In case you missed them..

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hansbroger
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In case you missed them..

Postby hansbroger » Fri 17 Mar 2017 20:32

There are some interesting, less well known armaments that could be included in game that will especially help fill out the FallschirmJager among others. I apologise if you guys already have them in game.

In a broader sense I think it would be cool to make this into a broader, faction non-specific thread of weird/undermentioned/underappreciated/underreported ITF Frontline Service Weapons that might otherwise fly under the radar.

I'll start with the 2.8cm sPzB 41 squeezebore AT "rifle" and the Solothurn S-18/100 and S-18/1000.

The 2.8cm sPzB 41 squeezebore AT "rifle" is a highly mobile AT weapon which was deployed with the FallschirmJager among others and is a reasonable AT piece able to get through 41-50 odd mm of RHA at 60° at 500m. This particular weapon's claim to fame its mobility, RoF and ability to be employed in rough and urban terrain like buildings. Overall it would be a rather interesting and useful weapon.
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Another mention goes to the Solothurn S-18/100 and S-18/1000 anti-tank rifles which were decent performers among their peers, being capable of defeating 16mm of RHA at 60° at 500m and potentially more for the larger round used by the 1000/1100. These were used by German troops but will also be a great investment in modeling time/balance considerations as they were used by Italy, Hungary, the Netherlands [Edit] as well as Finland (20mm pst kiv/18-s) and Romania. Again it's no Wunderwaffe but it served as an unglamorous ersatz AT gun for much of the war and would be highly flexible and useful weapon in the game.
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 18 Mar 2017 01:01

hansbroger wrote:2.8cm sPzB 41 squeezebore AT "rifle"

Also available in wheeled recce and half-tracked FSV flavours:
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I'm not sure if these ever turned up in Normandy but the 221 recon could be rather handy. Edit: I half remember the sPzB being mounted on the Platoon Command Hanomags when they ran out of 37mm doorknockers but that could be me confusing them for the autocannons that were definitely used in that role.

Further to your point about Fallschirmjaegers and their support weapons there existed a pair of Recoilless Rifles, both called the LG 40 because the Nazi regime's evil truly knew no bounds, in 75mm and 105mm calibre and intended for airborne troops. There was also another 105mm piece in service firing the same kind of shells because having two functionally identical guns designed from scratch and putting both into service definitely makes sense. Some of the 75mm type were used on Crete and they were scattered around the place generally. Axis History Forum thinks that both types saw limited service in Normandy: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=153602 and they're also quite small:
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They'd be quite handy for the German Paras, it would be an interesting contrast if the German Airborne had decent specialist teams like the LGs and sPzB but crap off-board stuff and the Allied Airborne were more reliant on Joint Fires for their real killing power.
Last edited by FrangibleCover on Sat 18 Mar 2017 01:53, edited 1 time in total.
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hansbroger
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby hansbroger » Sat 18 Mar 2017 01:23

All of those would be fantastic, the 105mm seems like an absolute blyat cannon for sure

The 221 with the sPzB would be a lethal phase 1/2 hit and run killer indeed. It makes me think of wargames ERC90.

It's a shame that the M18 57mm RR only hit the theatre in March of 1945
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby Bougnas » Sat 18 Mar 2017 13:15

I believe that the 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend in Normandy (featured in game) had some s.Pzb 41 so as SD will be very realistic we will probably see such weapons in game.
That would indeed make this game very unique by adding not well known weapons (which is IMO a great addition compared to the less varied unit rosters in CoH2).
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Sat 18 Mar 2017 14:30

s.PzB 41 (vehicle mounted) & Fallschirmjäger's recoilless howitzers are in.
American M18 is out of timeframe for Normandy.
Infantry heavy ATR on the other hand couldn't be done due to the required special animation.

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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby Vulcan 607 » Sat 18 Mar 2017 15:39

If you want an interesting plane the Hurricane MkIV with its universal wing would be very unique. The idea was you would change the wing depending on what you were doing this could also be asymmetrical. Wing options are 40mm anti tank gun with ranging machine gun, 2 20 mm guns and 8 303s.
Other armament includes rp3 rockets 250lb and 500lb bombs

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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 18 Mar 2017 16:25

Vulcan 607 wrote:If you want an interesting plane the Hurricane MkIV with its universal wing would be very unique. The idea was you would change the wing depending on what you were doing this could also be asymmetrical. Wing options are 40mm anti tank gun with ranging machine gun, 2 20 mm guns and 8 303s.
Other armament includes rp3 rockets 250lb and 500lb bombs

I thought they were all off to the CBI theatre by 1944?

Hint hint, Eugen. You've already got the jungle trees too.

[EUG]MadMat wrote:Infantry heavy ATR on the other hand couldn't be done due to the required special animation.

I think this is interesting, it shows Eugen's renewed commitment to realism. In RD a shoulder-fired RBS-56 or Pvpj-1110 or indeed 20mm ATR was fine but now it's not. Unfortunately it also probably means we'll still be seeing EE's weird infantry animations since if they'd overhauled them ATRs and other prone-fired weapons are an obvious addition.

Bougnas wrote:That would indeed make this game very unique by adding not well known weapons (which is IMO a great addition compared to the less varied unit rosters in CoH2).

I am beyond excited to see the cobbled-together side of the Wehrmacht rather then the usual legions of identical jackbooted thugs and Tigers. Unfortunately, the logistical streamlining of the Allies means that they'll generally have less of the cool goodies.
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Bougnas
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby Bougnas » Sat 18 Mar 2017 17:43

IIRC there will be enough variety in the Axis roster. Along with the obviously different gameplays between armored, mechanized and infantry divisions (like the "static division"), there will be some differences when it comes to equipment.
12th SS Panzer will probably have s.Pzb41 and more infantry than the Panzer Lehr (which will be more focused on tanks) while the 21st Panzer division will be very unique thanks to the modified french equipment and cool arty (multiple rocket launchers and multiple...mortar launchers.
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby hansbroger » Sat 18 Mar 2017 18:23

[EUG]MadMat wrote:s.PzB 41 (vehicle mounted) & Fallschirmjäger's recoilless howitzers are in.
American M18 is out of timeframe for Normandy.
Infantry heavy ATR on the other hand couldn't be done due to the required special animation.


Even as a morphed unit like the artillery or towed AT? I'd assume they would be handled like any other heavy infantry weapons team like a M1917 or Vickers HMG that you can't fire from the shoulder or hip, surely those units do not require a special animation (do heavy HMG teams "shoot from the hip" rather than firing from behind a setup gun?) seeing as they themselves are specialist heavy weapons teams like HMGs, light infantry mortars or other AT.

If anything I'd assume that a heavy ATR would be perfectly fine as a unit with a setup/takedown animation.... Honestly I'm sightly worried to see the "Special Animation" bugbear come out so early and in such a ubiquitous role as AT rifle, especially as we eventually look forward towards other factions like the Brits, Soviets, Italians and Japanese (thinking long term).... How are you guys handling the U.K. Boy's AT rifle?

Otherwise I assume that the [Not Yet Included] Red Army Frontoviki will just be shooting things like the PTRS from the shoulder like this superslav when you guys eventually get around to that side of the war :lol:
Last edited by hansbroger on Sat 18 Mar 2017 21:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby Shrike » Sat 18 Mar 2017 21:49

hansbroger wrote:
[EUG]MadMat wrote:s.PzB 41 (vehicle mounted) & Fallschirmjäger's recoilless howitzers are in.
American M18 is out of timeframe for Normandy.
Infantry heavy ATR on the other hand couldn't be done due to the required special animation.


Even as a morphed unit like the artillery or towed AT? I'd assume they would be handled like any other heavy infantry weapons team like a M1917 or Vickers HMG that you can't fire from the shoulder or hip, surely those units do not require a special animation (do heavy HMG teams "shoot from the hip" rather than firing from behind a setup gun?) seeing as they themselves are specialist heavy weapons teams like HMGs, light infantry mortars or other AT.

If anything I'd assume that a heavy ATR would be perfectly fine as a unit with a setup/takedown animation.... Honestly I'm sightly worried to see the "Special Animation" bugbear come out so early and in such a ubiquitous role as AT rifle as well looking forward towards other factions.... How are you guys handling the Boy's AT rifle?

Otherwise I assume that the [Not Yet Included] Red Army Frontoviki will just be shooting things like the PTRS from the shoulder like this superslav when you guys eventually get around to that side of the war :lol:

I see where eugen got their idea for AGS-30 and Pvpj 1110 teams.

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