Need guidance/deck codes for Swedish or Scandinavian decks

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JoonasTo
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Re: Need guidance/deck codes for Swedish or Scandinavian decks

Postby JoonasTo » Mon 30 Jan 2017 04:47

You can play bluefor only matches too, just instead of confrontation, select bluefor in match type.

The damage doesn't work like that sadly, the actual numbers at max range are:
0,38 DPS for FSK
0,24 DPS for Fallskermjeger
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Re: Need guidance/deck codes for Swedish or Scandinavian decks

Postby Sandiford » Wed 1 Feb 2017 05:12

There's a veterancy bonus that stacks on top of the armory stats for elite units, both accuracy and faster morale recovery

hardened: +16% acc, +200% morale recovery, -39% stun time
vet: +24% acc, +250% morale recovery, -60% stun
elite: +32% acc, +300% morale recovery, -80% stun

From experience (I.E. not a hard and fast rule): Elites are best against infantry (for cost). Because of:

+higher damage from primary weapons and MGs
+vet bonuses
+they move faster

But they are:

-more vulnerable to bombs
-have less ammo for AT weapons

While Line infantry are best for anti armor, because:

+AP is the same whatever the training level
+more squads means more shots, this outweighs the accuracy bonuses, e.g twice as many shots = +100% vs +16% for veterancy
+good for defending where speed doesn't matter, and if expecting vehicle rushes

But they are:

-slow
-mediocre against infantry


Miscellaneous stuff:

-The above all depends on what AT weapons are available. If playing brits then fusiliers with LAW80s are great for anti armor., with scandi the ERYXs are best

-Transports available also make a lot of difference

-Fallskermjeger are "light infantry" (mountain/airborne) so they have +5kph levelling the speed difference with FSKs

-Gevaermenn have crap AT weapons but MG3s which is the best anti inf weapon, so they do get paired with 5pt transports and used for anti infantry all the same

-Fallskerms can be upvetted to veteran to match FSKs better, they'd both get 9 availability and the Falls would be 5pts cheaper. At equal vet it's pretty much a trade between +50 firepower or +50 health. In a straight up fight no difference, so Falls may technically be stronger, however extra firepower means being able to kill retreating units quicker and can be nice. Personal preference I think.

-In Bold: Virtually all units can be increased in veterancy one step at the cost of availability. If you ever have more than you need of something then upvetting will get a lot of extra combat power for free.


Adarius wrote:1) How much of a point is there in bringing Gevarmen or even the LHV? Gevarmen got a DPS 2.34 as per above conditions and LHV 0.43. Obviously they are not very good for fighting but both units can be very cheap (15 and 10 activation points) and could perhaps be used as flank guards? For normal games I think Gevarmen are the obvious choice but I am toying with a Scandi Support deck for Tactical games. My focus would be BKan 1C, Otomatic and AMOS but perhaps LHV could be used to act as cheap sentries.


Gevaermenn are fine. crappy AT though so bring something else to support them.

Militia units are just bad, no one uese them except chinese (I think) yubiyei which have smgs making them OK in cities, but even so...

If you're numbers on these are correct then it shows why.

For sentries you could use them if you have the slot spare, but there's also using 5pt APCs, empty trucks, 15 pt recon or something cheap from the VEH tab for that. There's also plenty of mileage in playing a support role using a mixed deck, especially in tactical games.


Adarius wrote:2) What are the best units/tactics to take out enemy artillery? I use a 2S7M Malka in my USSR deck with some surprisingly good effect. It is horribly slow but very useful to take out garrisoned infantry, either to prepare for an attack or as a disruption where I take out exposed units in less important areas to divert my opponents attention (or open up for later attacks from a different angle). You need to kill a lot of units to get the points back but is a constant diversion and the damage output is surprising as it seem to kill ~1 infantry unit (10 HP) per hit even when they are in buildings and should have a 70 % damage reduction.


The short answer is: don't

Artillery can be avoided by staying in covering, pushing forwards to engage then immediately relocating to avoid fire. The artillery will largely miss with a few exceptions based on certain maps or places in certain maps.

If he spends in artillery then you have more ground forces and before long will overwhelm him on the ground at which point the artillery becomes useless.

The other factor is that counter battery activity is attention demanding, it takes your eye off other areas, usually more than it's worth.

If it's a 10v10 or you just really want to, then as I said earlier, cluster MLRS aka M270 is ideal, otherwise howitzers can work


Last Points

-BKAN 1A is good for an older-howitzer, but I still wouldn't swap it for an AMOS, at all. Nor would I use 3 cards for tube artillery. So for support decks only personally.

-Maf had a very good pickup on Double STRV 121s (didn't realise that as don't play scandi that much, nor really wargame these days tbf). I go with that completely.

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Re: Need guidance/deck codes for Swedish or Scandinavian decks

Postby Adarius » Wed 8 Feb 2017 10:57

After testing Mr Mafs deck I am inclined to the sagely advice of JonasToo when he said "If you find preserving your units and resupplying them into full health difficult or too much work, stick with the 15-men variants that have more units per card". The deck felt solid and I can really see how it work for a skilled player and in larger battles. But with my poor microing skills and preference for 1 vs 1 I became overstreched as I need to "shut down" certain areas with passive units to avoid becoming overextended.

Conclusions after repeatedly playing Plunjin valley in 1 vs 1:

  • Kustjägare are fantastic in forested terrain and in larger city blocks. When deploying from Alpha in Plunjin Valley they are perfect for first taking the northern city terrain in Foxtrot (ie left flank) and then make a mess when pushing through the forest towards the enemy deployment zone. When deploying from Echo they do the same thing in Bravo and attack through the forest.
  • Fallskermjegere 90 are lovely in the centre where the 1050 m range of the Eryx fit perfectly.
  • Stormers in Patrias are my mainstay for assaulting city terrain, Fallskermjegere support and Kustjägare are used where forested terrain come close to the built up terrain to minimize the damage taken by them.
  • Bkan 1C is expensive but really useful for putting pressure on my opponents micromanagement as it can remove vital units.
  • AMOS is hard to evaluate as it provides suppression rather than killing things, it does however tend to put the mortars where I want them quickly so I guess it earns it place by smoke and suppression.
  • RBS56 is an important asset for holding terrain but the LVGrp with RBS 70 is being replaced by Dragoner in order to provide cheap screening at 15 pts per unit, I thought Gevarmen also had 5 pts transport but could not find any. If the Dragoner are not up to it I will replace them with Pansarskytte in Strf 9040 and save points on the RBS56.
  • My major weakness is how to deal with enemy helicopters. My favored opponent love to bring in helicopters all over the place and/or target my base with them. So I need to find either a cheap counter to deploy on the flanks/in the rear or find a mobile counter (any suggestions on anti-helo aircraft?). Otomatics are awesome but expensive and I am testing the LVKV 90 right now to defend my deployment zone, stil a tad expensive but good versus both air and ground.
  • Otomatics are just awesome in general. Infantry advancing with the support of Otomatics seem to rip pretty much anything apart in cluttered terrain while providing AA cover.
  • I still got a lot of learning to do with aircraft, they always surprise me by how far they fly into enemy territory after bombing runs and his Gepards wreck me.

JoonasTo wrote:The damage doesn't work like that sadly, the actual numbers at max range are:
0,38 DPS for FSK
0,24 DPS for Fallskermjeger


Is there a way to calculate DPS or do we need to rely on DPS tables based on testing (is there one available somewhere that you know is updated with new patches?)

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Re: Need guidance/deck codes for Swedish or Scandinavian decks

Postby JoonasTo » Fri 10 Feb 2017 01:13

The very last tab in THIS, called NEW MG STATS has also the main weapons.

For base defense against helis, anything with an auto-cannon will do, they shred helis up close.
As for planes, with scandi, your SEAD plane, the Puff, is amazing vs helicopters.
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Re: Need guidance/deck codes for Swedish or Scandinavian decks

Postby Mister Maf » Fri 10 Feb 2017 17:15

JoonasTo wrote:The very last tab in THIS, called NEW MG STATS has also the main weapons.

For base defense against helis, anything with an auto-cannon will do, they shred helis up close.
As for planes, with scandi, your SEAD plane, the Puff, is amazing vs helicopters.

What I'm gathering from this is that, contrary to what everyone has been saying, the MG3 is, in fact, still the best machine gun.
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Re: Need guidance/deck codes for Swedish or Scandinavian decks

Postby Razzmann » Fri 10 Feb 2017 17:41

It is not, test it for yourself. The 10% extra accuracy on the Minimi make the big difference.

Also partially the reason why the Kk is so good.

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Re: Need guidance/deck codes for Swedish or Scandinavian decks

Postby JoonasTo » Sat 11 Feb 2017 00:59

Naah, Minimi is better.

And because of the suppression nerf of BRs a lot of the 30% accuracy MGs for line infantry are better than MG3(like KvKK, for example.)
At higher ranks the extra accuracy isn't that meaningful anymore and MG3 is again better than everything else than the Minimi(and clones).
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