Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

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Darkmil
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Darkmil » Sat 29 Apr 2017 20:14

axnone wrote:Yes I am aware that it takes ages to repair tracks IRL

It really depended on the tank. With the right tools and in a calm environment (when the enemy had retreated) T-34 tracks were quite easy to fix provided you had the links. Maus's tracks were another story, when they tried to field change the tracks it almost took them a day.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Aikmofobi » Sun 30 Apr 2017 03:17

No. The crew bailed out for a reason, whether it was a broken tread or an ammo storage on the verge of exploding. Whatever it was, make the abandoned vehicle completely non-functional and as if it was destroyed. Having it still appear to be alive is just confusing and annoying.

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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 30 Apr 2017 03:41

Aikmofobi wrote:No. The crew bailed out for a reason, whether it was a broken tread or an ammo storage on the verge of exploding. Whatever it was, make the abandoned vehicle completely non-functional and as if it was destroyed. Having it still appear to be alive is just confusing and annoying.

I disagree. If the track has broken, give me a 'Track has broken' crit. If the ammo is slowly cooking off, give me a 'slow cookoff crit' and kill the vehicle. If the crew has bailed out not because the tanks has been penetrated but because they don't wish to be in the tank when it is penetrated then that should give a 'crew bailed out' crit. Given enough time to regrow some backbone, with a lessened threat to themselves, then they should somewhat sheepishly get back into the tank.

Having a bailed-out or crew-killed tank that your units are still shooting at is realistic, tank crews tended to shoot at each other until a fire started. I'm not saying that I particularly enjoy the feature but there's a reason for it. The other consideration is the campaign. A tank that is active at the end of the battle will come to the next one, meaning that protecting high-value tanks with repairable crits is worthwhile. If my Tiger II's crew bail out mid-fight then I will need to do my absolute damnedest to keep the tank itself alive so that they come back in for the next fight, which is an option that's unavailable to me if the tanks just blows up of its own accord when the crew get out.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby orcbuster » Sun 30 Apr 2017 03:48

How common was it for abandoned crews to get back in the tank?

I mean if it was me first priority for me if I bailed then you get WAY out of there because it's an active combat zone and is likely to remain so for some time and you are effectively useless, not to mention the time it would require to get reorganized. In effect it means you are out of the fight for the forseable future.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby axnone » Sun 30 Apr 2017 04:24

Darkmil wrote:It really depended on the tank. With the right tools and in a calm environment (when the enemy had retreated) T-34 tracks were quite easy to fix provided you had the links. Maus's tracks were another story, when they tried to field change the tracks it almost took them a day.

Since heavy tanks are few ingame, the majority of tanks(Shermans, Pzkpf IV/V, etc) should be easy to fix. Different repair speed for different tanks? Just tossing ideas around.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Fade2Gray » Sun 30 Apr 2017 05:42

orcbuster wrote:How common was it for abandoned crews to get back in the tank?

I mean if it was me first priority for me if I bailed then you get WAY out of there because it's an active combat zone and is likely to remain so for some time and you are effectively useless, not to mention the time it would require to get reorganized. In effect it means you are out of the fight for the forseable future.


I was kinda wondering the same, but the next question is, how far would a crew bolt if they did bail out? I've seen references to some hiding under the tank, but that's about it.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Darkmil » Sun 30 Apr 2017 12:30

axnone wrote:
Darkmil wrote:It really depended on the tank. With the right tools and in a calm environment (when the enemy had retreated) T-34 tracks were quite easy to fix provided you had the links. Maus's tracks were another story, when they tried to field change the tracks it almost took them a day.

Since heavy tanks are few ingame, the majority of tanks(Shermans, Pzkpf IV/V, etc) should be easy to fix. Different repair speed for different tanks? Just tossing ideas around.

I like this idea.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 30 Apr 2017 12:44

Fade2Gray wrote:
orcbuster wrote:How common was it for abandoned crews to get back in the tank?

I mean if it was me first priority for me if I bailed then you get WAY out of there because it's an active combat zone and is likely to remain so for some time and you are effectively useless, not to mention the time it would require to get reorganized. In effect it means you are out of the fight for the forseable future.

I was kinda wondering the same, but the next question is, how far would a crew bolt if they did bail out? I've seen references to some hiding under the tank, but that's about it.

I've got nothing academic but a ditch near the tank seems to be a commonly mentioned location in memoirs and reports. I can't think of a reason to stay near a metal box full of explosives if it's not an intent to remount. How would you answer that hypothetical Fade, you're in your vehicle, you get thumped by something sufficiently scary to make you get out but not sufficiently damaging to render the vehicle combat ineffective, how far are you running and what will you do after the rest of your squadron(?) ruins the scary man's day? I think asking actual AFV crew could be a good way to get some feelings on this.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Fade2Gray » Sun 30 Apr 2017 16:01

FrangibleCover wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:
orcbuster wrote:How common was it for abandoned crews to get back in the tank?

I mean if it was me first priority for me if I bailed then you get WAY out of there because it's an active combat zone and is likely to remain so for some time and you are effectively useless, not to mention the time it would require to get reorganized. In effect it means you are out of the fight for the forseable future.

I was kinda wondering the same, but the next question is, how far would a crew bolt if they did bail out? I've seen references to some hiding under the tank, but that's about it.

I've got nothing academic but a ditch near the tank seems to be a commonly mentioned location in memoirs and reports. I can't think of a reason to stay near a metal box full of explosives if it's not an intent to remount. How would you answer that hypothetical Fade, you're in your vehicle, you get thumped by something sufficiently scary to make you get out but not sufficiently damaging to render the vehicle combat ineffective, how far are you running and what will you do after the rest of your squadron(?) ruins the scary man's day? I think asking actual AFV crew could be a good way to get some feelings on this.


I'm not someone you should ask on it TBH. The Cold War mentality that was still very strong in USAEUR (and Hood) when I got there for AFV crews was "death before dismount." Yes, even Brad crews had this mentality. It was not exclusive to tankers. I agreed with it for that matter, with all the firepower flying around, why would I bail out unless there were flames brewing up right in front of me despite the halon system?

Seriously, I have a deep disinterest in everything WW2 barring a few select things, so I'm horribly ignorant on it and all my experiences that might possibly be relevant are shaped my new technologies, doctrines, etc etc. As such, I think I'm a pretty shitty thing to try to source. I wish I could help, but sorry man, I don't think I can IMO.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Mike » Sun 30 Apr 2017 16:19

Fade2Gray wrote: I've seen references to some hiding under the tank, but that's about it.


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