Leave no man behind: WGermany

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Razzmann
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Razzmann » Mon 6 Mar 2017 02:31

I'm gonna be the dick here.

If Germany and / or France had gotten (a) Hawk variant(s), people would have complained about them getting (a) worthless unit(s) (like the Sonderwagen III for example, which adds nothing to Germany or EC, not even in Cat C motorised) because the Roland 3 is better and would always be taken over the Hawk(s).

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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Guggy » Mon 6 Mar 2017 02:43

Should have given them the S-300 imo

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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby HrcAk47 » Mon 6 Mar 2017 02:50

Redundancy is not a horribly bad thing, IMO.

If opportunity allows adding even a redundant unit at a low production cost (for example, adding Hawk or Kub variants to whomever applies), then it's always a good thing to have :) Even a Sonderwagen III is a nice addition, regardless to how useless it is.

But in real speak, I agree with Razzmann. Germany is very lucky to have both wheeled and tracked Rolands, as they offer great utility in spec decks as well. And Roland is a good system. Excellent acc, fast missiles, and carries a lot of them. Competitive price. NK would literally kill for a Roland.
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Steamfunk » Mon 6 Mar 2017 09:41

But in real speak, I agree with Razzmann. Germany is very lucky to have both wheeled and tracked Rolands, as they offer great utility in spec decks as well.


If Roland had less than 3500m range and 50/55% accuracy I would agree. The reload only matters if you take one of them, and I usually have a pair of SAMs if I want to take down planes. Also pre-1991 W Germany had nothing more modern than the F-4F and the flying coffin. Bear in mind they were offered both the Lightning and Buccaneer and you get an idea of their priorities.

East Germany was more restricted because the Soviets wouldn't allow them to produce anything. Their equipment was enough to deal with whatever NATO had at that time. France had around 1000-1500 AMX-30 and the Leo 2 was about the same.

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Re: Why does West Germany get shafted so hard in this game?

Postby Wolke » Mon 6 Mar 2017 21:01

antred wrote:
James-Bond wrote:1) Tanks,
- Nations that that have 2 tanks, that shoot better than 19 AP {UK, Netherlands, Finland}
- All other nations have 1 tank that can shoot over 19 AP.
- E-Germany best Tank [Kpz T-72S] shoots 20 AP...


In real life, I think the best East Germany had were a few T-72Ms ... most of their tanks were T-55s, so I think them getting T-72Ss is quite ok.




Meh, at least the upgrades were planed. East-Germany isn't the only nation who got tanks they never get to use due to RL events, but for some reason theirs cap out at 20AP @1991 (like all of their prototypes - 1991 newest for some reason), while others get nice 23AP @1994 glasscanons with high accuracy to boot ( ;

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Re: Why does West Germany get shafted so hard in this game?

Postby FrangibleCover » Mon 6 Mar 2017 21:25

Wolke wrote:Meh, at least the upgrades were planed. East-Germany isn't the only nation who got tanks they never get to use due to RL events, but for some reason theirs cap out at 20AP @1991 (like all of their prototypes - 1991 newest for some reason), while others get nice 23AP @1994 glasscanons with high accuracy to boot ( ;

I think they're all set to 1991 because we have no reasonable way of knowing exactly when all of the equipment would actually have arrived (planned delivery dates are plans) and 1991 is a convenient date to make it look like there are fewer post-1991 units in game. :mrgreen:
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Vulcan 607 » Mon 6 Mar 2017 22:49

Steamfunk wrote:
But in real speak, I agree with Razzmann. Germany is very lucky to have both wheeled and tracked Rolands, as they offer great utility in spec decks as well.


If Roland had less than 3500m range and 50/55% accuracy I would agree. The reload only matters if you take one of them, and I usually have a pair of SAMs if I want to take down planes. Also pre-1991 W Germany had nothing more modern than the F-4F and the flying coffin. Bear in mind they were offered both the Lightning and Buccaneer and you get an idea of their priorities.

East Germany was more restricted because the Soviets wouldn't allow them to produce anything. Their equipment was enough to deal with whatever NATO had at that time. France had around 1000-1500 AMX-30 and the Leo 2 was about the same.



Well I get why they didn't get the lightning because at the time the UK didn't really want it due to the 1957 defence white paper that said everything would be done by missiles. cue Vietnam and awkward realisation we had cocked up massively (seriously look at what we cancelled) we still didn't really upgrade lightning. As for the buccaneer the only reason why most of western Europe got the F104 (often as a bomber!) Was because of the massive bribes provided by lockheed (Who want to bet they are up to their old tricks?) If it wasn't for the bribes a lot of countries would have an actually useable ground attack aircraft.

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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Mako » Mon 6 Mar 2017 23:58

Razzmann wrote:I'm gonna be the dick here.

If Germany and / or France had gotten (a) Hawk variant(s), people would have complained about them getting (a) worthless unit(s) (like the Sonderwagen III for example, which adds nothing to Germany or EC, not even in Cat C motorised) because the Roland 3 is better and would always be taken over the Hawk(s).


It's a copy paste though, not a worthless new model.
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Razzmann » Tue 7 Mar 2017 00:17

Mako wrote:It's a copy paste though, not a worthless new model.

Every nation that was in ALB already got a certain amount of new units, and I am pretty sure giving them a Hawk would have taken up a spot.

Sure it is just copy paste, but I don't think Eugen hands out units like that.

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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby FrangibleCover » Tue 7 Mar 2017 00:25

Mako wrote:
Razzmann wrote:I'm gonna be the dick here.

If Germany and / or France had gotten (a) Hawk variant(s), people would have complained about them getting (a) worthless unit(s) (like the Sonderwagen III for example, which adds nothing to Germany or EC, not even in Cat C motorised) because the Roland 3 is better and would always be taken over the Hawk(s).

It's a copy paste though, not a worthless new model.

Isn't the Sonderwagen III just a reskinned Saladin in the recon tab? Rag on the Milan Iltis if you like though.
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