Taiwan and US vs China

Guggy
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Guggy » Tue 11 Feb 2014 04:28

Shhhh you're ruining his fanfiction!!!

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LoneRifle
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby LoneRifle » Tue 11 Feb 2014 04:36

Vestly obviously overestimates how "necessary" China's cheap goods are when their are literally 10 other countries lined up ready to produce our cheap stuff. They need us 10x more then we need them.
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Arglabarg » Tue 11 Feb 2014 05:10

Did anyone point out yet that win/loss means nothing without a strategic situation to consider? Or am I too late.

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby katt » Tue 11 Feb 2014 05:51

Vestly wrote:
Kralizec wrote:I see no cited sources except by your word of mouth- which is is inadequate for debate purposes. Give me cited studies, order of battle sheets and et cetera and then we'll talk.

Moreover don't put words in my mouth, it sinks your argument(or lack thereof) even further

I already mentioned , that you can read for example "China's Military: The PLA" by Richard H. Yang .

LoneRifle wrote:Still waiting on the non-existent evidence that China can actually win a war of conquest against Taiwan and USA/EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD. They would be blockaded and their economy starved to death while America and its allies curb-stomped every technologically significant asset the Chinese ever built in the past years with cruise missiles, stealth planes, and aircraft.

Or I have a better idea. Give me some evidence , that can prove , that Taiwan/USA are capable of defending against China´s offensive.

http://thediplomat.com/2010/08/taiwan-war-games/
According to a computerised simulation conducted by Taiwan’s military, China would capture the island’s capital in just three days if the two sides went to war.
How long would it take to move all US equpment to Taiwan ? And , dont ignore Chinese anti ship missiles and their SAMs.

China´s army has often exercises , which are simulating invasion of Taiwan.
For example : http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/17/inside-china-taiwan-invasion-exercise/?page=all

if China launched a surprise attack, and seized control of the entire island before USA could intervene, I dont think , there wouldnt be a real war. Some countries would be mad , but thats all.


North China Plain would be turned into a parking lot.

But no, that wouldn't be a real war. That would be thirty seconds of Trident D5s rising from the sea.
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Mark1157
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Mark1157 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 06:02

I am most certain that if China sinks ANY United States ship we would retaliate no-holds-bar. There's already this "American Exceptionalism" feeling of superiority in the US that is ingrained in our culture. The civilian population also has been educated (you can say "brainwashed") to regard "communists" with hostility and resentment.

Such an event would spark a war that would unite the nation against China- and a United States where all political parties (including the military and civilians) call for retaliation is a HUGE threat. (ie Pearl Harbor)

In addition to this, I believe the US Navy could significantly wipe out much of China's coastline assets. However, I still think China could take and hold Taiwan for a drawn-out length of time. The US Navy would experience some losses- but estimates of entire CBGs being wiped out is beyond reality.
-And even it did happen, the US has 11 more of those carrier groups.

The US would win by blockade and siege of the mainland. Disrupting major port cities where literally billions of people live would cause much political strife, chaos, destruction, and loss of civilian life. A full-blown conventional war places the odds against China.

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby katt » Tue 11 Feb 2014 06:05

You're using "American Exceptionalism", but I don't think you know what it means.
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Mark1157 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 06:21

katt wrote:You're using "American Exceptionalism", but I don't think you know what it means.


Its the view that America is "morally superior" due to its unique history, Constitution, etc.
This view sparks us to intervene in foreign disputes/wars because of our intentions to promote democracy and protect national assets.
Critics say the US is hypocritical for having this view when we prevent other countries from allowing them the right to self-determination. We value it here but prevent these rights elsewhere.
Also, this view has led us to the so-called World Policeman status.

So yes, I know what it means in a general sense.
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katt
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby katt » Tue 11 Feb 2014 06:52

Mark1157 wrote:
katt wrote:You're using "American Exceptionalism", but I don't think you know what it means.


Its the view that America is "morally superior" due to its unique history, Constitution, etc.


No, it isn't. American exceptionalism refers to it being the first truly modern, egalitarian republic, with few social and class distinctions (unlike the empires of Europe), great social mobility (a pauper ruling the nation? preposterous), and strong, morally liberal values.

It has nothing to do with any sort of ideas of innate "moral superiority" of the American people over others, any reasoning for America's leading role in world diplomacy (the idea is one of the founding myths of America, why has it only been a global power for a few decades?), and other nonsense; except by idiots like Jackson who perpetuated the drivel of Manifest Destiny and intertwined it with Christian Millennial concepts to create some sort of warped parody of American liberalism.

You have no idea what American Exceptionalism is, you're just taking the most literal meaning of the phrase.
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Excroat3 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 06:58

You guys should go read the bear and the dragon by Tom Clancy. Towards the end there is a part where the USN owns the PLAN, even getting close enough to the coast that they bomb it with the 5-inch guns on their cruisers.
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Graphic » Tue 11 Feb 2014 07:05

Apparently a "what if scenario" means "make up whatever sounds good and go with that" instead of any serious contemplation about the hypothetical conflict.
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