Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

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Mephistopheles
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Re: Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

Postby Mephistopheles » Tue 9 May 2017 10:28

As a German player i find it incredibly hard to deal with lots of aircraft spam..

The available AA units for the german side a pretty sad and are being outperformed by their allied equivalent
Adding to that that the allies have the 50 cal on most vehicles wich will open fire and deal moral damage

I used all available slots for anti air in my deck and also deployed all of them. they all got destroyed by P47 Thunderbolts, Typhoons and spitfire.

given that Allies have the cal 50 as "ghetto" anti air and also very effective anti air systemsi would really like to see an buff to german anti air capabilities
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Re: Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

Postby KampfKeksKrieger » Tue 9 May 2017 12:42

We will still find a game where sophisticated dogfights are mandatory to chase down aircraft, from behind and with enough skill to survive that move like it is realistic.

This click and point adventure that SDN44 will become with this change can nobody stand who is older than 13.
And might be the aircraft out of bounds of all games, with this change, you spoil everything instead to repair.

That is my opinion. Am I not allowed to say that?

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Re: Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

Postby SalzStange » Tue 9 May 2017 14:40

In air war is just one problem.

The german FW190 A has the same price like the Mustang.
Mustangs were very strong aircrafts. Indeed.

But why they have the same price like a FW190 A?

The FW 190 A:
Is 100 kmh slower and has less attack power. I mean 100 kmh should be atleast 20 points or more.
Like it was before with the ftw 190 A The 190A was also 20-30 points expensiver as other aircrafts because it was 100 kmh faster but had less attack power.

but now.. the mustang is 100kmh faster and has mre attack power and cost the same like the fw190 A. :)

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Re: Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

Postby KampfKeksKrieger » Tue 9 May 2017 16:28

Only the 3rd Armored uses the Mustang right now, hope some other Allied Divisions will use it.
Only the 17.Pz and the 21. Panzer is using the FW 190 A8, the other version is the g3 bomber version.

Fighter stronger.jpg
Fighter stronger.jpg (191.89 KiB) Viewed 330 times


Lets compare both:
I would say the FW 190A8 is slightly stronger.

it has a bit more accuracy with its 2x MG 131 and the 4x MG151 have 8 HE instead of 6. You still get 36 damage as a sum, but I could think that the different loadout leads to a bit more firepower, than the general 6x6 that the Mustang has.
It also has a step more resilence, I can remember this kind of configuration also from other games.

Does the lower speed increase the agility of that figher, too? Or does the Mustang have the same turn radius at its faster speed?
I would say that the Mustang is a bit better in running, and the FW 190 is a bit better in the actual fight.

I could imagine, the resilence helps the german plane to get the edge in surviving.

American people have more voices to talk about their advantages, but I feel in a good position as a german, now you only need the skill to use this advantage.
I have already seen the lower speed as an advantage in a older game, where the Allied/Axis planes were involved. And also in wargame you find advantages coming from lower speed.
Lets hope that the skill of Air fights does not end with the skill of the bare plane.

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Re: Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

Postby Mister Maf » Tue 9 May 2017 17:08

I find the P-51 often overshoots its target at has a hard time in turn fights because of its high speed. I think the FW 190 A8 is better.
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Re: Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

Postby Operation Ivy » Tue 9 May 2017 17:39

It is not.

Yes it has issues with overshooting. However in return you basically are immortal. The Overshooting issue also becomes redundant once you get more planes up in the air. Don't neglect the fact that you can determine where to fight. You can safely pull any opposition over your AA and then finish them off. Also the P-47 Thunderbolt is even stronger than the Mustang.

Like i said a couple of times already, the only axis division so far that is *somewhat* competitive in 1v1 is the 17th SS and it still lacks a lot behind 2nd Infantrie and 2e Blindée. The problem is that most players didn't figure the game out quite yet and struggle a lot but once you play against a decent opponent you are in for an uphill battle.

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Re: Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

Postby SalzStange » Wed 10 May 2017 00:12

KampfKeksKrieger wrote:Only the 3rd Armored uses the Mustang right now, hope some other Allied Divisions will use it.
Only the 17.Pz and the 21. Panzer is using the FW 190 A8, the other version is the g3 bomber version.

Fighter stronger.jpg


Lets compare both:
I would say the FW 190A8 is slightly stronger.

it has a bit more accuracy with its 2x MG 131 and the 4x MG151 have 8 HE instead of 6. You still get 36 damage as a sum, but I could think that the different loadout leads to a bit more firepower, than the general 6x6 that the Mustang has.
It also has a step more resilence, I can remember this kind of configuration also from other games.

Does the lower speed increase the agility of that figher, too? Or does the Mustang have the same turn radius at its faster speed?
I would say that the Mustang is a bit better in running, and the FW 190 is a bit better in the actual fight.

I could imagine, the resilence helps the german plane to get the edge in surviving.

American people have more voices to talk about their advantages, but I feel in a good position as a german, now you only need the skill to use this advantage.

I have already seen the lower speed as an advantage in a older game, where the Allied/Axis planes were involved. And also in wargame you find advantages coming from lower speed.
Lets hope that the skill of Air fights does not end with the skill of the bare plane.


Thanks for uploading the picture.

But I guess you forgot that the mustang also shoot much faster and honestly 100kmh more speed is very very strong in air fights. Much more worth as the rest because: you can easily flee.

Flaks does not hit you that much because you are less time under fire, you can betther hunt other aircrafts and last but not least as I said you can easily flee from other aircrafts because: If you are 100 kmh faster.. other aircrafts mostly do not even get my mustangs. ;)

Edit: Mustangs need to be strong. The speed is fine and accurate. But I guess the price is a little bit to low or other aircrafts are to expensive. Should be more fair

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Re: Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

Postby gogopher » Wed 10 May 2017 19:36

try to remember that we are seeing just 4 divs out of 8 per side...and i get the feeling the best allied divs are yet to come (well same goes for the axis so..)

think all this balance, buff, nerf threads are a bit premature given the state of the game

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Re: Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

Postby KampfKeksKrieger » Thu 11 May 2017 21:52

You talk about your advantages, I talk about mine:

If you fly fast, you can also run into aircraft fast, or into AA net, before you realize what happens or what is there.
In a war you dont want to flee, but you want to grab the enemy, catch it by its tail, ideally.

You want a short kill, or no kill, because you have no time to play cat and mouse, that entraps your concentration, and you need to cover your whole offensive, and how much is that one plane worth?

So rather a quick decision, than a dubious success.

So as a conclusion:
Let them run! If they want to fight, they are dead.
But you stay at your core with your slower plane, 100 km/h gives you more control, to manoeuvre, and it always again proves true:

Many people rather die than thinking.
Edit: (Thats a quotation from the X3 Reunion manual that I liked)

So you learn first to catch a plane, and then you make a short, skilled and succesful kill.
If you start your plane first, without thinking, you land at chasing and escaping, not knowing exactly what to do with that plane, only that there is something to hunt down.
But as the plan is not ready, you stay 'hung up in the air' with your plane, which goes at cost of your ground gameplay.

And its nice to have a bit of discussion with you :)
Last edited by KampfKeksKrieger on Fri 12 May 2017 12:50, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Asymetric balance of Jerries VS allies in Normandy 44

Postby Mephistopheles » Fri 12 May 2017 12:34

KampfKeksKrieger wrote:Only the 3rd Armored uses the Mustang right now, hope some other Allied Divisions will use it.
Only the 17.Pz and the 21. Panzer is using the FW 190 A8, the other version is the g3 bomber version.

Fighter stronger.jpg


Lets compare both:
I would say the FW 190A8 is slightly stronger.

it has a bit more accuracy with its 2x MG 131 and the 4x MG151 have 8 HE instead of 6. You still get 36 damage as a sum, but I could think that the different loadout leads to a bit more firepower, than the general 6x6 that the Mustang has.
It also has a step more resilence, I can remember this kind of configuration also from other games.

Does the lower speed increase the agility of that figher, too? Or does the Mustang have the same turn radius at its faster speed?
I would say that the Mustang is a bit better in running, and the FW 190 is a bit better in the actual fight.

I could imagine, the resilence helps the german plane to get the edge in surviving.

American people have more voices to talk about their advantages, but I feel in a good position as a german, now you only need the skill to use this advantage.
I have already seen the lower speed as an advantage in a older game, where the Allied/Axis planes were involved. And also in wargame you find advantages coming from lower speed.
Lets hope that the skill of Air fights does not end with the skill of the bare plane.


What is completely forgotten is the fact that the machine cannon of the FW190 are aligned much closer to the centerline. Therefor they should have an accuracy advantage vs any other aircraft carrying its guns in the wings like the Mustag or p47 or spitefire.

Additionally the HE damage value for the 20 mm cannons is too low. 20mm airborne cannons used diffrent ammo than similiar counterparts used on vehicled for ground combat. often a mixed ammo load out of HE, AP, and Incendiary munition.

In one recorded incident an american pilot was engaged in a dogfight between his squad and a german squad when something struck his aircraft really hard that he had to eject. He believed that he collided with a german fw190 only to found out later that he was hit by an fw190. the Fw190 had huge firepower and dilivered an insane MASS per sec trigger pull down
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