Stealth Kodiak WTF

Opticalx
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Re: Stealth Kodiak WTF

Postby Opticalx » Sat 23 Apr 2016 20:05

I would seriously love to see someone pull this off against a decent player in 1vs1! It would not happen!
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AndreB
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Re: Stealth Kodiak WTF

Postby AndreB » Sat 23 Apr 2016 20:12

The problem isn't the viability of such tactic, i think its quite crap tbh. I have tried it myself, any slight attack to your main base and your dead.

Its more if new/noobs are struggling with it, if that is the case then increase its cost slightly or make it require a support bay or anything really.

Crushers were also super easy to defend against in proper 1v1s but they got nerfed multiple times.

Fenneks were fine in regular 1v1s as in they were countered and defeated easily, but it was too hard to do it for less experienced people. It also ruined the overall pace of the game because it was the most effective choice of units for chimera at the time.

So yeah nerf it if you wan't.

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Re: Stealth Kodiak WTF

Postby pathatas85 » Sun 24 Apr 2016 07:42

AndreB wrote:The problem isn't the viability of such tactic, i think its quite crap tbh. I have tried it myself, any slight attack to your main base and your dead.

Its more if new/noobs are struggling with it, if that is the case then increase its cost slightly or make it require a support bay or anything really.

Crushers were also super easy to defend against in proper 1v1s but they got nerfed multiple times.

Fenneks were fine in regular 1v1s as in they were countered and defeated easily, but it was too hard to do it for less experienced people. It also ruined the overall pace of the game because it was the most effective choice of units for chimera at the time.

So yeah nerf it if you wan't.


I think, 1v1 is not so big problem.
But 3v3 with random locations, you don't know where is his base. It happened to me 3v3. I know, he spent gold for research lab and upgrade and has less units In base.
But its more difficult get him in 3v3 game, find him, and allies can help him too

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Re: Stealth Kodiak WTF

Postby Opticalx » Sun 24 Apr 2016 13:30

pathatas85 wrote:
AndreB wrote:The problem isn't the viability of such tactic, i think its quite crap tbh. I have tried it myself, any slight attack to your main base and your dead.

Its more if new/noobs are struggling with it, if that is the case then increase its cost slightly or make it require a support bay or anything really.

Crushers were also super easy to defend against in proper 1v1s but they got nerfed multiple times.

Fenneks were fine in regular 1v1s as in they were countered and defeated easily, but it was too hard to do it for less experienced people. It also ruined the overall pace of the game because it was the most effective choice of units for chimera at the time.

So yeah nerf it if you wan't.


I think, 1v1 is not so big problem.
But 3v3 with random locations, you don't know where is his base. It happened to me 3v3. I know, he spent gold for research lab and upgrade and has less units In base.
But its more difficult get him in 3v3 game, find him, and allies can help him too


It really is not if you know how rush with 1 or 2 humvee's Going for a fast research lab seriously hinders you early game. If you see people going chimera just go US and go fast vehicle bay with 2 humvee's and you basicly win ez!
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Re: Stealth Kodiak WTF

Postby Gnougnou » Sun 24 Apr 2016 13:48

Opticalx wrote:It really is not if you know how rush with 1 or 2 humvee's Going for a fast research lab seriously hinders you early game. If you see people going chimera just go US and go fast vehicle bay with 2 humvee's and you basicly win ez!


See ? This is exactly what I said. Chimera is basically outplayed in anyway if someone rush. Rush is too viable and cause half the player to surrender within the 5 first minutes of the game if they are Chimera (otherwise vipers and javelins can get ride of them). There is NO point in playing chimera if you don't rush pumas or are not in a defensive spot (like spot 2 in the new 3v3 map), or play with "noob" players.

Back to the Kodiak, the problem is clearly that only Chimera can detect the kodiak at that stade of the game, which is broken. Either the kodiak has to decloak to build, or this upgrade need shield protocol. Killing buildings from a ghost constructor is basically non sense. If something is cloaked, something should be able to counter it, even in early game.

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Re: Stealth Kodiak WTF

Postby torinus » Sun 24 Apr 2016 14:23

Gnougnou wrote:
Opticalx wrote:It really is not if you know how rush with 1 or 2 humvee's Going for a fast research lab seriously hinders you early game. If you see people going chimera just go US and go fast vehicle bay with 2 humvee's and you basicly win ez!


See ? This is exactly what I said. Chimera is basically outplayed in anyway if someone rush. Rush is too viable and cause half the player to surrender within the 5 first minutes of the game if they are Chimera (otherwise vipers and javelins can get ride of them). There is NO point in playing chimera if you don't rush pumas or are not in a defensive spot (like spot 2 in the new 3v3 map), or play with "noob" players.

Back to the Kodiak, the problem is clearly that only Chimera can detect the kodiak at that stade of the game, which is broken. Either the kodiak has to decloak to build, or this upgrade need shield protocol. Killing buildings from a ghost constructor is basically non sense. If something is cloaked, something should be able to counter it, even in early game.

I agree, this thing should decloak when building.

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Re: Stealth Kodiak WTF

Postby AndreB » Sun 24 Apr 2016 14:39

Gnougnou wrote:See ? This is exactly what I said. Chimera is basically outplayed in anyway if someone rush. Rush is too viable and cause half the player to surrender within the 5 first minutes of the game if they are Chimera (otherwise vipers and javelins can get ride of them). There is NO point in playing chimera if you don't rush pumas or are not in a defensive spot (like spot 2 in the new 3v3 map), or play with "noob" players.

Well remenber me saying that chimera has to open pumas every game almost since the very day of the reboot coming out, if chimera does that its totally fine.

Another viable opener is get a turret in your base(its hard to know if your being rushed) but you can then go for namers with felins and get back into the game by just overwelming every bank taking prisoners, while your ref is safe at home.

Gnougnou wrote:Back to the Kodiak, the problem is clearly that only Chimera can detect the kodiak at that stade of the game, which is broken. Either the kodiak has to decloak to build, or this upgrade need shield protocol. Killing buildings from a ghost constructor is basically non sense. If something is cloaked, something should be able to counter it, even in early game.

#ReconUnits 8-)

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Re: Stealth Kodiak WTF

Postby Gnougnou » Sun 24 Apr 2016 14:53

AndreB wrote:Well remenber me saying that chimera has to open pumas every game almost since the very day of the reboot coming out, if chimera does that its totally fine.

Yeah I remember that. But going for rush every game is game breaking imo. It's just killing any fun you may have and is totally rude against new players. This is what I liked about the old AoA : you had so many possibilities before the lategame clusterfuck.

AndreB wrote:#ReconUnits 8-)

Omg I haven't thought about that... #ReconUnits, definitly. :D

AndreB wrote:Another viable opener is get a turret in your base

And what are you supposed to do against someone microing scorpio with smoke ? Nothing. You can't do anything against a good USA/Cartel player. Your pumas don't stand a chance neither in front of humvee+2javelins (450+200+200$ < 1100$ + they are fast). They can still switch to TOW and out range your sentry to get your kodiak+crushers. (your sentry can't be ON the ref so THERE IS a way that is less protected). As I said, Chimera AS to be on a defensive slot, otherwise this faction is worthless against good players. I want someone to prove me that rushing Chimera doesn't work, no matter how the Chimera guy started (SAS in buildings, Sentries, Puma rush).

Same goes for ref protection. If the enemy harassed you in early, he will just have to send an humvee with 2 rockets and blow your trucks on outbased ref cause you just can't make an outpost + def on every ref (2200+1400$....). So now what ? Pumas again ? Yeah ACCEE with more Javelins. Tigres ? You will need helipad+Lab+sight Upgrade+SWORD to make them useful, while they will just need grinches/stingers to blow them away for 200$ each. Namers + SAS ? Ok maybe this is the only solution, but ACCEE+Marines+Javelins+thunderbolts will destroy it. Or medivacs+marines+jav... Against Cartel ? Jackal + Scorpios...

I used to love this faction. Now its just rolling the dice and hope you won't be rushed. I almost never play this faction if I am front line and I don't know my enemies, because if they are good players I am fucked.

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Re: Stealth Kodiak WTF

Postby Opticalx » Sun 24 Apr 2016 17:53

Gnougnou wrote:
Opticalx wrote:It really is not if you know how rush with 1 or 2 humvee's Going for a fast research lab seriously hinders you early game. If you see people going chimera just go US and go fast vehicle bay with 2 humvee's and you basicly win ez!


See ? This is exactly what I said. Chimera is basically outplayed in anyway if someone rush. Rush is too viable and cause half the player to surrender within the 5 first minutes of the game if they are Chimera (otherwise vipers and javelins can get ride of them). There is NO point in playing chimera if you don't rush pumas or are not in a defensive spot (like spot 2 in the new 3v3 map), or play with "noob" players.

Back to the Kodiak, the problem is clearly that only Chimera can detect the kodiak at that stade of the game, which is broken. Either the kodiak has to decloak to build, or this upgrade need shield protocol. Killing buildings from a ghost constructor is basically non sense. If something is cloaked, something should be able to counter it, even in early game.


Go play No rush 20mins games then or something, sorry for the ignorant comment there. But I have never had a problem with the kodiak rush personally, and as for humvee they can be countered. Just takes 1 or 2 javs as US, few vipers, or an early sas or 2 if u go the duel rax build with chimera( which is tricky to pull off ) But it can work. But as stated the cost to get the invis kodiak + the time it takes to travel to the ememy + the time it takes to build a outpost + the time it takes to get a turret. you deserve to loose if it gets you. Yeah its a problem in the very early game but its like an all in strat, that leaves your main base open like a theme park!
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Re: Stealth Kodiak WTF

Postby Gnougnou » Sun 24 Apr 2016 18:39

Opticalx wrote:Go play No rush 20mins games then or something, sorry for the ignorant comment there. But I have never had a problem with the kodiak rush personally [...]. But as stated the cost to get the invis kodiak + the time it takes to travel to the ememy + the time it takes to build a outpost + the time it takes to get a turret. you deserve to loose if it gets you. Yeah its a problem in the very early game but its like an all in strat, that leaves your main base open like a theme park!

I've never said I had trouble with kodiak rush. I'm saying that everything that can be invisible in early game should be able to be detected in early game. This is PURE non sense that to see buildings being built in your base without ANY solution to detect the stealth constructor. Yeah you can counter what it builds pretty easily, but you cannot destroy the kodiak itself, which is stupid af ! You need Defcon 2 with USA which is completly stupid. Against Chimera you have turrets, and Cartel can get Jackals.

The problem is also that people not having experience in the game quickly fall under that strat because they don't rushed the player doing this. So the enemy may be a "theme park", but if nobody attacked him within 2mn, you lost your ally.

Opticalx wrote:or an early sas or 2 if u go the duel rax build with chimera( which is tricky to pull off ) But it can work.

I'm only talking about Chimera. Tell me, how many SAS do you need to protect all the access to your base, taking into acount that only one humvee will be destroyed because of reload time, that humvees cost less and that SAS are slower that a wall ?

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