Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

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Razzmann
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Razzmann » Mon 6 Mar 2017 22:41

Tiera wrote:
Razzmann wrote:You don't see people actually 3 stacking their superheavies, unless it's a noob...

In reality I'm referring to a single instance against a competent Russian team. It was infuriatingly effective. Pratically it's just one superheavy at a time.

Yeah, I figured you were a bit exaggerating on purpuse :P

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Mako
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Mako » Mon 6 Mar 2017 23:03

antred wrote:
Mako wrote:Eurocorps [...] AA is lacking.


Really? How? It doesn't have super-long range AA, but in all other compartments, EuroCorps has some of the finest AA in the game. Mistral + Crotale + Roland 3 + Gepard + Stinger = pretty darn lethal IMO.


Because it's all short ranged, and Rolands have terrible availability for some inexplicable reason (though they also get inexplicable top armor to balance that out so they're really hard to kill)

Sure they're good at killing the supergaleb after your 2A5s are dead.



Stacking superheavies is kind of funny, if you can do it right you can focus fire down each enemy tank one at a time and it is very lethal. It's also really annoying because it feels like you're getting rekt by a noob when you see them grouped.
If there's two kinds of players, those that like challenges and those that want a fair game, pubstomps should make everyone happy.

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Razzmann
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Razzmann » Mon 6 Mar 2017 23:24

Eurocorps AA is good. An extra one or two Rolands per card does not suddenly make it so much better. I run 2 cards anyways and rarely need more than 3. They may not have the best anti plane range but still good enough to get shots off after the enemy planes dropped their payload. And you have the best selection of ASFs available to make up for long range anti plane aa.

And no aa will save your superheavy from getting killed by Su-27Ms & CO. other than the Patriot, smoke is mandatory anyways.

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Mako
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Mako » Tue 7 Mar 2017 00:09

Razzmann wrote:Eurocorps AA is good. An extra one or two Rolands per card does not suddenly make it so much better. I run 2 cards anyways and rarely need more than 3. They may not have the best anti plane range but still good enough to get shots off after the enemy planes dropped their payload. And you have the best selection of ASFs available to make up for long range anti plane aa.

And no aa will save your superheavy from getting killed by Su-27Ms & CO. other than the Patriot, smoke is mandatory anyways.


If you have a Hawk or something near to or a little behind your tank, you can prevent the enemy from getting off a shot. Rolands have to literally be in between your tank and the plane.

Now they're very tough, fast and have a great pK so maybe I'm underselling them.


ASFs help, but even an elite Rafale has something around a 60% chance of dying to two fin Mig-29s if my math is right, especially if you have to leave it on cap. (.90 CTH (may be higher actually) x .5 (for ECM) x 4 missiles, probability that number of hits = at least 2 = .6)
If there's two kinds of players, those that like challenges and those that want a fair game, pubstomps should make everyone happy.

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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby chykka » Tue 7 Mar 2017 04:26

Usually it's the fast land grab opening that the early meta revolves around, than transition too air support and reinforcements. Than the late/ mid game turns into Super heavies and infantry pushes. While Late game is just preserving all units and making moves with whole army,
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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Steamfunk » Tue 7 Mar 2017 18:48

So, anybody interested in rolling research into video game metas as an academic discipline?


Most of it comes under groupthink, I believe. Seriously though, play the way you want and you'll find a strat that works. It isn't a perfect information game so there's plenty of guesswork involved.

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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Mako » Tue 7 Mar 2017 21:09

It's such an interesting combination of psychology, sociology, business concepts, game theory and arithmetic.



Something I've noticed recently is that playing a deck not seen as the most optimal can actually give you an advantage, namely in that people know exactly how to respond to seeing the generic best units of the day, they've done it a hundred times.

But they're forced to improvise or go off script when they come up against something new.

I've seen players get completely stymied by Strv103Ds hilariously enough, they try the normal tactics they'd apply to a tank in that price range and they just don't work the same. Not that Scandy is somehow a top tier deck or the tank is a super unit, just the "if X appears, do Y" response doesn't always work the same when you sub X for Z.
If there's two kinds of players, those that like challenges and those that want a fair game, pubstomps should make everyone happy.

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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby HrcAk47 » Tue 7 Mar 2017 21:33

A game that offers multiple ways to solve a problem, and by consequence, allow metas to happen, is by definition a good game, which can be definitely said for this game.

Even better is that not even metas are set in stone, and vary in time even without dev intervention.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Senseo1990 » Wed 8 Mar 2017 02:33

First of all: Thank you very much for your detailed replies. This is quite the contrast to the global ingame chat :lol: Im glad that these forums are still full of helpful fans. I dont have any specific questions at the moment I think, first I will have to learn more factions/coalitions. The general guideline I gathered from this topic will help me a lot with this.

Cheers

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Re: Strong/Viable Nations, Meta

Postby Seryn » Tue 14 Mar 2017 02:43

R3d Sh4mbala wrote:If it was nationals only, DDR takes the cake, with its really flexible deck choices IMHO.
Everything from cheap to expensive huge variety of capability.
Doesn't get punished for high tech like USSR does. Doesn't feel like a minor nation like in ALB.

Good all around workhorse. [Although there are people with reservations on that scenario.]


DDR has in my opinion the best helo Lineup, thanks to the KHS and DHS Mi-24Ps, And the recon Mi-8 is fantastic. Lets not forget Fuhrungspanzer BMP-2 and Shock Command infantry. Wachregiments in Hinds as a wannabe Kommandosi, Kampfpanzer T-72S1 (the one where you don't pay for an ATGM) and a positively nightmare fuel AA selection like the FlaKom TOR, OSAs, KUBs, FlaSfl 256 Tunguska and the whipped Cream on the Pumpkin pie, a MiG-29 that can actually fight a NATO ASF in a 1v1 duel.

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