SU-24 SEAD, some love?

User avatar
中铁四局
Sergeant Major of the Army
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri 17 Feb 2012 13:10
Contact:

SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby 中铁四局 » Sun 5 Mar 2017 10:00

Looks like no one bring this meh performing SEAD plane for a very long time, but, to be honest, this plane is plain SUCK for its SEAD role...
Okay, I'll try to list some pros and cons

PROS:
#1, great AP value! 28AP is awesome! (provided if it hits something)

#2, relatively cheap, 80pts, okish!

#3, Soviet Supreme, Soviet is gud, so no matter how suck SU-24 is, Soviet gud therefore Su-24 gud.

CONS:
#1. Shit ECM, 20% ECM for a SEAD plane, this story is way too cool to be swallowed.

#2. 50% sead missile accuracy plus 2 rookies vet, it hardly score a hit....

#3+4. SEAD range is limited for only 4550m, plus a huge turn radius, poor ECM, prone to be shoot done by a cheap SAM, hardly for it to fulfill its obvious SEAD role

#5. only 2 rookies available at most, waste of USSR expensive air tab.

#6. It stinks for years, nobody cares about it because it sucks for a long time.


Spoiler : :
SU-24 old.png
SU-24 old.png (535.09 KiB) Viewed 643 times


Possible buff:
Option #1, ECM from 20% to 30%, availability from 2 rookie 1 Elite to 3 rookie 2 harden, price 80pts--> 95 pts. ( I love this most)

Option #2, ECM from 20% to 40%, missile range from 4550m to 4950m, Accuracy from 50% to 60%, price from 80pts to 120pts.

Option #3, Availability from 2 rookies to 3 rookies, hum...... it sucks still, but make it suicidal


PS: Love the Steel division, but I'm still waiting Eugen to give us a Wargame EE 2!
Dear Eugen, Please give T-72BU its iconic red-eye shtora system back! It looks mean and awesome!

User avatar
Grabbed_by_the_Spets
General
Posts: 6125
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2012 11:40
Contact:

Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Sun 5 Mar 2017 12:08

Could be worse, could be either of the SU-22's

User avatar
FrangibleCover
Lieutenant
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon 14 Nov 2016 21:34
Contact:

Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 5 Mar 2017 12:22

中铁四局 wrote:Possible buff:
Option #1, ECM from 20% to 30%, availability from 2 rookie 1 Elite to 3 rookie 2 harden, price 80pts--> 95 pts. ( I love this most)

Option #2, ECM from 20% to 40%, missile range from 4550m to 4950m, Accuracy from 50% to 60%, price from 80pts to 120pts.

Option #3, Availability from 2 rookies to 3 rookies, hum...... it sucks still, but make it suicidal

You can't just change ECM, range and accuracy around like that, they're stats that are broadly pegged to real life stats. Looking at the PUFF, which is the same price but slower with worse missiles, 2x Sidewinders and 10% more ECM, it has 3 Rookie, 2 Hardened availability, which I think is a reasonable thing to ask for. The Ayit is similar but cheaper and worse. The thing is that the BM is pretty decent so it's not a critical change but it is a nice one.
[Non-included Nation] Belgium - Now with Spreadsheet!
[Non-included Nation] Pakistan

User avatar
HrcAk47
Colonel
Posts: 2639
Joined: Sat 3 May 2014 18:00
Contact:

Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby HrcAk47 » Sun 5 Mar 2017 12:41

I think that it's a waste of platform. When I hear "Su-24”, I think "strategic bombload at tactical level".

Anyway, the ECM should definitely be better, as it goes (i am describing only the most basic ECM suite on the "Fencer-A"):

+10 for RWR (check, SPO-10)
+10 for chaff/flare (check, Automat-F)
+10 for pre-85 jammers/+20 for post-85 jammers (check, Geran-F, pretty powerful but let's say pre-85)
+10 if it's a SEAD plane (which it is).

A conservative estimate puts Su-24 at 40 ECM. In Cat-C.

Currently, some planes (big ones like C-Eagle, D-Eagle, F-18, Tiffy, Rafale) have magical stats (50% ECM) that can not be justified in any way. And EF-111 Raven exists.

So, with that in mind, the Su-24 can have any amount of ECM, really.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

User avatar
Azaz3l
Brigadier
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sat 1 Oct 2011 10:38
Location: Bus 410
Contact:

Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby Azaz3l » Sun 5 Mar 2017 12:57

How about we actually step up the veterancy a level (or two) and maybe reduce price ? What kills Su-24 SEAD atm is the low veterancy (and thus accuracy) and low ECM value.
Image

User avatar
FrangibleCover
Lieutenant
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon 14 Nov 2016 21:34
Contact:

Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 5 Mar 2017 13:13

HrcAk47 wrote:I think that it's a waste of platform. When I hear "Su-24”, I think "strategic bombload at tactical level".

Anyway, the ECM should definitely be better, as it goes:

+10 for RWR (check, SPO-10)
+10 for chaff/flare (check, Automat-F)
+10 for pre-85 jammers/+20 for post-85 jammers (check, Geran-F, pretty powerful but let's say pre-85)
+10 if it's a SEAD plane (which it is).

A conservative estimate puts Su-24 at 40 ECM. In Cat-C.

Currently, some planes (big ones like C-Eagle, D-Eagle, F-18, Tiffy, Rafale) have magical stats (50% ECM) that can not be justified in any way. And EF-111 Raven exists.

So, with that in mind, the Su-24 can have any amount of ECM, really.

Yeah, alright, I should probably have checked what ECM it should have rather than assuming it was right. I'd only give it 40% ECM though, the reason the Raven has 60% ECM is that it has all of the above, including a frankly huge jammer (+20), and two EWOs (+20 for being a dedicated SEAD/EW plane). The problem with the Raven is the HARMs.

With the correct 40% ECM then there should be a price increase and we walk away.
[Non-included Nation] Belgium - Now with Spreadsheet!
[Non-included Nation] Pakistan

User avatar
molnibalage
General
Posts: 6490
Joined: Thu 1 Aug 2013 22:54
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby molnibalage » Sun 5 Mar 2017 13:51

FrangibleCover wrote:
中铁四局 wrote:Possible buff:
Option #1, ECM from 20% to 30%, availability from 2 rookie 1 Elite to 3 rookie 2 harden, price 80pts--> 95 pts. ( I love this most)

Option #2, ECM from 20% to 40%, missile range from 4550m to 4950m, Accuracy from 50% to 60%, price from 80pts to 120pts.

Option #3, Availability from 2 rookies to 3 rookies, hum...... it sucks still, but make it suicidal

You can't just change ECM, range and accuracy around like that, they're stats that are broadly pegged to real life stats. Looking at the PUFF, which is the same price but slower with worse missiles, 2x Sidewinders and 10% more ECM, it has 3 Rookie, 2 Hardened availability, which I think is a reasonable thing to ask for. The Ayit is similar but cheaper and worse. The thing is that the BM is pretty decent so it's not a critical change but it is a nice one.


ECM to 30% is fine. A C cat USSR SEAD should not be more potent than Cat C US F-4G...

User avatar
axnone
First Sergeant
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri 12 Aug 2016 19:39
Location: Caerdydd
Contact:

Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby axnone » Sun 5 Mar 2017 13:53

FrangibleCover wrote:I'd only give it 40% ECM though, the reason the Raven has 60% ECM is that it has all of the above, including a frankly huge jammer (+20), and two EWOs (+20 for being a dedicated SEAD/EW plane). The problem with the Raven is the HARMs.

With the correct 40% ECM then there should be a price increase and we walk away.

The Raven should lose it`s ARMs,making it a scout plane (for SAMs,not other ground units), historically wise.
Maybe buff its speed and price, and you have a very interesting bait/scout plane. The EA-6B and F-4 fits the attack role perfectly already.

SU-24 and JH-7A should both get some love on account of ECM.
Image
二营长你他娘的PLZ-45呢,给我拉来!
Spoiler : :
A better Zhanshi`85(`90) for China!
RPG and\or price buff,Type 81 optional.
Dream come true?
:arrow: http://forums.eugensystems.com/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=59331#p1019327

User avatar
HrcAk47
Colonel
Posts: 2639
Joined: Sat 3 May 2014 18:00
Contact:

Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby HrcAk47 » Sun 5 Mar 2017 14:14

molnibalage wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:
中铁四局 wrote:Possible buff:
Option #1, ECM from 20% to 30%, availability from 2 rookie 1 Elite to 3 rookie 2 harden, price 80pts--> 95 pts. ( I love this most)

Option #2, ECM from 20% to 40%, missile range from 4550m to 4950m, Accuracy from 50% to 60%, price from 80pts to 120pts.

Option #3, Availability from 2 rookies to 3 rookies, hum...... it sucks still, but make it suicidal

You can't just change ECM, range and accuracy around like that, they're stats that are broadly pegged to real life stats. Looking at the PUFF, which is the same price but slower with worse missiles, 2x Sidewinders and 10% more ECM, it has 3 Rookie, 2 Hardened availability, which I think is a reasonable thing to ask for. The Ayit is similar but cheaper and worse. The thing is that the BM is pretty decent so it's not a critical change but it is a nice one.


ECM to 30% is fine. A C cat USSR SEAD should not be more potent than Cat C US F-4G...


CAT A US air defense should not be more potent than CAT A USSR air defense. See where I'm going with this?
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

User avatar
molnibalage
General
Posts: 6490
Joined: Thu 1 Aug 2013 22:54
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby molnibalage » Sun 5 Mar 2017 15:19

HrcAk47 wrote:CAT A US air defense should not be more potent than CAT A USSR air defense. See where I'm going with this?

No, I cannot see. US air defense is totally impotent even with Patriot comparing to USSR's.

Tung. SEAD immune (which should not be...) 65% base ACC 3375 ma range anti helo platfrom with AAA on armored fast platfrom...? Comparing to both Tung best Chappy has laughable low base ACC, has no armor. For God sake for a time it has only 5HP...

Tor. Over modeled comparing to Roland 3... Rolands should be SEAD immune if Tung. are but only the crappiest FRA Roland is...

Osa AKM. Even in Cat A is useful, in Cat C is the most uber brutal AC unit. Area deinal for all helos, one shot kill all helos except 10HP transport, even in cat A has same range as AGM-144

Strela-10 is now the only IR SHORAD which can launch during move while IRL was not capable to do this...

Buk was available in cat C even in ALB just because Eugen did not want to give Kub for USSR. Was funny in ALB to see when C cat USSR deck spammed the 4XP Buk, it eradicated even the USA air tab.

PIVAD range is pure crap, its only good thing is long burts and in tactical or 1v1 game the amphi capability someties is good to have fire support on ground.


It does not matter that you have Patriot. Patrion in most of time needs two hits to kill. Only problem two Pat cost 240 PC and in case you lost one you do not have backup. --->If you combine with HAWK + Chappy you have only 2 slots for mortar + ATCAMS + Palandin...

While 2xTOR can kill any AC even a single Tor can sometimes kill AC because its fast missile and very high RoF. Tung with missile + gun can kill alone a stupid AC which comes close even the Raven. One card of Tung and Tor has 4 vehicles. Only with two slots you can manage anyting with USSR.

In any era comparing to any other nation USSR air defense is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar superior. Not only the air defesne, the whole SUP tab...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests