Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

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hansbroger
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby hansbroger » Sun 30 Apr 2017 16:39

orcbuster wrote:How common was it for abandoned crews to get back in the tank?

I mean if it was me first priority for me if I bailed then you get WAY out of there because it's an active combat zone and is likely to remain so for some time and you are effectively useless, not to mention the time it would require to get reorganized. In effect it means you are out of the fight for the forseable future.


When my crews bail out I assume there was good cause to do so (it's annoying as hell but so are a lot of other realistic things that are "non-lethal" kills). Something has happened that has made the vehicle unfightable and the crew is either gone or lying low for the cover of darkness to either attempt a basic mobility restore/recover or escape. I think the "abandons in terror" isn't so much a realistic or frequent occurrence.

Most sides generally made strenuous efforts to recover abandoned and even partially burned out tanks, with most combatants also having pretty strenuous rules about crews staying to defend the vehicle if at all possible.

That being said, a tank had to be rather knocked up or the crew really green for a tank to be abandoned in most circumstances (there's mg bullets and shell bursts out there ffs). Thus in the former the tank is going back for repairs at a higher level workshop/depot or in the latter case the crew is spooked and isn't likely to be found near the perfectly good tank they left lying there.

In the Soviet case (I'm most familiar with US Army & RKKA practices, not so much German/UK) leaving a disabled tank out on the battlefield without lying low and trying to repair the issue overnight (to limp the vehicle back to friendly lines) was a great way to end up in a goal or penal battalion (or at least knocked down in rank). Not so much familiar with German or British policy on crew bailouts but most all combatants seemed to frown heavily upon abandoning a vehicle without good cause.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 30 Apr 2017 16:51

Fade2Gray wrote:I'm not someone you should ask on it TBH. The Cold War mentality that was still very strong in USAEUR (and Hood) when I got there for AFV crews was "death before dismount." Yes, even Brad crews had this mentality. It was not exclusive to tankers. I agreed with it for that matter, with all the firepower flying around, why would I bail out unless there were flames brewing up right in front of me despite the halon system?

Seriously, I have a deep disinterest in everything WW2 barring a few select things, so I'm horribly ignorant on it and all my experiences that might possibly be relevant are shaped my new technologies, doctrines, etc etc. As such, I think I'm a pretty shitty thing to try to source. I wish I could help, but sorry man, I don't think I can IMO.

Fair enough, thanks anyway. I didn't realise that Cold War tankers wouldn't get out of the tank unless made to.

Mike wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote: I've seen references to some hiding under the tank, but that's about it.

Fury/10

Good point. Track damaged crits should immobilise the tank and allow it to kill all enemy units in the surrounding 3km :lol:.

I'd forgive Fury a lot of things if it was enjoyable as a film.

hansbroger wrote:When my crews bail out I assume there was good cause to do so (it's annoying as hell but so are a lot of other realistic things that are "non-lethal" kills). Something has happened that has made the vehicle unfightable and the crew is either gone or lying low for the cover of darkness to either attempt a basic mobility restore/recover or escape. I think the "abandons in terror" isn't so much a realistic or frequent occurrence.

I'd be happier with them not remounting if it told you that the tank was broken rather than that the crew has gotten out. If the vehicle is unfightable because the Fleeble widget is broken or whatever then that's fine but write that on the vehicle instead of "Crew bailed out". Even just giving me "Track broken, crew bails out" and "Gun broken, crew bails out" would assuage my concerns about the mechanic.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Mike » Sun 30 Apr 2017 19:22

FrangibleCover wrote:
Mike wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote: I've seen references to some hiding under the tank, but that's about it.

Fury/10

Good point. Track damaged crits should immobilise the tank and allow it to kill all enemy units in the surrounding 3km :lol:.

I'd forgive Fury a lot of things if it was enjoyable as a film.


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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 30 Apr 2017 19:30

Mike wrote:Wehraboos would blow a gasket if the Easy Eight was in a game. Muh Panthers and Tiger I can't kill it from max range! Eugen this is unacceptable!!11!!1!

Did they change the armour scheme? I thought a normal E8 would functionally be an in-game 76(W) with better mobility, which is no bad thing. Mind you, I've found a picture of an E8 76(W) with applique armour that looks to be another Sherman's hull front and sides welded atop the old armour. That thing would ruin some days.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Fade2Gray » Sun 30 Apr 2017 23:11

FrangibleCover wrote:Fair enough, thanks anyway. I didn't realise that Cold War tankers wouldn't get out of the tank unless made to.


The two times I made suggestions on here I had people point out that my experiences and what not do not relate very well to how it was in WW2. One of those times was on this exact topic, ie about people bailing out of their vehicles. This isn't like WG where I have a solid enough idea of how things work as they relate in RealLife(tm).
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby captaincarnage » Sun 30 Apr 2017 23:14

If its dangerous inside a tank, its surely more dangerous outside unless the thing is going to explode imminently...
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Mike » Sun 30 Apr 2017 23:57

FrangibleCover wrote:
Mike wrote:Wehraboos would blow a gasket if the Easy Eight was in a game. Muh Panthers and Tiger I can't kill it from max range! Eugen this is unacceptable!!11!!1!

Did they change the armour scheme? I thought a normal E8 would functionally be an in-game 76(W) with better mobility, which is no bad thing. Mind you, I've found a picture of an E8 76(W) with applique armour that looks to be another Sherman's hull front and sides welded atop the old armour. That thing would ruin some days.


I always thought the Easy Right was a Jumbo + HVSS and 76.2mm.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby FrangibleCover » Mon 1 May 2017 00:37

Mike wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:
Mike wrote:Wehraboos would blow a gasket if the Easy Eight was in a game. Muh Panthers and Tiger I can't kill it from max range! Eugen this is unacceptable!!11!!1!

Did they change the armour scheme? I thought a normal E8 would functionally be an in-game 76(W) with better mobility, which is no bad thing. Mind you, I've found a picture of an E8 76(W) with applique armour that looks to be another Sherman's hull front and sides welded atop the old armour. That thing would ruin some days.

I always thought the Easy Right was a Jumbo + HVSS and 76.2mm.

Anything with HVSS is an Easy Eight because the HVSS is the M4AxE8 modification and US Phonetic at the time had E=Easy. They were mostly 3" armed but also came in 105mm and I think 75mm flavours. You can find Jumboised variants of pretty much anything, I think, and it's really up to Eugen whether they want to put them in a game or not. A Jumbo 105 HVSS could be a laugh; it'll sprint up to AT guns, shrug off their fire and derp them in the face with HE.

captaincarnage wrote:If its dangerous inside a tank, its surely more dangerous outside unless the thing is going to explode imminently...

Probably. If you're facing Panthers at their natural engagement range (2km away on a flat, frictionless surface of constant density) then you're better off outside the tank than in but in a normal combat situation either sitting tight or nipping out of the bottom hatch and lying under the tank seem like your best bets.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby KattiValk » Mon 1 May 2017 01:23

They should really just make bail outs count as generic non-catastrophic kills or just have delayed cook off.

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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby PzAz04Maus » Mon 1 May 2017 02:59

I've seen several references to hiding under the tank for Russians and Americans. They tended to do that if there was no nearby alternative, such as if there was a machine gun covering the tank or they were under significant fire. They would be hoping o God that the ammunition wouldn't brew up or that a tank wouldn't put another round to try and make the abandoned tank brew up.

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