Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Pantheon
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Pantheon » Mon 6 Mar 2017 12:22

Tiera wrote:3-stack of superheavies, light mortar, some recon for spotting and AA + ASFs to counter heloes and ATGM planes.

Use Entente with Modernas for maximum dankness, but any superheavy stack will do.

Keep 'em smoked, pop in and out of the cloud cover to kill targets with one salvo, and keep your land battleship on the move to avoid cluster.


Are you serious about stacking supers...?

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Tiera
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Tiera » Mon 6 Mar 2017 12:42

Pantheon wrote:
Tiera wrote:Are you serious about stacking supers...?

Try it out, all the cool kids are smoking them!
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Pantheon » Mon 6 Mar 2017 12:59

Tiera wrote:
Pantheon wrote:
Tiera wrote:Are you serious about stacking supers...?

Try it out, all the cool kids are smoking them!


Even with smoking the superheavies, it will scream for ATACMS or Smerch.

+170 +170 +170

Never stack superheavies.

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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby sonic » Mon 6 Mar 2017 13:36

In a conquest teamgame all coalitions are somewhat viable, RD, BD, Skandi and DGC are worse, but that depends on map and playstyle.

In a 1v1 nation rating it looks like:

1. israel
2. yugo
3....
4....
5. ussr
6. usa

all other nations have too many flaws and are a pain to play with

the best coalition is baltic front

without dlc nswp, eurocorps and cmw are pretty good too

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Tiera
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Tiera » Mon 6 Mar 2017 17:45

Pantheon wrote:
Even with smoking the superheavies, it will scream for ATACMS or Smerch.

+170 +170 +170

Never stack superheavies.


Both counters are rather easy to avoid, see the part of keeping them on the move.

And naturally you'll split them occasionally when necessary. As far as competetive Conquest teamgames go, you're bound to see smoked superheavies these days.
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby antred » Mon 6 Mar 2017 19:35

Mako wrote:Eurocorps [...] AA is lacking.


Really? How? It doesn't have super-long range AA, but in all other compartments, EuroCorps has some of the finest AA in the game. Mistral + Crotale + Roland 3 + Gepard + Stinger = pretty darn lethal IMO.

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varis
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby varis » Mon 6 Mar 2017 19:49

Tiera wrote:3-stack of superheavies, light mortar, some recon for spotting and AA + ASFs to counter heloes and ATGM planes.

Use Entente with Modernas for maximum dankness, but any superheavy stack will do.

Keep 'em smoked, pop in and out of the cloud cover to kill targets with one salvo, and keep your land battleship on the move to avoid cluster.


Image

That sounds indeed a dank way to use smoke.

But on a theoretical level, it is a very interesting observation. Even when there are no balance changes as such, and things are 'correct' (?), the meta has instability because there is human (=player) learning. It may take a long time but eventually there is a pattern switch from emergent meta dynamics and the dialectic logic progresses. I think we saw something similar with Eve Online. Somebody eventually came up with an innovative fit, regardless of balance changes. It didn't happen in just a few weeks, it took its time, but it revolutionized how the game plays. Just goes to underline that the player community is an active component in creating the meta.

So, anybody interested in rolling research into video game metas as an academic discipline?

Back to topic, I'm wondering how universal this pattern of using smoke is - widespread enough to be identified a key part of the meta? If you smoke your AA (a way of offensive smoke way back), that increases the burden of micromanagement,
so this tactic might be more useful for top level players who don't get so easily distracted. In many places we don't even have such open spaces though the more recent maps may have more of them? Also can't you turn around the enemy's defensive smoke into your offensive smoke and rush the thing with lots of cheap stuff?
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Razzmann
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Razzmann » Mon 6 Mar 2017 19:55

You don't see people actually 3 stacking their superheavies, unless it's a noob...

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HrcAk47
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby HrcAk47 » Mon 6 Mar 2017 20:11

3stack of superheavies is a biiiit too much for all practical purposes - that having been said, I will surely react to 650ish points of enemy investment (incl mortars) by either attacking elsewhere, infiltrating recon or just bomb/arty the smoked-up land equivalent of a Fletcher-class destroyer. Stacked units tend to share morale, and my enemy likely skimped out on infantry, recon, AA, air power... or most likely all of the above, which will make things considerably easier.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Tiera
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Tiera » Mon 6 Mar 2017 22:19

Razzmann wrote:You don't see people actually 3 stacking their superheavies, unless it's a noob...

In reality I'm referring to a single instance against a competent Russian team. It was infuriatingly effective. Pratically it's just one superheavy at a time.
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