West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Gen3ralAustria
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Re: West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Postby Gen3ralAustria » Thu 21 Sep 2017 19:32

Before this all goes down (what I expect) I'd like to add some things here.

In general, this is an up-hill battle and not like Leuthen, rather like World War One. Nothing will come into Red Dragon anymore, the game is dead after more than three years. And even when a WG 4 is/would be planned (which I doubt), who says W-Germany won't end up the same?
Just to make sure, I blame mostly the coalition system for the state of West Germany.
It is part of three coalitions ingame, the most for one single country. Partners are France (I don't have to say anything there), Denmark (has its flavor but yeah) and the Netherlands (just a stack of copies and a bit flavor). One is superior, one is equal and one is a bit weaker than West Germany. Giving France the fancy stuff in the beginning made the decision, as the coalition would be too overpowered if both countries had gotten their fancy stuff so they added few things to W-Germany and yes, that's it.
Denmark didn't help, neihter did the Dutch.

For myself (I prefer nationals but yeah, can't cut out on coalition) there are a lot of questions to the status of W-Germany ingame. My idea: if something will happen (again which I doubt) then it should be killing the Eurocorps once and for all. Then the way is open for some changes:

Logistics are fine.

Infantry ... can't say too much about that only the prices should go down a bit.

Tanks is a topic for itself. In the Dutch-German Corps you have the choice of two Leopard 2A4 versions, with the Dutch having more AP value and the 2A5 seems weak to me (personal feeling there). The rest, better optics would be a thing for the Leopard 2 series.

Recon really deserves some attention. It won't ruin the game when they'd give W-Germany a weak Leopard 2 (like the 2A2) version with better optics like the Yugoslav M-84 scout version. And a Fuchs with radar, please. Also, the loadout of the PAH-2 could be changed.

Artillery is lacking but not too much. A PzH 2000 or if you really want it an upgraded M109 would help (similar to the Dutch M109A5), it won't ruin the game at all.

Anti-air too needs attention. General question: would an optical Roland (let's say the Roland 2) hurt that much? I don't think so when looking to what's ingame already. Long-range options like a HAWK too would help and they had them.

Vehicles: well, ain't much to complain here. Although, the Wiesels .... Why don't make these transportable by CH-53 helicopters? Yes, all the others then will say "W-Germany got airborne vehicles, I want that too for my BMDs" and whatever. Wouldn't change too much at all, they could now do something without filling them up 2 times BEFORE they reach combat area.

Helicopters: no idea really.

Planes: the F-104 could have been such a cheap bombing option besides the Tornado. While on the subject: Tornado IDS sucks, really. ECR is good but IDS sucks. F-4F KWS can hardly compete in the air battle, and besides the Eurofighter ... I leave that be, made enough noise in this forum already.

All in all, there is potential but it was wasted in the start all along. W-Germany isn't too bad, but it's lacking some things to be really competitive to France, UK etc.
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Re: West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Postby Oktoberfest » Thu 21 Sep 2017 20:14

The Coalition system was a cheap and effective way for Eugen to be able to concentrate on the naval aspect. At the end, we have no naval, because it's unplayable, and half botched decks with RD fillers. West Germany and France at the level of Finland or Yugo would have been a dream....

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Re: West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Postby GARGEAN » Fri 22 Sep 2017 08:03

Sunshine wrote:
GARGEAN wrote:Blah-blah, no source in internet...

Ah yes, you're one of those. I forgot.

Exactly. Never forget that. Especially when not reading all the arguments.

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Re: West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Postby HrcAk47 » Fri 22 Sep 2017 09:26

@GeneralAustria In a mod that I'm making together with a few friends, Germany gets all the things you wanted, that are pre-1991. Recon 2A4, dual mode Roland, Wiesels in CH-53...

But it pays for it with the fact that the best fighter is a Phantom with AIM-9L
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Postby FrangibleCover » Fri 22 Sep 2017 10:27

Thinking on the PzH 2000 and the M109A3GA1 that Germany got instead, the GA1 is pretty crap. Since the Israeli DLC we've had a new class of howitzers with 15 second aim times and the same dispersion as the GA1. I've had a look and the GA1 has a similar-sounding FCS to the Sholef, which allows the GA1 can begin firing within three minutes of stopping, but I can't get stopped-to-firing numbers for much of the other artillery in the game so I can't prove that that's measurably better than base M109Gs.
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Re: West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Postby Mike » Fri 22 Sep 2017 15:10

Didn't the Roland reload faster in ALB?
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Re: West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Postby molnibalage » Fri 22 Sep 2017 15:29

Mike wrote:Didn't the Roland reload faster in ALB?

Nope. I played yesterday ALB and reload was painfully slow also in that.

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Re: West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Postby Vobule » Fri 22 Sep 2017 18:08

HrcAk47 wrote:@GeneralAustria In a mod that I'm making together with a few friends, Germany gets all the things you wanted, that are pre-1991. Recon 2A4, dual mode Roland, Wiesels in CH-53...

But it pays for it with the fact that the best fighter is a Phantom with AIM-9L

You, in my office. Now ! :x

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Re: West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Postby HrcAk47 » Fri 22 Sep 2017 19:29

Vobule wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:@GeneralAustria In a mod that I'm making together with a few friends, Germany gets all the things you wanted, that are pre-1991. Recon 2A4, dual mode Roland, Wiesels in CH-53...

But it pays for it with the fact that the best fighter is a Phantom with AIM-9L

You, in my office. Now ! :x


Yes boss
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: West-Germany (or hoping without hope)

Postby Mike » Sat 23 Sep 2017 19:16

molnibalage wrote:
Mike wrote:Didn't the Roland reload faster in ALB?

Nope. I played yesterday ALB and reload was painfully slow also in that.


I remember my favorite AA piece was the OSA-AKM because it would slaughter plane trains.
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