Taiwan and US vs China

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Graphic
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Graphic » Wed 12 Feb 2014 04:34

You say like there isn't always AWACS.
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby ericdude88 » Wed 12 Feb 2014 04:42

Drang wrote:Or how North Korea is even going to get it's armies over the 38th parallel.


Vestly wrote:
Drang wrote:Seriously.

There will be plenty of warning of this imminent attack. WP-style armies are not capable of strategic surprise due to their sheer scale, not in an era of satellite recon. Bait them into engaging over the Taiwan strait, start chipping away at their ADN with SEAD, let them commit their ground forces on Taiwan, see how much you can bait them into committing their reserves.

Then you throw the entire Indian Army into their flank. Sing "trololololol", extract concessions.

Mission Accomplished.


It would work if China would invade with 3M men and not with 100-200k men like in case of Taiwan. :roll:
I can imagine USA transporting all equipment from SK to Taiwan(because of PLA preparing for invasion) and NK would start a suprise attack. Then , USA would have to transport everything back to SK to help SK and Taiwan would be lost.




200k men isn't going to cut it. Perhaps for the initial wave, but it's going to have to be followed up with serious numbers if they want to subdue Taiwan. And that's the trick. Hamstring the first wave, get them to commit more reserves in, and then hit when that's in transit. Bag 200-400K first-line Chinese troops, depending on how well the SEAD campaign is going, then throw the Indians into their flank. Having lost a good chunk of it's fighting capability, the PRC is either going to have to risk uprising elsewhere by committing second-line troops, or accept Indian territorial ambitions. Either way, Taiwan is saved, and Freedom is spread.


You guys throw around the word "SEAD" as if China is like Saddam's Iraq.

US actually obtained a sample of S-300PMU to use during SEAD testing exercise. It did not go very well for their SEAD :(

HQ-9 is on that level, FYI. Turkey just chose it as their primary long range strategic air defense SAM, against NATO's wishes.

Not to mention, China is not at all behind in the playing field of radar. They can probably handle a US SEAD campaign quite well.

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby ericdude88 » Wed 12 Feb 2014 04:47

Graphic wrote:You say like there isn't always AWACS.


Then there is Chinese AWACS, and then there is ways China can disrupt AWACS.

It all boils down to electronic warfare I suppose.

However by no means does it mean US absolute aerial domination.

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby HoveringKiller » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:11

I don't believe that all of the USAF would be able to mobilize over Taiwan in just one day, but more likely two. The first day to arrive in the theater, then the second day. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't mid air refueling mean that planes in America could make it to Taiwan if necessary. However then you have to factor in the psychological condition of the pilot after the endless hours of fighting and whether or not they will still be effective. But it seems like it would still be possible. (I have heard that B-52's from america were running sorties in Iraq, then returning back to the states. IDK if its true or not, but with midair refueling technologies, it definitely seems possible). Keep in mind, I'm not saying the U.S. air force will totally win the conflict for America/Taiwan, it would still be a bloody stalemate that would end up going no where, but it is possible for the U.S. to deploy air assets to Taiwan near immediately. Heck, what about planes from bases in the southwest pacific ocean? This is all just speculation, as I am no military technology expert, but this is what I do think I know. If someone has something else that is right, I'm all ears.
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby ericdude88 » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:18

HoveringKiller wrote:I don't believe that all of the USAF would be able to mobilize over Taiwan in just one day, but more likely two. The first day to arrive in the theater, then the second day. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't mid air refueling mean that planes in America could make it to Taiwan if necessary. However then you have to factor in the psychological condition of the pilot after the endless hours of fighting and whether or not they will still be effective. But it seems like it would still be possible. (I have heard that B-52's from america were running sorties in Iraq, then returning back to the states. IDK if its true or not, but with midair refueling technologies, it definitely seems possible). Keep in mind, I'm not saying the U.S. air force will totally win the conflict for America/Taiwan, it would still be a bloody stalemate that would end up going no where, but it is possible for the U.S. to deploy air assets to Taiwan near immediately. Heck, what about planes from bases in the southwest pacific ocean? This is all just speculation, as I am no military technology expert, but this is what I do think I know. If someone has something else that is right, I'm all ears.


Not even a KC-135 Stratotanker can fly from USA straight to Taiwan. Even if it doesn't refuel another plane, on full fuel load it is able to fly 1,500 miles maximum before running out of fuel.

For perspective, the distance between the Eastern coast of Taiwan and most Western coast of California is 6,732 miles.

You're dreaming if you think that USAF can just send a hornets nest of mid-air refueling planes + fighters to Taiwan.

Lets stop the arcady perception of war already! :x

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Tac Error » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:25

It will just be like Wargame.
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby panzersaurkrautwefer » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:26

Welp. My laptop is mortally wounded, so I'm likely posting in shorter bursts until it's replaced.

First, here's the photos I promised from inside a tank, with forum board member messages written in my chicken scratch.

This is the slightly censored messages resting on the breach of the M256

Image

Slightly more zoomed out, messages are illegible, but you can tell same paper, same gun tube.

Image

And then finally, here's my "office" with the same messages. If you know anything about the M1 series tank, it's very obviously a very late model M1A2 (rather the M1A2 SEP v2), and not a museum tank (for those of you who don't know tanks, you can see the CITV screen, the multifunction display which are both only on M1A2 models, while the second joystick is the CROW control, and the box with the three red covered toggles is the system controls for the CROW which is only on M1A2 SEP V2).

Image

I will be accepting ericdude's apology shortly for his slanderous and patently false accusations.

And I'll be posting more on his logical failings, just this damn computer makes it 30-45ish minutes before it goes to pieces.
Do I look like a reasonable man to you, or a peppermint nightmare?

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Drang » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:28

ericdude88 wrote:
Iris wrote:
The F-15 is hardly outdated when it can fire AMRAAM's over 180km away...



Wut? Show me where you found that. That's like the detection range of MiG-29 sized targets for its latest AESA radar... Not engagement range...Maybe for F-22A, but not F-15 of any block...

Plus, with the known bottleneck in IFF friend or foe detection systems, firing 180 km away is like asking to shoot down friendly aircraft, unless you have AWACS :lol:


Since when does the US operate without AWACs?


ericdude88 wrote:
You guys throw around the word "SEAD" as if China is like Saddam's Iraq.

US actually obtained a sample of S-300PMU to use during SEAD testing exercise. It did not go very well for their SEAD :(

HQ-9 is on that level, FYI. Turkey just chose it as their primary long range strategic air defense SAM, against NATO's wishes.

Not to mention, China is not at all behind in the playing field of radar. They can probably handle a US SEAD campaign quite well.



Lol, what fantasy world do you live in.

SEAD missions were successful in Vietnam where they were using F-100 Super Sabres with cannons and rockets. They were successful when they were using a modified AIM-7 that was outranged by the SAM. It was successful when flying B-52s within SAM optimal engagement ranges and relying on jamming alone.

Magic Super S-300 uberSAM isn't going to change that. Even if it can outrange the Wild Weasel planes, even if it can target them from that range with the jamming missions, all you need to do is fly under it's radar horizon until you are in optimal engagement range for your ARM, pop up, lock, launch, and then drop below the horizon and burn for home. Hell, if you're ballsy enough, you can paint the position, buzz in at low level and cluster bomb the thing.
Last edited by Graphic on Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:37, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Language

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Graphic » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:29

panzersaurkrautwefer wrote:Welp. My laptop is mortally wounded, so I'm likely posting in shorter bursts until it's replaced.

First, here's the photos I promised from inside a tank, with forum board member messages written in my chicken scratch.

This is the slightly censored messages resting on the breach of the M256

Spoiler : :
Image


Slightly more zoomed out, messages are illegible, but you can tell same paper, same gun tube.

Spoiler : :
Image


And then finally, here's my "office" with the same messages. If you know anything about the M1 series tank, it's very obviously a very late model M1A2 (rather the M1A2 SEP v2), and not a museum tank (for those of you who don't know tanks, you can see the CITV screen, the multifunction display which are both only on M1A2 models, while the second joystick is the CROW control, and the box with the three red covered toggles is the system controls for the CROW which is only on M1A2 SEP V2).

Spoiler : :
Image


I will be accepting ericdude's apology shortly for his slanderous and patently false accusations.

And I'll be posting more on his logical failings, just this damn computer makes it 30-45ish minutes before it goes to pieces.


Image
k

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby HoveringKiller » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:36

I didn't mean that the refuling planes flew in from america as well, but from strategical staging points in the pacific to intercept the fleets of aircraft to help them get either within striking distance of Taiwan. Is that not the purpose of a mid air refuel?

Edit: I also said that they didn't have to strike taiwan in a continuous flight, although I though, THOUGHT, it might be possible, just move into position to begin combat operations in the next day or so.
Last edited by HoveringKiller on Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:39, edited 1 time in total.
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