Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

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Razzmann
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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Razzmann » Mon 11 Sep 2017 15:06

No 105mm gun gets more than 17AP iirc.

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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Oktoberfest » Mon 11 Sep 2017 15:45

Razzmann wrote:No 105mm gun gets more than 17AP iirc.


Except an Israeli one IIRC.
The OFL105F2 is a mid 1990's round, developped shortly after the Gulf War from american DU. So a 1995 intro date is totally compatible for a prototype.

Anyway, the Brennus has 16AP at the moment, which does not correspond to any round fired by the french army on their tanks. Actually, no french tank fires an existing round in the french deck, except the AMX-32, which, if it fires the OFL-120G2, has the correct AP18. Everything else is plain false.
Last edited by Oktoberfest on Mon 11 Sep 2017 15:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby FrangibleCover » Mon 11 Sep 2017 15:49

Before we go charging off on this one again, how sure are we that all BMPs aren't using the modernised 400mm RHAe round? The introduction dates quoted in Wargame are usually bollocks anyway, at least after three games and God alone knows how many patches to the BMP-1.
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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Razzmann » Mon 11 Sep 2017 15:53

Oktoberfest wrote:
Razzmann wrote:No 105mm gun gets more than 17AP iirc.


Except an Israeli one IIRC.
The OFL105F2 is a mid 1990's round, developped shortly after the Gulf War from american DU. So a 1995 intro date is totally compatible for a prototype.

No, Israel also only gets up to 17Ap for 105mm.

I believe back during the Scandi DLC a "rule" for 105mm (and possibly 100mm) guns was implemented:
1981-1985: 15AP
1986-1991: 16AP
1992+: 17AP

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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Oktoberfest » Mon 11 Sep 2017 15:53

FrangibleCover wrote:Before we go charging off on this one again, how sure are we that all BMPs aren't using the modernised 400mm RHAe round? The introduction dates quoted in Wargame are usually bollocks anyway, at least after three games and God alone knows how many patches to the BMP-1.


I agree with you, this needs to be cleared given the dates of the vehicles for each BMP-1. Even though, I don't know why one 400mm penetration HEAT round would warrant 12 AP and the other 400mm pen HEAT round only 9 AP, when both should have 13.

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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Razzmann » Mon 11 Sep 2017 15:55

Give BMP-1s 10AP, slightly reduce accuracy and make the base ones (no ATGM) 10pts again. Great buff for EB and gives it a reason to be played over Entente / Baltic besides LStR.

But alas, we won't get a patch anyways.

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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Oktoberfest » Mon 11 Sep 2017 15:56

Razzmann wrote:
Oktoberfest wrote:
Razzmann wrote:No 105mm gun gets more than 17AP iirc.


Except an Israeli one IIRC.
The OFL105F2 is a mid 1990's round, developped shortly after the Gulf War from american DU. So a 1995 intro date is totally compatible for a prototype.

No, Israel also only gets up to 17Ap for 105mm.

I believe back during the Scandi DLC a "rule" for 105mm (and possibly 100mm) guns was implemented:
1981-1985: 15AP
1986-1991: 16AP
1992+: 17AP


Well, even then the rules were not applied to the french tanks, and I am sure also for other nations.
The only roun deserving 12AP for the french army would be the OCC105F3 with 350mm penetration, and that would be a HEAT round for the low pressure 105mm AMX-10RC gun.

Give BMP-1s 10AP, slightly reduce accuracy and make the base ones (no ATGM) 10pts again. Great buff for EB and gives it a reason to be played over Entente / Baltic besides LStR.

But alas, we won't get a patch anyways.


With the 1969 round, the AP deserved is 10 indeed. For later variants, it would go up to 13, then 15 AP HEAT for the latest latest with 450mm penetration (450/30=15). The idea to nerf the BMP to AP10 and reduce it's price would certainly favor the use of it.

And also, keep hopes up! We might get patches ater all, who knows ?

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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Razzmann » Mon 11 Sep 2017 16:00

Oktoberfest wrote:Well, even then the rules were not applied to the french tanks, and I am sure also for other nations.
The only roun deserving 12AP for the french army would be the OCC105F3 with 350mm penetration, and that would be a HEAT round for the low pressure 105mm AMX-10RC gun.

Welp, looks like I was partially wrong, there was no rule for 1981-1985 guns:
We have decided to grant high-end non-120mm MBT some more AP, based on service date's improved ammunitions, in order to buff minor nations(although a few "majors"' tanks are getting buffed in the process):
- 16 AP for 1985-1991 105/115mm.
- 17 AP for >1991 105/115mm.

viewtopic.php?f=155&t=49863#p742910

Though I'd say it would be a decent idea to give all 105mm guns from that time frame 15AP.

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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Oktoberfest » Mon 11 Sep 2017 16:07

Razzmann wrote:
Oktoberfest wrote:Well, even then the rules were not applied to the french tanks, and I am sure also for other nations.
The only roun deserving 12AP for the french army would be the OCC105F3 with 350mm penetration, and that would be a HEAT round for the low pressure 105mm AMX-10RC gun.

Welp, looks like I was partially wrong, there was no rule for 1981-1985 guns:
We have decided to grant high-end non-120mm MBT some more AP, based on service date's improved ammunitions, in order to buff minor nations(although a few "majors"' tanks are getting buffed in the process):
- 16 AP for 1985-1991 105/115mm.
- 17 AP for >1991 105/115mm.

viewtopic.php?f=155&t=49863#p742910

Though I'd say it would be a decent idea to give all 105mm guns from that time frame 15AP.


I remember that post very well, but the rule was broken immediately afterwards when DLC Nations came. Also, why not give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar (the Emperor, not the Artillery)?
If improved ammunition deserve 18AP for 1995 prototype rounds (the max stretch for units in game except exceptions) and allow to eliminate unneeded protos, I am all for it.

Honestly, I would really like to see a full tank overhaul on their ammunitions in the game, especially for old ALB Nations that never received the actualization treatment. Of course I know for the french ammo, but I think every tank deserves better if they were forgotten earlier.

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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Razzmann » Mon 11 Sep 2017 16:17

Oktoberfest wrote:I remember that post very well, but the rule was broken immediately afterwards when DLC Nations came.

Such as? Which 105mm gun breaks the rule?

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