Nuclear winter, could we have a rework?

Pleb Squasher
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Nuclear winter, could we have a rework?

Postby Pleb Squasher » Thu 9 Mar 2017 06:00

While there are a few maps with some problems, Nuclear Winter is one map which is in serious need of a re-work, for several reasons.

I play armoured in ranked, so this map is pretty much an instant loss for me. It's fair to say that I accept some disadvantage in ranked matches, but this map not only makes the game impossible to win against equally skilled players, it also isn't fun to play on at all.
It's just too big, overly favours moto/helo rushes and so much area is covered by forest/towns which makes it very very hard to play on.

Obviously though, this isn't the main issue with the map, the main issue is how grossly one sided this map is despite what decks are used, easily moreso than any other map in the game. The map is so one sided, that we see the same strategy applied almost every match, the rushing of the 'far right/left' towns in the two pointer zones, yeah you all know which ones I mean. It's pretty insane how poorly designed these zones are, despite being so much close to the 'defending' player than the other, motorised units still beat mechanised forces by a long shot to this area. allowing players with fast decks to be fully set up, in forward game winning positions, before a players using tracked units even arrives. Additionally, the map is situated so that it's both incredibly hard to attack these zones, but also near impossible to cut off reinforcements to them, which should be a viable strat on a map so large, yet it isn't.

Obviously we probably won't see a re-work, however it'd be great if anyone has some advice for how I could pull off armoured on this map. Obviously armoured isn't the meta, but other spec decks like moto and mech are perfectly viable, so don't see why armoured shouldn't be given similar consideration when it comes to map balance. Mobility is the most important trait to have in wargame, and armoured is sorely lacking while not really having any advantage to compensate when it comes to harsh maps like this.

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Re: Nuclear winter, could we have a rework?

Postby Wirri » Thu 9 Mar 2017 10:31

Don't play armored decks? And I doubt eugen will rework any maps
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Re: Nuclear winter, could we have a rework?

Postby urogard » Thu 9 Mar 2017 13:39

I must be very ignorant since I don't play ranked, but:
a) you have to pick a deck and can't see in advance what map you'll be playing?
b) asking for a map to be reworked to favor one spec more than it does now for no particular reason?

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Re: Nuclear winter, could we have a rework?

Postby Razzmann » Thu 9 Mar 2017 13:49

urogard wrote:a) you have to pick a deck and can't see in advance what map you'll be playing?

No... it would be stupid.

urogard wrote:b) asking for a map to be reworked to favor one spec more than it does now for no particular reason?

Not mentioning that the spec is not particularely bad for the map anyways.

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Re: Nuclear winter, could we have a rework?

Postby XanderTuron » Thu 9 Mar 2017 22:56

While I feel that Nuclear Winter is a kind of awkward map due to its size, I find that the only really annoying thing about it is the sheer number of 2 point zones.
My mouth is moving, but nothing relevant is coming out. Also I cannot guarantee that my research is perfect or even remotely accurate.

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Re: Nuclear winter, could we have a rework?

Postby urogard » Fri 10 Mar 2017 00:41

Razzmann wrote:
urogard wrote:b) asking for a map to be reworked to favor one spec more than it does now for no particular reason?

Not mentioning that the spec is not particularely bad for the map anyways.

Which I agree with.
Armored may not be particularly great for 1v1 games in general, but it's quite a decent choice for that map.

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Re: Nuclear winter, could we have a rework?

Postby chykka » Sat 11 Mar 2017 06:49

If you go spec just nurture the imbalances that are there some are in the map the rest are in your deck. Or any spec for that mater, it can be map dependent to an extent where and how you play the deck. Wonson was pretty bad for armour but if your defending the river side it might not be all that bad situation. Still pretty difficult spec armour is limited there unless you have some cheap tanks maybe will be better than support vehicles but in a map like wonson there is limited space and you can't push far before your tanks are challenged. Assuming your not against East block mech on wonson you may have some way to push them without taking heavy losses. Nuclear you can even get away with playing the far +2 because the extra spawn and your extra exp tanks can have an edge crossing too their +2. You can make more use of it by going straight ahead to the close +2 but again is a gamble as you can't see where they go for the first little while except maybe Sead and helicopter scouting. Tanks usually are limited by how far they can travel with support before they can't be protected by other units. You can potentially push close to there spawn if you put most of your resources there it would be difficult to deal with and the units that cross the river will not be of as much use for the time being. That being said abandoning any zones is pretty quick way to lose any advantage you make if they take advantage of that imbalance you made.
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Re: Nuclear winter, could we have a rework?

Postby Pleb Squasher » Sun 12 Mar 2017 08:53

urogard wrote:I must be very ignorant since I don't play ranked, but:
a) you have to pick a deck and can't see in advance what map you'll be playing?
b) asking for a map to be reworked to favor one spec more than it does now for no particular reason?


Not asking for it to be re-worked just for benefit of armoured. Even if both players are playing non-themed decks, we still see the same rush and the person on the 'bad side' is always forced into defending their far two pointer. So the issue is already present regarding all decks, it's just overly unfair on slow deck users, in the same way Wonsan harbour and Tropic Thunder were completely unfair on certain decks. The map just blatantly favours one side.

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Re: Nuclear winter, could we have a rework?

Postby urogard » Sun 12 Mar 2017 17:02

Pleb Squasher wrote:we still see the same rush and the person on the 'bad side' is always forced into defending their far two pointer. So the issue is already present regarding all decks, it's just overly unfair on slow deck users, in the same way Wonsan harbour and Tropic Thunder were completely unfair on certain decks. The map just blatantly favours one side.

way too many maps give an advantage to one side on individual sectors, and unfortunately not always is the other side given some other advantage in return...

that's an EUG map design mentality issue rather than a problem with any individual map...

many times highlighted, the results are visible and it's all you'll ever get, so making a new thread about it is pointless at this point.

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