SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Steamfunk
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Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby Steamfunk » Tue 7 Mar 2017 18:35

Note he only listed Blue planes. No RED planes. Not even a Yugo Fairy.


The F-4G has 40% ECM and that doesn't exactly break the game.

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Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby GARGEAN » Tue 7 Mar 2017 19:32

Xeno426 wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:+10 for RWR (check, SPO-10)
+10 for chaff/flare (check, Automat-F)
+10 for pre-85 jammers/+20 for post-85 jammers (check, Geran-F, pretty powerful but let's say pre-85)
+10 if it's a SEAD plane (which it is).

A conservative estimate puts Su-24 at 40 ECM. In Cat-C.

Currently, some planes (big ones like C-Eagle, D-Eagle, F-18, Tiffy, Rafale) have magical stats (50% ECM) that can not be justified in any way. And EF-111 Raven exists.

:lol:
You gotta be trolling.

Well, what's exactly wrong with this criteria? I though that such calculation(+10 for some additional modules and over that for advanced ones).

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Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby Guggy » Tue 7 Mar 2017 19:50

Xeno already did this, as well as aircraft gun rebalance proposal way back in late ALB I think.

Difference is he's credible.

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Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby GARGEAN » Tue 7 Mar 2017 19:52

Guggy wrote:Xeno already did this, as well as aircraft gun rebalance proposal way back in late ALB I think.

Difference is he's credible.

Well, "credible" is far too faded term. And if my memory serves me right, his calcs was somewhat comparable with this ones.

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Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby Guggy » Tue 7 Mar 2017 19:56

Faded?

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Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby wargamer1985 » Tue 7 Mar 2017 20:26

GARGEAN wrote:
Guggy wrote:Xeno already did this, as well as aircraft gun rebalance proposal way back in late ALB I think.

Difference is he's credible.

Well, "credible" is far too faded term. And if my memory serves me right, his calcs was somewhat comparable with this ones.


He suggested 30% ECM for the Su-24.

Like I said, it deserves an ECM buff, but saying it warrants 40% ECM and then arguing that aircraft like the F/A-18E, Rafale and similar air frames have a "magical" and unwarranted 50% ECM (whilst conveniently forgetting to mention such craft like the Su-27PU, which are of similar capacity to the F-15C) it quite ludicrous at best.
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Steamfunk
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Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby Steamfunk » Tue 7 Mar 2017 20:57

Like I said, it deserves an ECM buff, but saying it warrants 40% ECM and then arguing that aircraft like the F/A-18E, Rafale and similar air frames have a "magical" and unwarranted 50% ECM (whilst conveniently forgetting to mention such craft like the Su-27PU, which are of similar capacity to the F-15C) it quite ludicrous at best.


They gave bonuses to those aircraft in particular because they are balanced against each other. Here are a list of Blufor SEAD planes with 50% ECM -

Prowler
Raven (60%)
Voodoo
Tornado ECR
KF-16C

Redfor -

MiG-25BM

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molnibalage
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Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby molnibalage » Wed 8 Mar 2017 01:04

Steamfunk wrote:
Like I said, it deserves an ECM buff, but saying it warrants 40% ECM and then arguing that aircraft like the F/A-18E, Rafale and similar air frames have a "magical" and unwarranted 50% ECM (whilst conveniently forgetting to mention such craft like the Su-27PU, which are of similar capacity to the F-15C) it quite ludicrous at best.


They gave bonuses to those aircraft in particular because they are balanced against each other. Here are a list of Blufor SEAD planes with 50% ECM -

Prowler
Raven (60%)
Voodoo
Tornado ECR
KF-16C

Redfor -

MiG-25BM

And...? Baby this was the reality...
Still most of red jets are over modeled and tons of blue jets are undermodeled over the glory of "balance". For ex. F-16A and F-16C have 20-30% ECM while they carried almost the same RWR and ECM pods as later but close F-16 variants... A dispenserless MiG-21bis can have the same ECM as F-16A. Sorry, I have to laugh...

Anothe factor is the loadout. Red jets somehow always got full loadout while most of blue jets only partial. More serious the performance of these fully loaded aircraft. A MiG-21bis with AAM + strike config can have 1000 km/h speed while the same category F-105 or F-5 have 750 km/h speed even in ASF config... Aham...

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Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby HrcAk47 » Wed 8 Mar 2017 02:30

molnibalage wrote:
They gave bonuses to those aircraft in particular because they are balanced against each other. Here are a list of Blufor SEAD planes with 50% ECM -

Prowler
Raven (60%)
Voodoo
Tornado ECR
KF-16C

Redfor -

MiG-25BM

And...? Baby this was the reality...


Oh boy you actually said it.

So, if Raven is "realistic" in the game, why not add in a Su-24MP? On which we can "realistically" add in 12 SEAD missiles? 60 ECM, heck yes!

Also If I remember correctly, Raven and Prowler use the same ECM suite. Why the difference in ECM?

Also, lol at Electric Voodoo's 50 ECM. It uses an ECM suite from EB-57E Canberra. A Canberra. From the 50s.

I am waiting for you to now say "it doesn't matter, powerful jammers are timeless" or something along those lines
:lol:


molnibalage wrote:Still most of red jets are over modeled and tons of blue jets are undermodeled over the glory of "balance". For ex. F-16A and F-16C have 20-30% ECM while they carried almost the same RWR and ECM pods as later but close F-16 variants... A dispenserless MiG-21bis can have the same ECM as F-16A. Sorry, I have to laugh...


Make a list what's wrong, and post it. Internalizing grief will only lead to a chronic illness. :mrgreen:


molnibalage wrote:Anothe factor is the loadout. Red jets somehow always got full loadout while most of blue jets only partial. More serious the performance of these fully loaded aircraft. A MiG-21bis with AAM + strike config can have 1000 km/h speed while the same category F-105 or F-5 have 750 km/h speed even in ASF config... Aham...


No, Red jets do not get full loadouts much more than the western ones do. Not even Yugo gets full loads. I mean, we can totally do a variant of Orao with 8x FAB-275M-91 thermobarics, or the one with 5x FAB-500. Or we can do Su-24M with 3xFAB-1500. That one is really neat.

And if you wanna talk about performance drops, what will you do about a F-4D Peace Pheasant I which flies just as good as all other F-4 phantoms... even though it carries 25 bombs and all the necessary pylons for them?
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Re: SU-24 SEAD, some love?

Postby Partibrejker » Wed 8 Mar 2017 04:23

HrcAk47 wrote:




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