Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

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FrangibleCover
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 15 Mar 2017 16:59

Seryn wrote:You Misunderstand, the REDFOR Guns and Adens and Mausers and Giats and Defas suck not because of their stats, but because they lack the Dakka Dakka, I ran a Test with an Orao dogfighting a BAC Strikemaster, the Strikemaster won due to th Dakka Dakka.

Yes, that's how it works in game right now, but does that sound right to you? Should machine guns really beat cannons?

I ran similar tests comparing the Equalizer (Harrier II, AIMs turned off) vs a SU-25, the Harrier shaved half the health off the SU-25 in the Head-on. It would be an instant kill if I included AIMs.

That sounds alright to me so long as the Harrier lost half of its health to the Su-25.

A-10 and Vulcan are the ways they are not because of some "HATO Bias", But because REDFOR really could care less about guns, The Vulcan and the GAU-8 are really that good.

Just what.

Initial burst mass don't real, radar-directed gated fire control don't real, 20mm>23mm>30mm, BK-27 wholly replacing M61 in German service was a deliberate downgrade, muh BRRRRRT, remember that time when the USSR removed guns from the MiG-23 and then got BTFO by 'worse' NATO fighters in Vietnam?

I don't think it's a bias thing, Eugen just have a stiffy for theoretical maximum rate of fire over nearly all other traits. That's kind of been sorted out for machine guns now but air cannons definitely need a standardisation pass. Honestly, I'd probably bring the other guns in the game up towards the Vulcan standard more than I nerfed the Vulcan, it's a nice balancing factor between high and low end ASFs that get nearly the same guns and the lethality of the Vulcan makes it helpful against helicopters on cheap aircraft, which is a buff that could do with being spread around.
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Partibrejker » Wed 15 Mar 2017 17:05

Seryn wrote:
You Misunderstand, the REDFOR Guns and Adens and Mausers and Giats and Defas suck not because of their stats, but because they lack the Dakka Dakka, I ran a Test with an Orao dogfighting a BAC Strikemaster, the Strikemaster won due to th Dakka Dakka. I ran similar tests comparing the Equalizer (Harrier II, AIMs turned off) vs a SU-25, the Harrier shaved half the health off the SU-25 in the Head-on. It would be an instant kill if I included AIMs. A-10 and Vulcan are the ways they are not because of some "HATO Bias", But because REDFOR really could care less about guns, The Vulcan and the GAU-8 are really that good.


dude, that all stands, but if you compare RL numbers to how they translate to the game, you would fall on your head. Besides that can you care to explain " But because REDFOR really could care less about guns,", I do not get it.

Adarius wrote:

I will keep my pet peeves out of this to stay on topic. But in at least some cases I think they can get away with claiming that the weapons load and/or engine versions justify it.


well in that case, I can just say: it has a 10% bigger ecm because it is only Finnish rock and roll dogfighter and you get only one that makes sense :)
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Adarius » Wed 15 Mar 2017 17:08

Partibrejker wrote:well in that case, I can just say: it has a 10% bigger ecm because it is only Finnish rock and roll dogfighter and you get only one that makes sense :)


I guess "we only get one plane" is the same reasoning as why the Finns decided to get the AN/ALQ-165 in the first place :P.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 15 Mar 2017 17:30

FrangibleCover wrote:I don't think it's a bias thing, Eugen just have a stiffy for theoretical maximum rate of fire over nearly all other traits. That's kind of been sorted out for machine guns now but air cannons definitely need a standardisation pass.

Ages ago information on aircraft cannons would collected in the Marshals section back when it was actually being utilized. Here's a tidbit of it.

Spoiler : Cannon info. MUCH DATA. WOW. :
TheFluff wrote:J 35D Draken
Gun name: Twin ADEN (or "Twin akan m/55" if you prefer the Swedish designation)
Caliber: 30x113 mm
Rate of fire: 2 x "1200-1700" RPM (don't have a better number than that)
Ammo capacity: 100 rounds per gun, so 200 rounds
Volume of fire: 8.8 - 12.46 kg/sec
Range: 2100 m (low muzzle velocity and bad ballistics, 60's aiming system)
Accuracy: 20-30% (see above)


J 35F Draken and J 35J Draken
Gun name: ADEN (or "akan m/55" if you prefer the Swedish designation)
Identical to the above except it's one single gun instead of a pair of two like on J 35D.


JA 37 Viggen
Gun name: Oerlikon KCA (or "akan m/75" if you prefer the Swedish designation)
Caliber: 30x173 mm
Rate of fire: 1350 RPM
Ammo capacity: 120 rounds
Volume of fire: 8.1 kg/s
Range: 2800 m (very powerful gun with very high muzzle velocity, aiming can be semi-automated by the autopilot/radar)
Accuracy: 40-50% (early JA 37's did not yet have the automated aiming software)

Guggy wrote:Main workhorse is the M61A1 Vulcan. Good gun, but limited by questionable long-range ballistics. High RoF and good FCS on most later platforms keeps it a capable and sufficent gun, still very capable of dealing with any aircraft it meets in a fight.

F-15A
Gun Name : M61A1 Vulcan
Caliber : 20x102mm
Rate of fire : 6000 RpM
Volume of fire : about 10 kg/s
Range : 2450m (recent aiming system but small caliber)
Accuracy : 50% (Full radar suite. Compensates for target movement, give em a lil burst and remove his wing. The standard for later fighters)

F-16A
Gun Name : M61A1 Vulcan
Caliber : 20x102mm
Rate of fire : 6000 RpM
Volume of fire : about 10 kg/s
Range : 2450m (recent aiming system but small caliber)
Accuracy : 40% (Didnt even have a radar, so no radar-gunsight for the early Falcon I think?)

F-16C
Gun Name : M61A1 Vulcan
Caliber : 20x102mm
Rate of fire : 6000 RpM
Volume of fire : about 10 kg/s
Range : 2450m (Good overall FCS, aiming system etc.)
Accuracy : 50% (Radar-ranging gunsight etc. Pretty new aircraft in comparrison)

F/A-18A
Gun Name : M61A1 Vulcan
Caliber : 20x102mm
Rate of fire : 6000 RpM
Volume of fire : about 10 kg/s
Range : 2450m (recent aiming system but small caliber)
Accuracy : 50% (Radar-ranging gunsight, FCS etc. Seems to be a theme developing here...)

F/A-18C
Gun Name : M61A1 Vulcan
Caliber : 20x102mm
Rate of fire : 6000 RpM
Volume of fire : about 10 kg/s
Range : 2450m (recent aiming system but small caliber)
Accuracy : 50% (As above)

F-15E Strike Eagle
Gun Name : M61A1 Vulcan
Caliber : 20x102mm
Rate of fire : 6000 RpM
Volume of fire : about 10 kg/s
Range : 2450m (recent aiming system but small caliber)
Accuracy : 50% (As above)

Skyhawk (both variants in US service)
Gun Name: Colt Mk12x2
Caliber: 20x110 USN
Rate of Fire: 1000 RPMx2
Volume of Fire: Not sure? Somewhere in the area of 6.6 kg/s? Or 12.2? Fucking grains... how do they work?
Range: Range : 2100m (old aiming system and small caliber)
Accuracy : 20% (old aiming system. Korean war-era maybe, even?)

AV-8A Harrier
Gun Name: ADEN 30x2
Caliber: 30×113mm
Rate of Fire: 1200 RPMx2
Volume of Fire:
Range: Range : 2100m (caliber is good sure, but not so much for accuracy/fire control. Sort of opposite of M61A1 in that regard)
Accuracy : 30% (older aiming system)

AV-8C Harrier
Gun Name: ADEN 30x2
Caliber: 30×113mm
Rate of Fire: 1200 RPMx2
Volume of Fire:
Range: Range : 2100m (caliber is good sure, but not so much for accuracy/fire control.)
Accuracy : 30% (older aiming system)

AV-8B Harrier (Harrier II)

Gun Name: GAU-12 Equalizer
Caliber: 25 x 137 mm
Rate of Fire: 4200 RPM
Volume of Fire:
Range: Range : 2800m (Good caliber, high RoF. Max range nearly 4km IRL. May be a bit too generous though ingame, so 2450 perhaps?)
Accuracy : 40% (Pod mounted gun, mainly for ground attack but can work as AA if needed.)

Alot of this may be wrong (weight of fire in particular. Who the fuck uses grains as a unit of measure anyways?) but stuff like RPM, caliber, and by extension Range and Accuracy should be reasonably close to right

Xeno426 wrote:Some Russian cannons.

NR-23/Type 23-1
Caliber: 23x115mm
ROF: 800 RPM
Projectile Mass: 175g (HEI-T) 200g (API)
Muzzle Velocity: 690 m/s (HEI-T) 610 m/s (API)
Volume of Fire: 2.33 kg/s (HEI-T) 2.67 kg/s (API)
Notes: Older gun, only really found on the MiG-17 and some MiG-19 versions (and their Chinese counterparts as the Type 23-1), so generally have very poor FCS.

NR-30/Type 30-1
Caliber: 30x155Bmm
ROF: 850-1000 RPM
Projectile Mass: 400g (HEI, 48.5g exp) or 401g (APHE)
Muzzle Velocity: 780 m/s
Volume of Fire: 5.67-6.67 kg/s (HEI) 5.68-6.68 kg/s (APHE)
Notes: Another old gun, found on MiG-19S, early MiG-21 versions, Su-7 and Su-17 families.

N-37/Type 37
Caliber: 37x155mm
ROF: 400-450 RPM
Projectile Mass: 729g (HEI, 49g explosive) 734g (APHE, 36.1g exp)
Muzzle Velocity: 670 m/s (all types)
Volume of Fire: 8.14 kg/s (HEI) 8.2 kg/s (APHE)
Notes: Used in the MiG-17 family. Designed to take out bombers in a single hit.

AM-23/Type 23-2
Caliber: 23x115mm
ROF: 1200-1300 RPM
Projectile Mass: 184g (HEI) 182g (APHE, 4.7g exp)
Muzzle Velocity: 700 m/s (HEI) 720 m/s (APHE, 4.7g exp)
Volume of Fire: 3.68-3.99 kg/s (HEI) 3.64-3.94 kg/s (APHE)
Notes: Normally found in the tail guns of bombers, it's notable because the Chinese copy, the Type 23-2, is used in the Q-5.

GSh-23L/Type 23-III
Caliber: 23x115mm
ROF: 2500-3400 RPM
Projectile Mass: 184g (HEI) 182g (APHE, 4.7g exp)
Muzzle Velocity: 700 m/s (HEI) 720 m/s (APHE, 4.7g exp)
Volume of Fire: 7.67-10.4 kg/s (HEI) 7.58-10.3 kg/s (APHE)
Notes: Used in later MiG-21 and all MiG-23 aircraft. All but later MiG-23 used advanced gunsight systems. Newer rounds have a muzzle velocity around 720 m/s.

GSh-6-23
Caliber: 23x115mm
ROF: 9000-10000 RPM
Projectile Mass: 184g (HEI, 18g exp) 182g (APHE, 4.7g exp)
Muzzle Velocity: 700 m/s (HEI) 720 m/s (APHE, 4.7g exp)
Volume of Fire: 27.6-30.7 kg/s (HEI) 27.3-30.3 kg/s (APHE)
Notes: Used on the Su-24 and MiG-31 (not MiG-31M). Newer rounds have a muzzle velocity around 720 m/s.

GSh-301
Caliber: 30x165mm
ROF: 1500-1800 RPM
Projectile Mass: 390g (HEI, 48.5g exp)
Muzzle Velocity: 890 m/s
Volume of Fire: 9.75-11.7 kg/s
Notes: Current modern fighter cannon for USSR/Russia.

GSh-2-30
Caliber: 30x165mm
ROF: 3000 RPM
Projectile Mass: 403g (AP-T) 390 (APHE, 14.6g exp)
Muzzle Velocity: 880 m/s (AP-T) 890 m/s (APHE)
Volume of Fire: 20.2 kg/s (AP-T) 19.5 kg/s (APHE)
Notes: Used by Su-25 and Il-102. Rudimentary FCS on Su-25 and Il-102, but features a proper gun funnel on the Su-25T, though all lack the ability to lock on to aerial targets.

GSh-6-30
Caliber: 30x165mm
ROF: 4000 RPM (6000 max, but limited to 4000 to reduce airframe wear)
Projectile Mass: 403g (AP-T) 390 (APHE, 14.6g exp)
Muzzle Velocity: 880 m/s (AP-T) 890 m/s (APHE)
Volume of Fire: 26.9 kg/s (AP-T) 26 kg/s (APHE) Increases to 40.3 and 39 kg/s at 6000 RPM
Notes: Used in the MiG-27 family only. Primarily a ground attack cannon.

[EDIT]
Added another gun (AM-23/Type 23-2) and the Chinese designations of a few more guns.

[EDIT2]
Fixed the Chinese NR-30 name to be "Type 30-1" instead of "Type 1"

solvens wrote:French guns stats :
DEFA 552 - 1200 RpM, muzzle velocity 815 m/s, projectile mass 236g
Successive improvements (most changes solved reliabililty or weight issues) :
DEFA 552A - projectile mass increased to 245g
DEFA 553 - muzzle velocity increased to 820 m/s
DEFA 554 - RpM increased to 1800 RpM

GIAT M791 - 2500 RpM, muzzle velocity 1025 m/s, projectile mass unknown (I can only find the explosive mass).

French army designations :
DEFA 552 : 30-550 F2
DEFA 552A : 30-550 F2A
DEFA 553 : 30-550 F3
DEFA 554 : 30-550 F4
GIAT M791 : 30-791 F1


I tried mainly to keep coherent steps between the different french planes :

Mirage III C
Gun Name : DEFA 552
Caliber : 30x113mm
Rate of fire : 1200 RpM
Volume of fire : 9,4 Kg/sec
Range : 2450
Accuracy : 20%
Old aiming system linked with radar, caliber favorising range over ballistics.
Ammo : ~250 rds (each DEFA can carry approx. 125 rounds, though there is a 2-3 difference in ammo count depending on the plane ; IIRC the SEM carries 248 shells, etc...)

Mirage III E
Gun Name : DEFA 552A
Caliber : 30x113mm
Rate of fire : 2x1200 RpM
Volume of fire : 9,8 Kg/sec
Range : 2450m
Accuracy : 20%
Ammo : ~250 rds

Etendard IV
Gun Name : DEFA 552
Caliber : 30x113mm
Rate of fire : 2x1200 RpM
Volume of fire : 9,4 Kg/sec
Range : 2450
Accuracy : 20%
Ammo : ~250 rds
Comparable to Mirage III C

Super Etendard
Gun Name : twin DEFA 552A
Caliber : 30x113mm
Rate of fire : 2x1200 RpM
Volume of fire : 9,8 Kg/sec
Range : 2450m
Accuracy : 40%
Ammo : ~250 rds

Super Etendard SEM
Gun Name : twin DEFA 552A
Caliber : 30x113mm
Rate of fire : 2x1200 RpM
Volume of fire : 9,8 Kg/sec
Range : -
Accuracy : -
Ammo : ~250 rds
No improvement over the regular Super Etendard, I think (Plus AS30L makes that irrelevant).

Alpha Jet E (I have a dream)
Gun Name : DEFA 553
Caliber : 30x113mm
Rate of fire : 1200 RpM
Volume of fire : 4,9 Kg/sec
Range : 2100m (2450? It has almost no aiming system)
Accuracy : 20%
Ammo : 150 rds

Jaguar A
Gun Name : twin DEFA 553
Caliber : 30x113mm
Rate of fire : 2x1200 RpM
Volume of fire : 9,8 Kg/sec
Range : 2450m
Accuracy : 30% (35 if possible, it's somewhere between the F1 C and the F1 CT)
Ammo : ~250 rds

Mirage F1 C
Gun Name : twin DEFA 553
Caliber : 30x113mm
Rate of fire : 2x1200 RpM
Volume of fire : 9,8 Kg/sec (high)
Range : 2450m
Accuracy : 30%
Ammo : ~250 rds

Mirage F1 CT
Gun Name : DEFA 553
Caliber : 30x113mm
Rate of fire : 1x1200 RpM
Volume of fire : 4,9 Kg/sec
Range : 2450m
Accuracy : 40%
Ammo : ~250 rds
(French airforce : CAS variants with better aa guns than the dedicated fighters)

Mirage 2000
Gun Name : twin DEFA 554
Caliber : 30x113mm
Rate of fire : 2x1800 RpM
Volume of fire : 14,7 Kg/sec
Range : 2800
Accuracy : 40% (I would give it 50%, but if it has to be inferior to the Rafale, so be it)
Ammo : ~250 rds

Rafale
Gun Name : GIAT M791
Caliber : 30x150mm
Rate of fire : 2500 RpM
Volume of fire : ?
Range : 2800
Accuracy : 50%
Ammo : 135 rds

edit 1 : Fixed an error concerning case length
edit 2 : Added official gun designations

Brutoni wrote:Some cannons used by the UK

Mauser BK-27
Shell :27x145 mm
Rate of Fire: 1,000-1,700 rpm
Muzzle velocity: 1,100 m/s
Projectile Mass: 260 g
Volume of fire: 4.33-7.37 kg/s
Platforms equipped on: Tornado ADV family, Typhoon with improved ammunition feed.

Twin BK-27
Shell :27x145 mm
Rate of Fire: 2,000-3,400 rpm
Muzzle velocity: 1,100 m/s
Projectile Mass: 260 g
Volume of fire: 8.66-14.73 kg/s
Platforms equipped on: Tornado GR series.


ADEN 30
Caliber: 30 mm × 113 mm
Rate of fire: 1200 and 1400 rpm
Muzzle velocity: 741 m/s (2,430 ft/s)
Projectile weight: 220 g (7.76 oz)
Volume of fire: 4.4-5.13 kg/s
Platforms equipped on: N/A


Twin ADEN 30
Caliber: 30 mm × 113 mm
Rate of fire: 2400 and 2800 rpm
Muzzle velocity: 741 m/s (2,430 ft/s)
Projectile weight: 220 g (7.76 oz)
Volume of fire: 8.8-10.27 kg/s
Platforms Equipped on: Found on Harrier family (GR.1, GR.3, FRS.1, FRS.2, FA.2) and UK Jaguar.

I don't think the ADEN 25 should be represented personally. Was a total flop of a project.

Xeno426 wrote:And it would be totally irrelevant if the GR.5 is turned into the FRS.2 anyway.

M39
Caliber: 20x102mm
ROF: 1500 rpm (+-25)
Projectile Mass: 101 g
Muzzle Velocity: 1030 m/s
Volume of Fire: 2.53 kg/s
Notes: Used in F-86H Saber

M39A2
Caliber: 20x102mm
ROF: 1500 rpm (±25)
Projectile Mass: 101 g
Muzzle Velocity: 1030 m/s
Volume of Fire: 2.53 kg/s
Notes: Used in F-5 family, though the F-5E has a more sophisticated FCS to go with it compared to the F-5A.

Mk 12
Caliber: 20x110mm USN (US Navy used a larger round)
ROF: 1000 rpm
Projectile Mass: 110 g
Muzzle Velocity: 1010 m/s
Volume of Fire: 1.83 kg/s
Notes: Used in the A-4 and F-8 aircraft. F-8 had better FCS, being armed with a radar and designed for dogfighting.

LBJ wrote:6 x AN/M3
Shell :12.7 x 99 mm
Rate of Fire: 6 x 1,200 rpm
Muzzle velocity: 900 m/s
Projectile Mass: 40~46 g
Volume of fire: 0.8-0.92 kg/s x 6
Platforms equipped on: ROK F-86F Sabre, JPN F-86F Kyokko

Xeno426 wrote:A note on the M61A1 cannon.

The M61A1 takes 0.4 seconds to spin up, and after 0.5 seconds will only have shot 18 rounds. After a full second a total of 68 rounds will have been fired. Since shooting for more than one second against an air target pretty much never happens, I think these values should be taken into consideration.

M61A1 at 0.5 seconds:
1.82 kg
M61A1 at 1 second: 6.87 kg

Russian gattling cannons do not have this issue because they are gas driven. The M61A2 is lighter and spins up in only 0.25 seconds, but that's only found on the F-22. The GAU-12 on the AV-8B also has a 0.4 second spin-up time.

Found out the A-37 Dragonfly had a single GAU-2B/A on the starboard side.

GAU-2B/A
Caliber: 7.62x51mm
ROF: 3000 rpm
Projectile Mass: 9.8 g
Muzzle Velocity: 853 m/s
Volume of Fire: 0.49 kg/s
Notes: Used in A-37 Dragonfly with 1500 rounds. The gun is the same used in the Blackhawk, though "M134" is an army designation.

GAU-8/A
Caliber: 30x173mm
ROF: 3900 RPM, 4200 RPM (removed in 80's). However, only 16 rounds in 0.5 seconds, 50 rounds in first second, and 70 rounds in every subsequent second.
Projectile Mass: 360g (HEI, 54g explosive) 395g (API)
Muzzle Velocity: 1080 m/s (HEI) 1070 m/s (API)
Volume of Fire: 43.2 kg (HEI, 2 seconds) 18 kg (HEI, 1 second) 5.76 kg (HEI, 0.5 seconds), 47.45 kg (API, 2 seconds) 19.8 kg (API, 1 second) 6.32 kg (API, 0.5 seconds)
Notes: The GAU-8/A has a unique capability where, after the trigger is pulled, the aircraft's autopilot keeps the aircraft on a steady, straight course and automatically adjusts engine output. This makes the cannon incredibly accurate when attacking ground targets, in the realm of 5-8 milliradians. This is a rather important capability, since it's what makes the A-10/GAU-8 combination so deadly. I'd say 50-60% accuracy against ground targets.
Here's a nice graph showing off the total number of rounds fired, assuming the acceleration for the rounds per second is linear.

Xeno426 wrote:Here's a handy list of Russian cannons with their Chinese names, along with the aircraft that used them.

  • NR-23/Type 23-1: Used in the J-5 family. J-5 has two cannons, J-5A had three.
  • N-37/Type 37: Used in the J-5 only. The J-5A replaced it with another Type 23-1 with 100 rounds.
  • AM-23/Type 23-2: Pairs used by Q-5 family. Also used in H-5.
  • NR-30/Type 30-1: Pair used by all J-7 series except the J-7C and J-7D (J-7E and J-7F used a single cannon, but they are slightly OOTF). Two or three used by most J-6 versions (except J-6B, which had no cannons).
  • GSh-23L/Type 23-III: Used by the J-8 family, JH-7 and the J-7C and J-7D.
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CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 15 Mar 2017 17:57

Xeno426 wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:I don't think it's a bias thing, Eugen just have a stiffy for theoretical maximum rate of fire over nearly all other traits. That's kind of been sorted out for machine guns now but air cannons definitely need a standardisation pass.

Ages ago information on aircraft cannons would collected in the Marshals section back when it was actually being utilized. Here's a tidbit of it.

Superb, as usual. If the Big Final Patch comes for Red Dragon, I'd hope that this is in it.
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Mike » Wed 15 Mar 2017 18:04

Adarius wrote:
Mike wrote:
Adarius wrote:Which is caused by the fact that Finland purchased their F-18C equipped with the AN/ALQ-165 self-protection system. the Super Hornet is trapped in the Naval tab when it could be a proper ASF with AMRAAMs and AIM-9Rs. The US Navy had previously cancelled their procurement of the system and only later bought a small number of them. From a game perspective Finland lucked out with the timing of their purchase and the mechanics of the game as this now give them 10 % extra in ECM while the EW aircrafts that would support a US Navy F/A-18C aircraft are not represented in the game as they fly somewhere off the map.


Fixed.


The commonality between F/A-18C/D and F/A-18E/F is impressive, but I do not think the F/A-18E/F is relevant to the topic of this thread which is about C version.


To the topic? No, not really. To what you said? Much more so.
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 15 Mar 2017 18:27

FrangibleCover wrote:Superb, as usual. If the Big Final Patch comes for Red Dragon, I'd hope that this is in it.

Don't count on it. This was collected back in March of 2014.
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CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Seryn » Wed 15 Mar 2017 18:44

Xeno426 wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Superb, as usual. If the Big Final Patch comes for Red Dragon, I'd hope that this is in it.

Don't count on it. This was collected back in March of 2014.


The info was enough to cover my behind.

Kiss me.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 15 Mar 2017 21:05

Xeno426 wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Superb, as usual. If the Big Final Patch comes for Red Dragon, I'd hope that this is in it.

Don't count on it. This was collected back in March of 2014.

Hope is one of those things.
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Adarius » Wed 15 Mar 2017 22:34

Mike wrote:To the topic? No, not really. To what you said? Much more so.


My statement was specifically about F/A-18C versus Finnish F-18C and their ECM equipment. The F/A-18E/F was developed later and a completely different can of worms as it entered service in another millenium and was mostly equipped with even better ECM equipment.

Xeno426 wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Superb, as usual. If the Big Final Patch comes for Red Dragon, I'd hope that this is in it.

Don't count on it. This was collected back in March of 2014.

I am jealous about having access to such lists and even got tempted to order the Automatkanon M/55 manual from a historical library to check the RPM in different configurations, I am a bit of a nerd :P.

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