Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Pleb Squasher
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Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Postby Pleb Squasher » Sun 19 Mar 2017 09:54

AP cluster bombs are pretty decent AT weapons on paper, however their actual viability is really hurt by the simple fact that almost all vehicles in game can easily dodge them if the player issues a move command, when they realise what's being targeted by the bomber, which isn't very difficult to judge. Typically for cluster bombs to be useful, you rely on the other player having sub-par micro/awareness or you are forced to guess where they'll move to avoid the bombs, very unreliable.

Cluster bombers should be just as viable as anti tank missiles, it wouldn't hurt to decrease their fall time to make their effects more difficult to avoid.

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Re: Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Postby urogard » Sun 19 Mar 2017 11:41

cluster bombs also need to get their AP increased because most cluster bombers can't kill heavy tanks even with a perfect hit

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jonas165
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Re: Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Postby jonas165 » Sun 19 Mar 2017 16:13

I recently had a situation were a cluster bomb 'targeted' a vehicle. I let the plane attack the vehicle and not a position, so after the bomb was dropped, the usual dropping animation occurred, but the explosion was at the place at which the vehicle was, even though it had moved quite a bit away form where the bombs were dropped. Can anyone confirm this?
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Re: Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Postby Amarht » Sun 19 Mar 2017 16:51

^

If you manually target something with dumb/cluster bombs instead of fire pos. It sometimes makes atleast one bomb magically appear where the target is. Try "baiting" an AI aircraft with something fast on a road. The AI always use the attack command and you'll notice that even if you have a wheeled vehichle going 500m away after the bomb has been dropped. it'll still look like it hit the location it originally targeted. But when the bomb goes of, it magically does it on top of your vehichle.

Realised it when i was trying to lure the AI's planes out in the 2kw campaign with erc 90 sagiaes in Quingdao and i got obliterated by 1000kg bombs even though i fast moved to a place i'm 99% sure they couldnt even spot me on and that was atleast 500+m away. Tested it with a friend after and appareantly attacking a target manually reproduces that glitch quite often, especially on inf jumping buildings.

Works with napalm aswell

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Re: Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Postby urogard » Sun 19 Mar 2017 17:36

Amarht wrote:If you manually target something with dumb/cluster bombs instead of fire pos. It sometimes makes atleast one bomb magically appear where the target is. Try "baiting" an AI aircraft with something fast on a road. The AI always use the attack command and you'll notice that even if you have a wheeled vehichle going 500m away after the bomb has been dropped. it'll still look like it hit the location it originally targeted. But when the bomb goes of, it magically does it on top of your vehichle

The manually target is what is commonly called a "simple right click and wait" and "sometimes" is what is referred to as the accuracy stat of the bomb in the stat card.

Works with regular bombs as well afaik

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Re: Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Postby Pleb Squasher » Mon 20 Mar 2017 08:32

urogard wrote:
Amarht wrote:If you manually target something with dumb/cluster bombs instead of fire pos. It sometimes makes atleast one bomb magically appear where the target is. Try "baiting" an AI aircraft with something fast on a road. The AI always use the attack command and you'll notice that even if you have a wheeled vehichle going 500m away after the bomb has been dropped. it'll still look like it hit the location it originally targeted. But when the bomb goes of, it magically does it on top of your vehichle

The manually target is what is commonly called a "simple right click and wait" and "sometimes" is what is referred to as the accuracy stat of the bomb in the stat card.

Works with regular bombs as well afaik


This is a little off topic, even so attack command with bombers is super unreliable, often the bombs simply won't drop and the aircraft makes a very awkward and dangerous fly over.

The topic is whether or not cluster bombs should have their falling speed increased.

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Re: Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Postby molnibalage » Mon 20 Mar 2017 17:51

Any why only for cluster...? It it isnase that vehicle speed on road and bomb speed are in the same scale. It is simply impossbile to aim on moving units...

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Re: Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Postby RoadkillRodger » Tue 21 Mar 2017 07:31

It would definitely help make the units themselves a lot more viable, although I think that giving clusters at least a nominal HE value would make them more appealing. You'd need to drop clusters really, really fast to make them competitive with atgms.

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chykka
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Re: Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Postby chykka » Tue 21 Mar 2017 07:33

You could increase the AoE for Cluster munitions, however that may actually increase it for artillery too which may make Cluster bombers more useful. The best use for cluster bombers which is really situational is hitting vehicles without killing your infantry.

I don't like the idea of them killing tanks in one hit, like a single MiG21 bomber from Soviet. However they are hitting top armour and should at least force it to retreat.
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Re: Increase cluster bomb fall speed

Postby Amarht » Tue 21 Mar 2017 15:23

urogard wrote:
Amarht wrote:If you manually target something with dumb/cluster bombs instead of fire pos. It sometimes makes atleast one bomb magically appear where the target is. Try "baiting" an AI aircraft with something fast on a road. The AI always use the attack command and you'll notice that even if you have a wheeled vehichle going 500m away after the bomb has been dropped. it'll still look like it hit the location it originally targeted. But when the bomb goes of, it magically does it on top of your vehichle

The manually target is what is commonly called a "simple right click and wait" and "sometimes" is what is referred to as the accuracy stat of the bomb in the stat card.

Works with regular bombs as well afaik


Yeah. it's just the behaivour that's odd imo. If you right click it should drop the bombs either where the target was when it dropped if it's stationary. or anticipate where the target is gonna be when the bombs hit assuming same speed and heading if it's moving. Atm they just behave like very inaccurate lgbs if they actually hit and follow the target no matter what it does. Idk if it has to be that way because of how giving something accuracy works. or if it's just an engine limitation/bug that noone cares about since most ppl doesnt use right click att with dumb ordnance.

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