In case you missed them..

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hansbroger
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby hansbroger » Sat 18 Mar 2017 21:54

Shrike wrote:
hansbroger wrote:If anything I'd assume that a heavy ATR would be perfectly fine as a unit with a setup/takedown animation.... Honestly I'm sightly worried to see the "Special Animation" bugbear come out so early and in such a ubiquitous role as AT rifle, especially as we look forward towards other factions with the longer term view of the game in mind.... How are you guys handling the Boy's AT rifle?

Otherwise I assume that the [Not Yet Included] Red Army Frontoviki will just be shooting things like the PTRS from the shoulder like this superslav when you guys eventually get around to that side of the war :lol:

I see where eugen got their idea for AGS-30 and Pvpj 1110 teams.


I really like where they went with the Kord, when you consider you could make a KPVT class HMG these days for the same weight as an M2 50 cal. I would still hesitate to call it "packable" but it's a damn nice weapon for light infantry that might have to hoof it into position on a ridge somewhere.
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 18 Mar 2017 23:42

hansbroger wrote:Vickers HMG

Odd thought but the Vickers MMG is actually going to be pretty good if it gets its realistic burst time, which is measured in days. It's basically going to be like an M163 CS team :lol:. Then again, the Rarden can do that too.

Here's one that's a bit of a Locust: Ready and in service but not taken. The 'Tonsil' rocket battery, used for shooting down V-1s but mountable on a truck and therefore technically kinda-sorta a mobile AA piece.
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http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205162085
Whether it could be fired from the truck I do not know and cannot tell you, overall it's probably not suitable for inclusion.
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It would be fun though.
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby hansbroger » Sun 19 Mar 2017 00:37

FrangibleCover wrote:
hansbroger wrote:Vickers HMG

Odd thought but the Vickers MMG is actually going to be pretty good if it gets its realistic burst time, which is measured in days. It's basically going to be like an M163 CS team :lol:. Then again, the Rarden can do that too.

Here's one that's a bit of a Locust: Ready and in service but not taken. The 'Tonsil' rocket battery, used for shooting down V-1s but mountable on a truck and therefore technically kinda-sorta a mobile AA piece.
Image
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205162085
Whether it could be fired from the truck I do not know and cannot tell you, overall it's probably not suitable for inclusion.
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It would be fun though.

That's just insane :o
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby FrangibleCover » Mon 20 Mar 2017 00:36

hansbroger wrote:That's just insane :o

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It worked alright though, that's a V-1 getting smoked by one. I will not speculate on how many rockets were required to achieve that. I've heard they were good in adverse weather conditions, presumably because they were no less accurate when you couldn't see what you were shooting at :lol:.

Realistically they're like the Meteor or Tempest though, in service but fully utilised doing an important job elsewhere while older and less flashy tech can do the work in Normandy.

Incidentally, does anyone know why the V-1s were launched during daylight hours when they could be taken down by fast day-fighters? Obviously they could still be engaged by Radar-guided AA at night (in part, courtesy of my Grandmother and her team of girls in a shed near Hastings) but you'd think that any possible edge the Germans could get at that stage would be advantageous, even if it was just driving the Tempest operational loss rate up as pilots screwed up the night landings.
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby jhfts » Tue 21 Mar 2017 05:21

FrangibleCover wrote:It worked alright though...Realistically they're like the Meteor or Tempest though, in service but fully utilised doing an important job elsewhere while older and less flashy tech can do the work in Normandy.


Not really.

The 3" and 7" AA rockets (Unrotated Projectiles, or UP in British parlance) were neither more advanced, nor any more effective than conventional AAA. British research in rockets as an AA weapon started in the mid-thirties, and the weapon was already in trials by 1939. It's worth noting that the weapon might have faded away at the developmental stage, had it not been for the intervention of Churchill, who, delighting in unconventional (and frequently impracticable) schemes, enthusiastically backed rocket production.

Neither appears to have achieved much in the way of success; the 7" naval variant seems to have been positively despised by it's operators, owing to the tendency of the parachute mines deployed by the rockets to blow back against the ships that deployed them. Overall, they were short-ranged and extremely crude solutions, with some very clear drawbacks - the barrages were essentially one-shot weapons, and relatively easy for enemy pilots to see (and avoid). Most of their use was in 1940-41, after Dieppe, when the British were wanting for adequate quantities of proper AAA; the UP was 'better than nothing', albeit not by much. Perhaps the only positive to come out of the whole affair was the much more useful repurposing of the rockets for ground attack in the Land Mattress MRL and as air launched 3-in RP-3 HE rocket.

FrangibleCover wrote:Incidentally, does anyone know why the V-1s were launched during daylight hours when they could be taken down by fast day-fighters? Obviously they could still be engaged by Radar-guided AA at night (in part, courtesy of my Grandmother and her team of girls in a shed near Hastings) but you'd think that any possible edge the Germans could get at that stage would be advantageous, even if it was just driving the Tempest operational loss rate up as pilots screwed up the night landings.


As far as I know, plenty were fired at night. But the Western Allies weren't exactly wanting for radar-equipped night fighters (Beaufighter, etc.), which mostly negated any advantage. Also, the pulse-jet propulsion on the V-1 supposedly had a very bright exhaust flame, and was extremely loud, which pretty much ruined any possibility of concealment.

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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby Killertomato » Tue 21 Mar 2017 05:50

It's kinda interesting how UP launchers disappeared from the public consciousness as a whole quickly after WWII. I've only heard of them in relatively obscure places, including a kid's book on missiles and rockets from the early '50s that made them appear... much more effective than they actually were.

It's still probably the most well-known of the really odd WWII AA weapons. The Japanese AA mine discharger and the Fliegerfaust were similarly interesting and just as effective.
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby chykka » Tue 21 Mar 2017 07:18

hansbroger wrote:
Shrike wrote:
hansbroger wrote:If anything I'd assume that a heavy ATR would be perfectly fine as a unit with a setup/takedown animation.... Honestly I'm sightly worried to see the "Special Animation" bugbear come out so early and in such a ubiquitous role as AT rifle, especially as we look forward towards other factions with the longer term view of the game in mind.... How are you guys handling the Boy's AT rifle?

Otherwise I assume that the [Not Yet Included] Red Army Frontoviki will just be shooting things like the PTRS from the shoulder like this superslav when you guys eventually get around to that side of the war :lol:

I see where eugen got their idea for AGS-30 and Pvpj 1110 teams.


I really like where they went with the Kord, when you consider you could make a KPVT class HMG these days for the same weight as an M2 50 cal. I would still hesitate to call it "packable" but it's a damn nice weapon for light infantry that might have to hoof it into position on a ridge somewhere.


And Cqc Mg3, running and gunning xD
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby FrangibleCover » Tue 21 Mar 2017 10:06

jhfts wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:It worked alright though...Realistically they're like the Meteor or Tempest though, in service but fully utilised doing an important job elsewhere while older and less flashy tech can do the work in Normandy.

Not really.

The 3" and 7" AA rockets (Unrotated Projectiles, or UP in British parlance) were neither more advanced, nor any more effective than conventional AAA. British research in rockets as an AA weapon started in the mid-thirties, and the weapon was already in trials by 1939. It's worth noting that the weapon might have faded away at the developmental stage, had it not been for the intervention of Churchill, who, delighting in unconventional (and frequently impracticable) schemes, enthusiastically backed rocket production.

Neither appears to have achieved much in the way of success; the 7" naval variant seems to have been positively despised by it's operators, owing to the tendency of the parachute mines deployed by the rockets to blow back against the ships that deployed them. Overall, they were short-ranged and extremely crude solutions, with some very clear drawbacks - the barrages were essentially one-shot weapons, and relatively easy for enemy pilots to see (and avoid). Most of their use was in 1940-41, after Dieppe, when the British were wanting for adequate quantities of proper AAA; the UP was 'better than nothing', albeit not by much. Perhaps the only positive to come out of the whole affair was the much more useful repurposing of the rockets for ground attack in the Land Mattress MRL and as air launched 3-in RP-3 HE rocket.

We're not talking about the parachute mine systems. Tonsil was a 2" time/impact fused system that may have been based on the RN's Pillar Box system. It was certainly better than nothing, the IWM claims it got its first kill the day after being deployed and then quickly got 8 kills in 11 days http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205162085 . The only numbers I have indicate that all AA in the seven weeks after Tonsil was deployed killed 1198 doodlebugs, averaging (and this is a high average because they certainly got better over time as proximity fuses arrived) 269 kills in any 11 day period. That means that a single Tonsil battery was responsible for at least 3% of all AA battery kills in the opening days of the V-1 threat. That's not bad. As I say, it worked alright.

There's a real dearth of information available about Tonsil, this is probably the best single source I've found:
http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index ... ic=19311.0

FrangibleCover wrote:Incidentally, does anyone know why the V-1s were launched during daylight hours when they could be taken down by fast day-fighters? Obviously they could still be engaged by Radar-guided AA at night (in part, courtesy of my Grandmother and her team of girls in a shed near Hastings) but you'd think that any possible edge the Germans could get at that stage would be advantageous, even if it was just driving the Tempest operational loss rate up as pilots screwed up the night landings.

As far as I know, plenty were fired at night. But the Western Allies weren't exactly wanting for radar-equipped night fighters (Beaufighter, etc.), which mostly negated any advantage. Also, the pulse-jet propulsion on the V-1 supposedly had a very bright exhaust flame, and was extremely loud, which pretty much ruined any possibility of concealment.

Fair enough, thanks.
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby hansbroger » Tue 21 Mar 2017 19:41

Apparently the visual signature was an issue with the attempts to launch V-1's by air over the north sea as well. I imagine they were stealthier (visually) during the day than at night.
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Re: In case you missed them..

Postby hansbroger » Tue 21 Mar 2017 20:30

When you try to Wehraboo for a WWII game but your wishlist only consists of armored cars and other weird stuff... Yup I'd be that guy playing a German motorized deck #halftrackistoomuchtrack

Sd.Kfz 234/1 [ie WW2's Muh Spähpanzer Luchs]
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Sd.Kfz 234/2 [Did someone say armored gun system?]
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Sd.Kfz 234/3 [Wheeled Stug ie German halftrack madness hits the armored cars... 75mm snub guns on everything!]
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Sd.Kfz 234/4 [Pak 40 on wheels!?]
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oh crap I should probably find one with germans.....
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Pretty much all of these things were involved in Normandy/Falaise with Panzer Lehr and various other formations as far as I can gather so there's hope for armored car nuts like me :lol:

Anyone know if any French or Italian Armored cars ended up in the normandy theater? I've seen claims that Panhard 178s with 5.0cm KwK L/42/60 guns were used and one was even captured and used in 1944-1945 by the 1st GMR (Groupement Mobile de Reconnaissance) of the FFI (French Forces of the Interior). This unit later it is claimed was called 'escadron autonome de chars Besnier' (Besnier independent tank squadron)... So if the Free French ended up with a few...
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Plus there's about 5 million different halftracks with the 75mm snub guns and Pak 40s, overall I can imagine making trollish sort of light cavalry division out of all of these heavy armored cars....
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Srsly why would you use Tigers and Panthers when you could have this stuff!?
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