July 14th: vehicle review

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[EUG]MadMat
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Re: July 14th: vehicle review

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Tue 16 Jul 2013 21:24

Graphic wrote:I was also quite surprised one time when he said the Abrams is better than the Leopard 2 in every way but commander optics and fuel economy. It's rare to see a European not consider the Abrams as the worst MBT ever designed :lol:

It is far from being the worst MBT ever designed. Yet, I think it is also far from being the perfect jewel of OPness the American Army PR/Hollywood want to make it pass for.
It is a very good all-around tank, without real drawbacks, but not the "deadliest killing machine ever" you often see it labeled abroad the Atlantic.

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chema1994
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Re: July 14th: vehicle review

Postby chema1994 » Tue 16 Jul 2013 22:12

MBT discussion?
see my avatar and look at the best tank (at least in NATO) :lol:
But seriously the Leclerc is a good design but was introduced too late, when MBTs were less and less important and the military budgets smaller and smaller

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Graphic
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Re: July 14th: vehicle review

Postby Graphic » Wed 17 Jul 2013 01:12

[EUG]MadMat wrote:
Graphic wrote:I was also quite surprised one time when he said the Abrams is better than the Leopard 2 in every way but commander optics and fuel economy. It's rare to see a European not consider the Abrams as the worst MBT ever designed :lol:

It is far from being the worst MBT ever designed. Yet, I think it is also far from being the perfect jewel of OPness the American Army PR/Hollywood want to make it pass for.
It is a very good all-around tank, without real drawbacks, but not the "deadliest killing machine ever" you often see it labeled abroad the Atlantic.


Precisely. It's a great tank and by most objective measures one of the best tanks in the world, but not invincible by any means (like any other tank). The problem arises when people take their disgust/amusement with the propaganda surrounding the Abrams and direct it onto the tank itself, deluding themselves into thinking it's not good.

To be fair that's only half of it, though. The other half is the circle-jerking about German tanks, ultimately based on their (IMO) highly overrated WW2 designs. To some, you could pretty much put an iron cross on a van with sheet metal drilled to the sides, call it Leopard 3 and they'd hail it as the second coming :lol:

It's the same kind of perception bias that makes American hicks think an Abrams can bounce T-90 shells off the back of its turret, just from the opposite side of the issue. Both camps are stupid and I think everyone sane can agree that the Abrams and Leopard 2 are both first rate tanks but not wunderwaffen.

Any way I'm sorry I derailed your Bastille Day thread :(
k

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Re: July 14th: vehicle review

Postby Col_Sandfurz » Wed 17 Jul 2013 13:02

I personaly like the design of the Leclerc very much. Expecially the design of its turret and the GALIX system.
The electronics of this tank are really nice, they can now fire NATO rounds and it seems to be really fast.

And I also love the AMX-10RC. It has the same kind of design as the Leclerc.
The AMX-10RC seem to be very good in Mali and other low intensity conflicts.

What a pitty, the French can build really bad ass looking tanks, but IMHO not so good looking cars. Maybe the tank designers should give the car designers a lesson ;)

Question: What are the SAM's
First picture is the Crotale NG, do the French have them on wheeled Trucks like the older Crotale?
But what is the second (MF Radar?) and third(TEL)? SAMP/T or VL MICA?

Thank you for the nice pictures!!

Nevertheless no one will ever change my opinion about what is the best MBT (hint: look at my signature :P )
I hope the Bundeswehr will get the 2A7+.. what a fine piece of german engineering *dream*

OT: What makes Eropeans think the Abrams is worse is IMHO the gas turbine. The Leo 2 is not more heavy than the M1 but much more fuel efficent and also very "agile".
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Re: July 14th: vehicle review

Postby Bryan » Wed 17 Jul 2013 14:21

So Fahrenheit and Walkin' saved the day again...and Pitbull did not shoot down the KC-135 over Paris incinerating the Eugen developers... :)

Nice pictures! i paticularly liked the amount of Legionaires! reminds me when I was younger in Singapore where Military expos, airshows, open houses and National day military exhibits were an almost must go for me and my family. Too bad Australia doesnt have many of them.

Actually, what are Ceasars meant for? You have a semi mobile platform that needs to be deployed which cannot shoot and scoot. Care to explain their roles?

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Re: July 14th: vehicle review

Postby Pr.shadocko » Wed 17 Jul 2013 15:04

CAESAR are meant to be light, cost-efficient, "easy" to use and maintain and most criticaly it can be used in a projection force (meaning abroad his own territory)

It's actually the opposite concept of the Amx Auf1 armored, NBC-protected, mobile in Cold war meaning, but nobody would have dare thinking about sending Auf1 in Mali or afganistan for example, even if such firepower would have been nice to have.


Edit: french car:
Spoiler : :
Image

Image

and the most most beautiful :lol:

Image
Image
(c) Darkmil

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Re: July 14th: vehicle review

Postby urielventis » Wed 17 Jul 2013 15:54

Col_Sandfurz wrote:Question: What are the SAM's
First picture is the Crotale NG, do the French have them on wheeled Trucks like the older Crotale?
But what is the second (MF Radar?) and third(TEL)? SAMP/T or VL MICA?


The second is the mobile radar, "arabel" I think.
The second is the ground launcher for the Aster 30 , SAMP/T as you said.
I don't know if it can shot Mica VL (it is conceive for ASTER-30, but in navy launcher Mica VL can be place in ASTER-30 tube, Crotal NG too in four pack )
ImageImage

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Re: July 14th: vehicle review

Postby chema1994 » Thu 18 Jul 2013 21:17

Pr.shadocko wrote:Edit: french car:
Image

But German engine 8-)

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