Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Seryn
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Re: Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Postby Seryn » Tue 14 Mar 2017 01:50

thelizardofdoom wrote:Does this mean that t-34s would come at 300 a card?


Yes. And AMX 10 RC SB would come at 150 per card. and M8 AGS and Super M60 at 125 per card.


DarkKnightz01k wrote:
James-Bond wrote:potentially seeing 8 x Challenger 2 in a deck lol
do you really need that many?
seriously though, don't think this would be good for game balance.


Yes game balance is one thing to take in mind ,

but then again won't the opponent players will have same 8x Abrams or Leopards 2A5 , T90s
to against player's challenger's.

and Still yes if 8 units with 2 packs shall be 16 units, which could be too much modern tanks in game.

so If not 8 , i think Atleast 4 to 5 hardened units should be just there , which makes 10 tanks atleast with 2 max packs.
that should be just sufficient enough.

cuz even if you have 8 units and you loose 2 early in game , you have a chance to recruit 2 again.

and if one needs 12units , 6 trained with 2 max packs , would be good enough.

that would not be like over-number of modern tanks too much in game.

i mean , right now 2 or 3 tanks with 1 max packs, is also still kind of tooooo low.

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Similarly some artillery i see only have 3 units , like some French and US Paladin only 2 , that number is like too less.

which should also have been 4 atleast Mandatory to form a just sufficient group.

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In Wars in real life scenarios i saw on Tv and documentaries ,
the artillery teams that were deployed to fire were in 4 to 10 number of units, in one line firing up all the way.

similarly you see some MLRs/LARS multiple rockets launcher vehicles in war or training excercises,
they are spread like 4 to 8 in numbers over a field doing their job.

to me 2 or 3, units is like bit way less. 4 should have been minimum.
a field.


The only Superheavy a Player can have 4 of without Outnumbered Bonuses is Chally 2. Everything you say makes no sense. The game uses realism when it suits Balance. Chally 2 is already viewed as absurd as it can be argued to be one of the more survivable Superheavy.

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Re: Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Postby DarkKnightz01k » Tue 14 Mar 2017 18:57

i know some argue over with game balance thing , as per CP the price have to be reduced per unit , or the price shall go up

i had played singleplayer sometimes modding like 8 to 16 units for over 2 hours with given no time limit , against similar strong decks played/controlled by AI.

i reduced the price of very modern tanks to 150 max for Tier 5 tanks. i kept other tanks prices across 80-140 price range.

even if one increases Tier 5 tanks units , i don't think anyone would just reinforce just them with all CPs, that would be bit unwise
cuz Anit-Air defence and Artillery support are also somethings.



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Also i searched on Google "how many tanks are in a battalion" just to get to know , as what is it like in real world scenario

i got results as from quora ---

"The smallest maneuver element for tanks in the US Army is the Platoon. Since at least 1986, a Tank Platoon is four tanks.

The next unit up in size for tanks is either the Company or Troop (depending on whether they are in an armored unit, or a cavalry unit). A Tank Company has three platoons of four tanks each, with two additional tanks in the HQ platoon, for a total of 14 tanks. Sometimes tank and infantry Companies are cross-attached to each other, in which case they are usually referred to as a Team. A Tank-heavy Company Team would have two platoons of tanks plus two tanks in HQ platoon, for 10 total, plus an attached platoon of infantry (probably either in Strykers or Bradleys). An Infantry Company Team would have two platoons of infantry, plus an attached platoon of tanks (4 tanks total). A Cavalry Troop with tanks (not as common anymore as it once was) will have two Tank Platoons and one tank in HQ platoon, for a total of 9 tanks. It will also have two Scout Platoons.

Next up is a Battalion (Squadron for Cavalry units). A Tank battalion usually has four companies of tanks, each with 14 tanks. There are usually also two tanks in Headquarters Company, for a total of 58. A Cavalry Squadron that does have tanks (anymore, this is usually just the Armored Cavalry Regiments, the 11th and a couple of NG/USAR units) will have 42 tanks: 9 each in three Cavalry Troops, and 14 more in one Tank Company, plus a tank as the Squadron Commander’s vehicle. This, however, is where it can get complicated. A Tank Battalion might cross-attach one of its Tank Companies to an Infantry Battalion, which then would cross-attach one of its Infantry Companies to the Tank Battalion. Those companies may then become further broken down into Company Teams, to give the Battalion commander a more flexible organization.

A Brigade (Cavalry units use Regiment, instead) usually consists of anywhere from 3–5 Battalions, and will almost always have a mix of Battalions: some Infantry Battalions, some Tank Battalions. When I was on active duty, for example, I was in the 2nd Brigade of the 3d Armored Division, in the 3/8 Cavalry (which was actually a Tank Battalion). In addition to 3/8 Cav, the 2nd Brigade also consisted of the 4/8 Cav (as with 3/8 Cav, a Tank Battalion), and 1/48 Infantry Battalions. Thus, 2nd Brigade at that moment in time had 116 tanks in two Tank Battalions (and I don’t remember, but I believe the BDE CO and his XO also had tanks, so there would have been 118 total tanks in the Brigade). An Armored Cavalry regiment as configured when I was in the 3d ACR during Desert Shield & Desert Storm had 126 tanks, between three ground Cavalry Squadrons (1st, 2nd, and 3d Squadrons)."

So. Assuming no changes, here is the basic breakdown:

Platoon: 4 tanks
Tank Company: 14 tanks
Cavalry Troop in an Armored Cavalry Squadron: 9 tanks
Tank Battalion: 58 tanks
Cavalry Squadron in an Armored Cavalry Regiment: 42 tanks
Tank Brigade: 116 (maybe 118) tanks
Armored Cavalry Regiment: 126 tanks
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The current organization for a U.S. tank company is that it contains 3 tank platoons of 4 tanks each for a total of 12 - plus 2 additional tanks in the company headquarter section. That makes 14 tanks in a tank company. There are 3 tank companies in every tank battalion for a total of 42 tanks - plus 2 additional tanks in the battalion headquarters for a total of 44 tanks. Armor brigades may have from 2 to 3 tank battalions. An armored division normally has 3 but could have 4 brigades which might have as many as 7 or 8 tank battalions altogether in the division.



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"U.S. Army Combat Arms Regimental System" - on wikipedia
one can see various Armour regiments in a below section.


Artillery battery - on wikipedia

Check section "Modern battery organization"

it says - In modern battery organization, the military unit typically has six to eight howitzers or six to nine rocket launchers and 100 to 200 personnel and is the equivalent of a company in terms of organisation level.

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Also, in real world scenario suppose if Russia had gone on war with US or China ever ,

Does anyone think they would have deployed Only "2" T-90 tanks only against other nations in a battlefront.

which is impractical in realism. They would have deployed at least 1 or 3 platoons of T-90 tanks instead.
or even mixed platoons of T90 and T80 and T 72 , but never just 2 T90 in whole battlefront.

Likewise , i think no nation would have deployed it's only 2 Tier 5 modern tanks in a battlefront.

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The WPACT thing which was said of , was just an example.

The actual composition of units within any Army structure , can vary from disimilar unit types to only having similar unit types in a single structure.

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Re: Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Postby urogard » Tue 14 Mar 2017 20:31

DarkKnightz01k wrote:Likewise , i think no nation would have deployed it's only 2 Tier 5 modern tanks in a battlefront.

WG:RD isn't in a time frame where Leo 2A5 is the MBT of the FRG and all older Leo 2's having gotten phased out

So saying any fighting group would have "1 or 3 platoons of T-90 tanks instead." is just as much nonsense because at that point in time represented in the game, there wasn't even 3 platoons of T-90 tanks in existence ...

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Re: Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Postby Seryn » Tue 14 Mar 2017 23:04

DarkKnightz01k wrote:Idiocy.


So you want to make MY Medium tanks (AMX 40, AMX 30B2 Brennus, Leo C2 MEXAS, Leo 2A1, T-72S1, Magach 6 Bet Gal, and Type 74) and MY Light Tanks (like my M8 AGS, AMX 10 RCSB, Type 62, Type 63, BMP-685 and M41A1) pointless just for your little M1A2/Leclerc/T-90 Spam? They are already top Of the line and people frown upon me even CONSIDERING putting some of these examples I made in my Decks, AND YOU WANT TO RUIN IT FURTHER?! Play Entente/USSR/EB/UK If you wanna spam. Or Mod and play single player, don't even think about suggesting things that arent fun for others.

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Re: Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Postby Mike » Wed 15 Mar 2017 00:13

Any adjustments made at the top would have to be followed by adjustments made on down the tank lines.
Image
Courtesy of KattiValk

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Re: Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Postby Seryn » Wed 15 Mar 2017 18:47

Mike wrote:Any adjustments made at the top would have to be followed by adjustments made on down the tank lines.


>9000 5 Point AMX 13 75 Harpons, Let the salt flow

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Re: Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Postby DarkKnightz01k » Thu 16 Mar 2017 08:31

urogard wrote:WG:RD isn't in a time frame where Leo 2A5 is the MBT of the FRG and all older Leo 2's having gotten phased out

, because at that point in time represented in the game, there wasn't even 3 platoons of T-90 tanks in existence ...



Yes, if Wargame RedDragon is just about strictly "Cold War Era, and not after that, after 1990s or 2000s" , then that makes sense why modern units are just kept as Prototype and not in some production numbers.


Seryn wrote:
So you want to make MY Medium tanks (AMX 40, AMX 30B2 Brennus, Leo C2 MEXAS, Leo 2A1, T-72S1, Magach 6 Bet Gal, and Type 74) and MY Light Tanks (like my M8 AGS, AMX 10 RCSB, Type 62, Type 63, BMP-685 and M41A1) pointless just for your little M1A2/Leclerc/T-90 Spam? They are already top Of the line and people frown upon me even CONSIDERING putting some of these examples I made in my Decks, AND YOU WANT TO RUIN IT FURTHER?! Play Entente/USSR/EB/UK If you wanna spam. Or Mod and play single player, don't even think about suggesting things that arent fun for others.


That was not Idiocy. Those were just somethings i found over internet only.

But @Seryn since you also got a point, it would make any Cold War Era Medium , Light tanks completely Useless.

I agree and rethink now , May be you got point there. and Yeah, if anyone can get to have Modern tanks which would be too powerful
to destroy med and light tanks , why would he even bother to play with those older unit tanks ,

Okay, i get it now, may be it could take fun out of game for people who prefer gameplay with those Med and light units.
and don't wanna have fun play with modern units. if fun for some would not be to play with some modern unit.

i think sometimes if i wanna play with just modern units , singleplayer with lil modding is just fine, to have battle between modern
tanks.

i was kind of thinking like more on the lines of "Act of Agression: Reboot edition" which has modern units M1A2 and Armata.

and the point that Med or light units will get ignored and thus be useless in game , didn't thought from that perspective.

Hey, May be Wargame could still make some new game Title, dedicated to After Cold war Era, which only having modern units.
for those people who like battle between modern units, kind of like battlefield 3 which just only features battle with modern world weapons n units..

OR May be Some options like in Map giving options like "Battle scenario" - 1. before Cold war, 2. Cold War , 3.after Cold War
choose your Era you want to play in game.

Or even Create Decks options for after Cold War only.
But then How the number of modern tanks will increase for that gameplay type
will be of question. just like it now unlocks more slots for some particular deck type.
i wonder/don't know if number of units can increase upon matching the conditions thus,
like this deck is for after Cold War Era, so only allow recruitments in that Era and hide recruitments of older units greying them out.

Still Nevermind, may be i just like modern units too much. Everyone has their own likings.
and was thinking How would it be to see T90s against M1A2s , or Challenge 2s against Leopard 2A5s.
you know only kind of Multiplayer Modern warfare, RTS version of battlefield 3 or 4 perhaps.

But it's always good to hear and know other people's different perspectives.

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Re: Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Postby Seryn » Thu 16 Mar 2017 16:56

DarkKnightz01k wrote:
Intriguing.


I will be honest, I love Modern Units as much as the next guy, but the sheer power they provide (I was in a Match as Yugo, and ate 5 M1IPs without my M-91A taking a single point of damage) Would make it ridiculous for their numbers to be expanded upon, believe me, I want to see more of my Favorite units (Leclerc, Mir 2000, F-4 KWS, Marder 2 Panzergrens 90, Tiger Gunships, Maglans, Pereh, Kaartinjaakari, BOV Raketas and Yugo Malyutka 2 Slinging Recon IFV) but they are just too powerful if their numbers increase.

My apologies if I appeared a bit of an ass, I was having trouble keeping a ship in FtD from BLOWING ITSELF UP at the time, very frustrating.

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Re: Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Postby ToTheMetal » Sat 18 Mar 2017 18:22

The only availability adjustment superheavies need is their complete removal.
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Re: Increase, 2 Maximum packs and Max units for Prototype Tanks units especially ?

Postby DarkKnightz01k » Mon 20 Mar 2017 02:32

@Seryn if i may not be wrong in thinking.What do you think about ? -

Artillery


like for M110 , M110A2, Paladin, Caesar , Msta, AuF1, Bkan, etc..
the one with 21000, 24000 or more in range. (mid to long range ones)

Should n't there number be increased to 4 units per card. while Just keeping 1 Max pack.

cuz if 2 Max Packs shall be there , then perhaps No one will ever look to buy 17,000 range artillery.

Right now they are 2 or 3 which is , too less as per artillery battery.

OR are they also too powerful ?

As 4 units can provide just sufficient long range support.

Having just sufficient artillery may also free a slot which can then may be used for Anti-Air.
rather having 2 cards of artillery sometimes.


Planes

@urogard pointed out planes number to be less earlier in thread.

i think for some non prototype units 3 trained and 2 hardened should be there.

like for F15 Air -to-Air i found only 3 rookie, which is bad in terms of Air Superiority fighters.
i mean Air Superirity fighters should not be rookie.
like for Su-27 , ground attack with TV guided missiles there is just 1 unit which should have be atleast 2 hardened or 3 trained.
like for A10-Thunderbolds there should be 2 hardened or 3 trained.

in planes i think there is just a bit of imbalance in distribution.

Activation points for Nations Decks which are right now 60 for "General Decks" , which i think may be slightly increased to 65,

that shall lead to recruit just 2 more units of infantry, thus making use all 5 slots for hiring adequate infantry in General decks.

and 45 Activatin points for BLUFOR/REDFOR may be slightly increased by 5 to make it 50, to hire same 2 infantry cards.

Chinook Transport - it would have been real nice if Chinooks/SuperChinook Transport could Load, carry and Unload
Tanks/APC/IFV.

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