Hidden Gunman wrote:
Factually what Razzman said is correct though.
Hidden Gunman wrote:However, if you also believe that the game should be balanced for the benefit of a select few, that's your view. I'll still hold the view that it should be tweaked for the benefit of the average player, because at the moment the player numbers aren't too good, and the actual player interest on the whole is waning, largely for the reasons that Gros and I and others have given.
I'd like you to quote to the part where I say that the game "should be balanced for the benefit of a select few". Because what I said was that when the game is balanced from top down, it also becomes more balanced for everyone, no matter what their level of skill is.
Sleksa wrote:]The game should still be balanced top-down in my opinion, as it's worked in every other rts title no matter what skill level the players are.
That is from your post to me...you and Razz have to accept the implications of his statement, which is balancing for the benefit of a select few.
As I said, I don't have an issue with the statement re high level ranked players/average joe...it is correct, and so is the implication I highlighted.
The question is, just how many ranked players are there playing at peak, and at trough? Excluding QP, and excluding what they class as 'noobs'. I'll bet there isn't a great number.
Whatever implications you take from what I said are yours alone, unless you're seriously telling me that either me or Razzman are actively trying to create imbalances in the game to benefit ourselves
? How does that even work without letting everyone else exploit the same things? I don't really even play steel division, and by the looks of things neither does razzman, so I'd love to hear what your perception for my/his motives are from that angle as well.
As far as the ranked/competitive scene goes, wargame series has basically never had a real competitive scene.
I know for a fact that there's a more pro and competitive scene existing in open red alert's c&c community, which has maybe 1/20'th the players that steel division has currently. This was the case 2 years ago, continues to be the case currently, and will continue to be so to the indefinite future in my eyes. If I had to polarize, these games mostly draw in people who are looking for whatever realism they percieve to be the most accurate depiction of cold war / ww2, rather than looking for a game they want to compete in, and due to a small pool and some level of inherent hostility towards people who are looking at the game from a competitive angle, there's no real chance to form up a even minimal competitive scene. I do want to note here that people who are drawn in by the realism angle more than the gameplay angle are completely fine with me, and the cold war / scandinavia theme was largely the reason why I got into the game series in the first place.
However, it also means that as a sideproduct there's never been a real positive attitude towards the people who look at the game from a competitive angle. As a prime example of the "players playing at the peak", Daywalker was a rts player with a long pause from the genre before I goaded him to try wargame. He had probably a total of 15-20 hours of total wargame playtime before he joined up to airlandbattle's esl tournament, and he ended up winning the most money out of the tournament, pioneering many different strategies and ideas that were later on taken to more wide use. In the ranked ladder, he had somewhere around a 95% winrate in ranked plays as well, which basically just screams about an absence of any kind of competitive community since if there were even a remotely competitive scene in that time, there would've been 0 chance for him to win as many tournament matches as he did for the sheer fact that he had very little idea of how the game works compared to the people who'd been playing since the release of euro escalator. I also had some background in rts, and I know for a fact that I'm barely mediocre (and that might still be generous) in many other games (aoe 2, starcraft). However I was also able to pull off a 90+ winrate in early wargame, before quitting after sitting for 48h straight in the ranked que without a single match. Instead of having that competitive scene, wargame's instead had a massive crowd of people screaming abuse and cheeser at people who've tried to play the game competitively. You can see this more or less everywhere if you start digging through some older things, and I'm fairly sure that this is what Razzman was more or less referring to.https://www.reddit.com/r/wargame/commen ... ry_of_top/