So has British AA been fixed?

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Cross
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Re: So has British AA been fixed?

Postby Cross » Sat 6 Jul 2013 01:26

DoktorvonWer wrote:
Cross wrote:Image

And there.
See I wouldn't mind it being 3000m's if it had radar making it killerble by SEAD

But at the moment i dont think i've played an opponent with sead since they figured out they can attack with clusters :)

Or the Soviet Su24mp the one with all the 225kg bombs.


Great, though I'd personally go for 55 cost, max. 2800m is not a huge range; a whole extra 20 points for the sake of 650m extra range on a slow, lightly armoured system already prices it equal to many other, more kitted out systems.

I'd definitely like the Marshals etc. to consider checking this out, and to work out what price is appropriate. Otherwise, I hope we get a bit more availability on these things; their low numbers per card doesn't help with such tiny coverage area.


Well I have to agree but if its not seen to be pricey people who don't play both sides will cry "OP".
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Re: So has British AA been fixed?

Postby Jamaize » Sat 6 Jul 2013 03:04

I'm going to just say it: I really liked the rapier before the 'buff'. When playing a UK national deck there was no question of the nonsensical gaping whole that was left vs helis but my god was it a beautiful backflipping monster when a jet was foolish enough to come within range. It complimented a team game AA net beautifully though it perhaps wasn't flexible enough to make it into a 1v1 NATO deck especially considering the extra anti-SEAD micro for a short range system.

There is clearly now a viable alternative to dealing with enemy planes for the UK in the anti-air jet buffs across the board. I think this valid (from what I've seen so far) alternative is one of the first few changes (along with the now entirely viable PACT mediums) to evolve into actual flavour Irather than just an imbalanced gimp from a gameplay perspective.

My personal problem with the Rapier is its availability (not suggesting it's not balanced as it is). Having to rellocate AA assets as if they were artilery (which I choose if and when to use/fire/expose) otherwise live in fear of a counter battery (or worse a bombing run that can't be deterred wiping out an irreplaceable unit. However, with regards to AA in general (which I feel is the primary point before dealing with discussion on such a different/nieche unit as the Rapier (as modelled in game)) they have seemingly reduced ECM on all but SEAD aircraft(??) but not in the changelogs from what I can see; going back to cross' point.


All in all I feel the meta game for UK AA is so different it can't be compared directly to other nations. Eugen clearly agreed that it was overall weaker previously but have hoped to retain the different flavour in the patch, are we really saying we've played enough games (from 1v1 ranked to 10 vs 10) to form a valid opinion yet? I mean I'm even having success with the sea harriers taking down heli swarms so am considering this AA missile net over my entire front line as a requirement less and less.



tl;dr:

Agree with cross about AA in general needing a buff (does it have it now with lower ECM planes?). Rapier is a different beast in game to other AAs and its shortcomings (which were clearly noted by Eugen) are perhaps being viably plugged in other ways.

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Cross
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Re: So has British AA been fixed?

Postby Cross » Sun 7 Jul 2013 13:16

Jamaize wrote:I'm going to just say it: I really liked the rapier before the 'buff'. When playing a UK national deck there was no question of the nonsensical gaping whole that was left vs helis but my god was it a beautiful backflipping monster when a jet was foolish enough to come within range. It complimented a team game AA net beautifully though it perhaps wasn't flexible enough to make it into a 1v1 NATO deck especially considering the extra anti-SEAD micro for a short range system.

There is clearly now a viable alternative to dealing with enemy planes for the UK in the anti-air jet buffs across the board. I think this valid (from what I've seen so far) alternative is one of the first few changes (along with the now entirely viable PACT mediums) to evolve into actual flavour Irather than just an imbalanced gimp from a gameplay perspective.

My personal problem with the Rapier is its availability (not suggesting it's not balanced as it is). Having to rellocate AA assets as if they were artilery (which I choose if and when to use/fire/expose) otherwise live in fear of a counter battery (or worse a bombing run that can't be deterred wiping out an irreplaceable unit. However, with regards to AA in general (which I feel is the primary point before dealing with discussion on such a different/nieche unit as the Rapier (as modelled in game)) they have seemingly reduced ECM on all but SEAD aircraft(??) but not in the changelogs from what I can see; going back to cross' point.


All in all I feel the meta game for UK AA is so different it can't be compared directly to other nations. Eugen clearly agreed that it was overall weaker previously but have hoped to retain the different flavour in the patch, are we really saying we've played enough games (from 1v1 ranked to 10 vs 10) to form a valid opinion yet? I mean I'm even having success with the sea harriers taking down heli swarms so am considering this AA missile net over my entire front line as a requirement less and less.



tl;dr:

Agree with cross about AA in general needing a buff (does it have it now with lower ECM planes?). Rapier is a different beast in game to other AAs and its shortcomings (which were clearly noted by Eugen) are perhaps being viably plugged in other ways.


Your Right about the Rapier.
The problem with using air as Force Protection is that its not viable as soon as pact moves up its superia Radar Guided SAM's and IR SAMS your Ducked.

They deny you your Force Protection so you just get rolled on by all the bombers then tanks that you cant combat because they shoot your bombers down with there BUKs :(

I Usually go for a depth defence using javlin or blowpipe, falcon and rapier but it makes no diffrence soon as rapier is down your done.

F2/3 sustains damage and takes alot longer to get back in the fight and at that point you have nothing to stop more cluster bombers and that soviet SU with all the 250kg bombs. Then the Hinds come...
Or they use Hinds as a sheild to stop you advancing :(
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Cross
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Re: So has British AA been fixed?

Postby Cross » Wed 17 Jul 2013 14:04

Stormer HVM
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I know the dev's said no new units but wouldn't it be nice to have the Stormer as a Prototype Anti Helly SAM
And revert Rapier to its role of killing jets? :)
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Xeno426
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Re: So has British AA been fixed?

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 17 Jul 2013 14:09

When did that thing come out? Looks kinda recent.
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CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

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Cross
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Re: So has British AA been fixed?

Postby Cross » Wed 17 Jul 2013 14:14

Xeno426 wrote:When did that thing come out? Looks kinda recent.


Wrong lol,

1986 apparently starstreak missiles too.
Last edited by Cross on Wed 17 Jul 2013 14:26, edited 1 time in total.
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David™
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Re: So has British AA been fixed?

Postby David™ » Wed 17 Jul 2013 14:17

The Alvis Stormer was originally designed as a private venture in the 1970s as an APC, using the CVR(T) range as a starting point. It is a larger, heavier (12,700 kg) vehicle with steel and aluminium armour. Production began in 1982 and Malaysia ordered 25 of the APC variant.[21]

The British Army selected Stormer in 1986 to carry the Starstreak missile anti–aircraft system[22] and a flatbed version fitted with the Shielder minelaying system.[23]

BAE Land Systems, the descendant of Alvis military vehicles, market Stormer with various weapon systems for many purposes. Indonesia have received about 50 Stormer variants, including the APC, command post vehicle, ambulance, recovery, bridge-layers and logistics vehicle. Malaysia have 35, Oman four and the United Kingdom have over 170.[21]


According to various sources, it was already in the pipeline well before that, and would make it similar to the Warrior IFV, which has been put in game.

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Cross
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Re: So has British AA been fixed?

Postby Cross » Thu 18 Jul 2013 13:01

Stormer would be nice but its not going to happen due to it being a "new" model :(

1986 too ;)

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horsman
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Re: So has British AA been fixed?

Postby horsman » Thu 5 Sep 2013 16:27

sorry to resurrect a old thread, but its better than making a new one on this topic.

so today just 5 mins ago played a 1v1, mig21 spam all game, took out 14 migs before they managed to overwhelm my AA, kill them all and leave me defensless to air attack, and to make things worse the guy has the ballz accuse me of camping, it's kinda hard to attack when you cant even get units past your thin lines due to cluster spam, just gotta say this was the worst match iv played in a long time. So no UK AA isn't sorted. although i do relies this is a rare occurrence and would probably overwhelm any AA network, i just feel like extra range, so misses are actual fired before the bombs dropped might actually be useful.
Don't mind my spelling I'm just dyslexic
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DoktorvonWer
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Re: So has British AA been fixed?

Postby DoktorvonWer » Thu 5 Sep 2013 19:22

horsman wrote:sorry to resurrect a old thread, but its better than making a new one on this topic.

so today just 5 mins ago played a 1v1, mig21 spam all game, took out 14 migs before they managed to overwhelm my AA, kill them all and leave me defensless to air attack, and to make things worse the guy has the ballz accuse me of camping, it's kinda hard to attack when you cant even get units past your thin lines due to cluster spam, just gotta say this was the worst match iv played in a long time. So no UK AA isn't sorted. although i do relies this is a rare occurrence and would probably overwhelm any AA network, i just feel like extra range, so misses are actual fired before the bombs dropped might actually be useful.


UK AA lacks range, but is amongst the most powerful in-game.

Rapiers and Rapier FSA taken veteran/elite (mechanised decks) are the ultimate NATO plane-killers, and will take down things faster than Pact players can often even order an evac, simple because they can fire very fast, accurate missiles in very, very fast succession without having to reload every 2 missiles like the Rolands do.


I would like to see Starstreak infantry and Starstreak on the Stormer HVM in Red Dragon, though, would be a brilliant high-tech local area air defence for NATO.
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