Model: JH-7A -> B-5
Year: 1994 -> 1985
Loadout: 400xGSh-6-23, 4xYingji-91, 4xPL-8 -> 2xYJ-5
ECM: 40% -> 30%
Speed: 900 km/h -> 750 km/h
Turn: 400 -> 600
Prototype: No -> Yes
Explanation: Altitude should be increased. The HD-5 was a jammer version of the H-5 (should have a unique model, but the regular H-5 is fine to start) that lacked guns. It was used to test the original YJ-5 missile, probably placed in pairs between the engines and the fuselage. The aircraft itself differed from the regular H-5 by the addition of two bulges forward and aft of the bomb bay (turqoise in the picture) and the faired over rear gun turret (also turqoise in the pictures). The missile itself was based on the HQ-61 (thus would use the same model) and performance was considered to be like that of the AGM-45A Shrike.

Q-5I
Year: 1969 -> 1979
Loadout: 205xNR-30, 16xType 130-1 -> 200xTwin Type 23-II, 1xType 1000-3
Speed: 750 km/h -> 850 km/h
Fuel: 3000L -> 2500L
Loiter: 90s -> 75s
Explanation: Brings the date to the version that wasn't a nuke bomber. The bomb should be semi-recessed into the centerline bomb bay. Since the bomb bay is being used for a bomb, it would have less range.

Q-5IA
Year: 1979 -> 1982
Loadout: 205xNR-30, 4xType 250-1, 2xPL-2 -> 200xTwin Type 23-II, 16xType 130-1
Speed: 750 km/h -> 900 km/h
Explanation: This becomes the rocket platform instead.

Q-5D
Loadout: 205xNR-30, 2xLT-2, 2xPL-7 -> 200xTwin Type 23-II, 2xBomb 7712, 2xPL-7
Speed: 750 km/h -> 850 km/h
Explanation: Corrects the type of bomb being used. The LT-2 was very OOTF, but the 7712 was an early generation of the weapon (could be called LT-1) first tested in 1985.

Su-27SK
Name: Su-27SMK
Year: 1991 -> 1995
Loadout: 150xGSh-301, 4xR-73M1, 4xR-27R1 -> 150xGSh-301, 4xR-77, 4xR-73A
Speed: 900 km/h -> 1000 km/h
Prototype: No -> Yes
Explanation: Provides a high-end fighter for the coalition. R-77s were delivered to China in the early 90's (somewhere between 100-200 of them) mainly for testing (which led to domestic AR Chinese missiles). In the 1995-96 batch of Su-27Sk aircraft, China requested R-77 capability, leading to the Su-27SMK designation. In our alternate timeline, it could be argued enough R-77s were delivered to make them serviceable.


Finland
Spoiler : Kek :
Avia 28
Name: Il-28 Nikita
Explanation: Avia was a CSSR bureau that made aircraft; the Finnish Il-28s were purchased directly from the USSR, not from the CSSR.

J 35S
Loadout: 100xADEN 30, 4xRb 27, 2xAIM-9P-3 -> 200xTwin ADEN 30, 2xRb 27, 4xAIM-9E
Explanation: Finnish Saab 35XS still had both cannons and could only carry a maximum of two Rb 27s. Also, swapping AIM-9s with later MiG-21 to properly date the weapons.

J 35F
Loadout: 100xADEN 30, 6xPTA-Kanisteri 58 -> 100xADEN 30, 4xPTA-Kanisteri 58
Explanation: Lacking the inlet pylons, there were only four pylons capable of carrying such large payloads.

MiG-21F-13
Turn: 500 -> 450
Explanation: Keeping in with the other similar systems.

MiG-21bis
Name: MiG-21bisT
Loadout: 500xGSh-23L, 4xR-60, 2xAIM-9E -> 200xGSh-23L, 4xR-60, 2xAIM-9P-3
Turn: 350 -> 400
Explanation: Updated the AIM-9 thanks to match the date.

MiG-29 9.13
Name: MiG-29 9-13S
Loadout: 150xGSh-301, 2xR-77 -> 150xGSh-301, 2xR-77, 2xS-24B
Turn: 300 -> 350
Explanation: Gives this aircraft a bit more dual-use.

F-18C
Turn: 400 -> 350
Explanation: Stopping shitty Hornet turn rates.


Weapon Changes
Spoiler : Universal weapon changes :
AIM-7E -> 40% acc
AIM-7F -> 50% acc
AIM-7M -> 60% acc
AIM-9L, AIM-9G, AIM-9H: 4HE -> 5HE
K-13 family: 4HE -> 5HE
Rb 05A: 10HE -> 13HE

Skyflash SuperTEMP: 8400m -> 7700m
R-27R: 8400m -> 7700m
Kh-29T: 3500m -> 3150m
Kh-29L 3150m -> 3325m
PL-8: Should be a copy of Python 3. One or the other should change.
Rb 24J: Should be a copy of the AIM-9P-3. One or the other should change.

All missiles with "Vympel" or "Molniya" -> Remove "Vympel" or "Molniya" from the name.
Derby -> Alto
Alto: 70% ACC -> 65% ACC

HVAR napalm: 4HE -> 2HE

LGB and similar PGM accuracy based on generation
1st (Paveway I, GBU-8, AGM-62, Bomb 7712): 40%
2nd (Paveway II, CPU-123/B, GBU-15(V)1/B, GBU-15(V)2/B, KAB-500L): 50%
3rd (Paveway III, GBU-15(V)21/B, GBU-15(V)22/B): 60%

FAE weapons (like Buratino, ODAB) should be medium HE with large radius and large suppression weapons with perhaps an increased chance of starting fires, like the Casiopee cannon.


New Weapons
Spoiler : New Weapons :
Type 90-1: 3HE rocket
Type 130-2: 2HE napalm rocket

Type 250-1 cluster: Chinese cluster bomb filled with 28 5kg anti-tank/anti-material bomblets.
Type 250-2 cluster: Chinese copy of the Rockeye II.
Type 250-3 cluster: Chinese copy of the BL-755.

YJ-5: HQ-61 model. General stat copy of AGM-45A.
YJ-5G: Same as YJ-5, but stats closer to AGM-45B, though larger warhead.

BLU-27/B: 360kg napalm bomb.

Skyflash: As Skyflash SuperTEMP, but 7000m
R-27ER: Stat clone of R-27R with 8400m
AAM-3: Similar to AIM-9M but +5 ACC.
AIM-9R: +5 ACC over AIM-9M.
AIM-120B: +5 ACC over AIM-120A
AIM-120C: +200 or +300m range increase over AIM-120B.

FZAB: Combined napalm/HE damage, similar to how FAE are currently modeled.


That's it for now. I'll add more in as I have time to think about good air tab changes. Keep in mind this is basically a "wishlist", not anything official or with any kind of official support, implied or otherwise (don't ask me why MadMat stickied it). At best, I imagine modders would find more use out of it.
Last edited by Xeno426 on Wed 1 Feb 2017 18:36, edited 13 times in total.
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CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

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HrcAk47
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Re: To anyone that asked themselves "What would Xeno change to the air tabs if he had full control"

Postby HrcAk47 » Wed 16 Nov 2016 18:11

Ah, okay then, sorry to have doubted you, sensei. :mrgreen:
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Desty
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Re: To anyone that asked themselves "What would Xeno change to the air tabs if he had full control"

Postby Desty » Wed 16 Nov 2016 18:14

Eugen, just do what Xeno says about the Air Tabs...pls :D
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Re: To anyone that asked themselves "What would Xeno change to the air tabs if he had full control"

Postby Bougnas » Wed 16 Nov 2016 18:25

Xeno426 wrote:
Mirage F1C-200 -> "Jaguar A ATLIS" 2xBGL-400



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Re: To anyone that asked themselves "What would Xeno change to the air tabs if he had full control"

Postby keldon » Wed 16 Nov 2016 18:27

Xeno426 wrote:There's some good shifts that could be done for China and the Warsaw Pact nations, for instance.


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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Razzmann » Wed 16 Nov 2016 18:29

I want dat JH-7 with 24 cluster bombs!

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