Steel Division sales...

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Saavedra
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Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Saavedra » Tue 20 Jun 2017 01:17

Frankly, I´m not surprised the game is losing players.

On top of having the whole "team stacks pubstomping randos" thing that we already saw in Red Dragon, we also have that the Axis are very obviously the best faction to do this with due to how hard it is to counter their stuff (heavy tanks, AT planes, nebels, MG34s). In Red Dragon, you had mostly samey factions, so you could have 50% split between Blufor and Redfor teamstackers. Not so in SD, where only a complete idiot would teamstack with the Allies.

So the imbalance is even more obvious, and the longer Eugen take to address the Germans´ stomping units and tactics, the faster the game will bleed players when you stack together the imbalance and the team stacking.

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Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Injuned » Tue 20 Jun 2017 03:47

After playing Rd its hard to go back to a ww2 setting, The toy box in Rd was and still is spectacular, the prototypes and mk variations of the different units is what sold the series to me from the start. The toybox in Eugenes new ww2 game needs to be bigger. Eg..Germany had hundreds of different types of tanks and personel carriers, not all were mass produced but the effort was extensive and well documented. I however don't feel that Eugene is worried about sales, the wargame series is pretty much a cult following, pretty much anyone who has ever bought the wargame series will eventually buy the new ww2 game, its almost a given, I will wait until the bugs are ironed out and the Price comes down a bit. paying 72 bucks for a game is robbery, bring it down to the 40-50ish level and I might check it out. I have TOW series games for my ww2 fix when I need it.

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Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Razzmann » Tue 20 Jun 2017 09:36

Hidden Gunman wrote:Ahhh...classic, "I'm good, you're not...therefore you don't count."

Don't you think that kind of supports what I'm saying? Scratch the surface and the elitism shows through, heh.....

Again putting words in my mouth I did not say...

Are you saying it is NOT the case, that in most - if not all - multiplayer games that have a competitive aspect, the biggest amount of players are the mediocre, average skilled players? Are you saying that nearly anyone who plays the game has the same skilllevel and therefore has a really good grasp of the balance?

I've seen plenty of discussions here and on reddit regarding Wargame balance. And usually, people don't know stats or mechanics properly.

I think you are delusional, being on a crusade against anyone who dares even touching ranked once...

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Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Hidden Gunman » Tue 20 Jun 2017 10:34

Razzmann wrote:
Hidden Gunman wrote:As I said, they are koala bears...very special, but their gaming experience is not the experience of the bulk of the players, and it's that bulk of the players that fill the game lobbies and ultimately buy the game.

And the bulk of players that generally can't use units to their full potential and are therefore not as much affected by many balance changes.


How can you even question my interpretation of your statement? It can't mean anything else.

So, the game should be balanced for the handful, and I repeat, handful, of elitist ranked players? Go find some other game company to wreck, because you and your kind are trying to do exactly that to Eugen with your "We know better than anyone else" attitude, Razz.

I agree, I might be delusional, I though you might have been somewhat more mature than your kind over on Paradox. I obviously was wrong...your kind is infesting this forum with your self-serving bias.

I told you to drop this, but as you haven't, fine...I damn near got two ranked know-it-alls banned on Paradox, and I'm quite happy to come gunning for you, boyo.
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It's a 17lbr, not a 76.2mm.

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Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby nande » Tue 20 Jun 2017 11:23

nvm
Last edited by nande on Tue 20 Jun 2017 11:35, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Sleksa » Tue 20 Jun 2017 11:31

Hidden Gunman wrote:
Razzmann wrote:
Hidden Gunman wrote:As I said, they are koala bears...very special, but their gaming experience is not the experience of the bulk of the players, and it's that bulk of the players that fill the game lobbies and ultimately buy the game.

And the bulk of players that generally can't use units to their full potential and are therefore not as much affected by many balance changes.


Ahhh...classic, "I'm good, you're not...therefore you don't count."

Don't you think that kind of supports what I'm saying? Scratch the surface and the elitism shows through, heh.....

I'd suggest we both let this slide at this point...it's likely to turn nasty.


Factually what Razzman said is correct though. An average player is likely to be not using units to their fullest potential in comparison to people who are objectively better. Better here means that they are more knowledgeable of the game mechanics, able to make better judgement calls and possibly faster (apm) as well. The thread I linked earlier was a textbook example of such a situation, where a player initially percieved a balance problem with the game (bomber trains being unkillable), but later deemed it an error in his play (non-ideal unit choices/compositions) and was able to overcome the problem.

This is not to say that the paradox forum style "i'm top 20 and you gotta l2p" isn't a fairly retarded way of arguing, which it is. A better argumentation would be to spesify what the player is doing wrong (bad or lack of micro, bad unit composition, lack of recon, whatever), and what he could try out to get different results. The game should still be balanced top-down in my opinion, as it's worked in every other rts title no matter what skill level the players are. Red Dragon also took leaps in the balance when the top players were voicing their input on many of the problems, and the game went from mixed nato or go home situation into many more things suddenly becoming viable, with many parts of the game being completely overhauled, and it ultimately made the game much better for everyone, even if it took a really long time to happen.
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Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Hidden Gunman » Tue 20 Jun 2017 11:43

Sleksa wrote:
Factually what Razzman said is correct though. An average player is likely to be not using units to their fullest potential in comparison to people who are objectively better. Better here means that they are more knowledgeable of the game mechanics, able to make better judgement calls and possibly faster (apm) as well. The thread I linked earlier was a textbook example of such a situation, where a player initially percieved a balance problem with the game (bomber trains being unkillable), but later deemed it an error in his play (non-ideal unit choices/compositions) and was able to overcome the problem.

This is not to say that the paradox forum style "i'm top 20 and you gotta l2p" isn't a fairly retarded way of arguing, which it is. A better argumentation would be to spesify what the player is doing wrong (bad or lack of micro, bad unit composition, lack of recon, whatever), and what he could try out to get different results. The game should still be balanced top-down in my opinion, as it's worked in every other rts title no matter what skill level the players are. Red Dragon also took leaps in the balance when the top players were voicing their input on many of the problems, and the game went from mixed nato or go home situation into many more things suddenly becoming viable, with many parts of the game being completely overhauled, and it ultimately made the game much better for everyone, even if it took a really long time to happen.


Sleks, I'm not questioning that...I'm questioning the attitude, and the elitist arrogance that comes from that. Notice the way Razz launched a personal attack on me for questioning his attitude, which he clearly stated...that's classic 'elitist' behaviour...and after I had suggested an end to the argument before it did turn personal and nasty.

However, if you also believe that the game should be balanced for the benefit of a select few, that's your view. I'll still hold the view that it should be tweaked for the benefit of the average player, because at the moment the player numbers aren't too good, and the actual player interest on the whole is waning, largely for the reasons that Gros and I and others have given.
A Firefly killed Wittman...

It's a 17lbr, not a 76.2mm.

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Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Razzmann » Tue 20 Jun 2017 11:48

keep playing the victim...
Last edited by Razzmann on Tue 20 Jun 2017 11:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby nande » Tue 20 Jun 2017 11:49

balancing for the average player is fundamentally flawed. Everyone is capable of improving, but it's an unrealistic expectation to have people gimp themselves in order to have fun.

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Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Lawliet » Tue 20 Jun 2017 12:12

Am I the only one here who think that this game is actually boring to play?

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