Islamic State/Coalition Bombing Mega Thread

ikalugin
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Re: Iraq, send in the tanks?

Postby ikalugin » Sun 15 Jun 2014 18:51

You can't provide any logical or rational argument to support the view of "that West did not really differentiate between those groupings or even admit that some of the more prominent groupings were radicalized", simply because there is no evidence for such a viewpoint.
Again: Such view is simply wrong.



Sure I can, but should I really provide evidence of western support behind Afghanistani anti Soviet combatants?

"West-Policy", "Western interests"...
You should really start thinking about your problems with anything European or American.

So you deny that Western parties protect their National (and allied) interests? Or did I misinterpret? I would be glad if this (possible) misunderstanding could be cleared up, if you so wish I will try to explain my position into greater depth on any specific topic related to this discussion.
Last edited by OpusTheFowl on Sun 15 Jun 2014 18:54, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: OT bits removed
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Thonar

Re: Iraq, send in the tanks?

Postby Thonar » Sun 15 Jun 2014 18:58

ikalugin wrote:
You can't provide any logical or rational argument to support the view of "that West did not really differentiate between those groupings or even admit that some of the more prominent groupings were radicalized", simply because there is no evidence for such a viewpoint.
Again: Such view is simply wrong.



Sure I can, but should I really provide evidence of western support behind Afghanistani anti Soviet combatants?


Yeah because Syria in the 2000s = Afghanistan in the 1980s... :roll:

You know: Cold-War is over.

"West-Policy", "Western interests"...
You should really start thinking about your problems with anything European or American.

So you deny that Western parties protect their National (and allied) interests? Or did I misinterpret? I would be glad if this (possible) misunderstanding could be cleared up, if you so wish I will try to explain my position into greater depth on any specific topic related to this discussion.


Because "western parties" are all having the same interests... :roll:


Again: With no true evidence on your side that "western" governments don't differentiate between the different groupings in Syria, I'll will answer you in the same quality... ohh... but the problem is: There is not such an evidence and if so it is probably taken out of context and made up...

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Romiros
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Re: Iraq, send in the tanks?

Postby Romiros » Sun 15 Jun 2014 19:07

Thonar wrote: Cold-War is over.


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katt
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Re: Iraq, send in the tanks?

Postby katt » Sun 15 Jun 2014 19:10

Thonar wrote:
ikalugin wrote:
You can't provide any logical or rational argument to support the view of "that West did not really differentiate between those groupings or even admit that some of the more prominent groupings were radicalized", simply because there is no evidence for such a viewpoint.
Again: Such view is simply wrong.



Sure I can, but should I really provide evidence of western support behind Afghanistani anti Soviet combatants?


Yeah because Syria in the 2000s = Afghanistan in the 1980s... :roll:

You know: Cold-War is over.


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ikalugin
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Re: Iraq, send in the tanks?

Postby ikalugin » Sun 15 Jun 2014 19:19

Yeah because Syria in the 2000s = Afghanistan in the 1980s... :roll:

Because both were funded by Saudis and publically supported by Western media as well as governments.

You know: Cold-War is over.

National interests remain, as do the means of executing those.

Because "western parties" are all having the same interests... :roll:

Because current Western foreign policy is dominated by USA and Atlantic Solidarity. Not to mention that Western elites are deeply integrated.

Again: With no true evidence on your side that "western" governments don't differentiate between the different groupings in Syria, I'll will answer you in the same quality... ohh... but the problem is: There is not such an evidence and if so it is probably taken out of context...

Sure, you could have ones on Syria too if you want.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/01/220029.htm
Looks like the non lethal humanitarian aid to moderate opposition:
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ikalugin
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Re: Iraq, send in the tanks?

Postby ikalugin » Sun 15 Jun 2014 19:21

Though my point was different, my point was that Western Parties provided political and media support to Syrian rebels, while Saudis provided bulk funding.
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tablefootie
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Re: Iraq, send in the tanks?

Postby tablefootie » Sun 15 Jun 2014 19:30

Reading the earlier posts really made me hope they make a Wargame : Executive Outcomes


Regarding the current topic :

The Cold War has ended but people still rivalries remain, not just between US / Western Europe vs Russia. Also don't forget all the other rivalries that has been overshadowed by the Cold War espacially in the Mid-East where people almost always hate each other for one reason or another.

But one lesson from the Cold War - propping up unpopular goverments seldom works out

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Re: Iraq, send in the tanks?

Postby DoktorvonWer » Sun 15 Jun 2014 19:36

I personally would like to see the NSWP intervene.

I know they're all in NATO now, but... Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and half of Germany should step in to help Iraq out, in my opinion.
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Re: Iraq, send in the tanks?

Postby praslovan » Sun 15 Jun 2014 20:07

Anyhow... they apparently managed to stop them infid... insurgents from reaching Bagdad... with the help of Kurd and Shiite militias.

And how to better picture it than with a polandball comic?
http://i.imgur.com/OFjQ2kr.png

Rorschach wrote:If the Iraqi army is incapable, then they should not be propped up by PMCs, but rather by other nations armies, such as the USA, or Iran.

You are disregarding one big point here. Or two actually.

1.) No army will come to help you just for the sake of helping you.

2.) Other nation army allegiance is to its own country and its politics first then to the country they "help", which can lead to conflict of interests, while mercs are here solely for money and to honour their contract made with you.

Iran can send help. But not because they are kind hearted, but because they want to protect their interests in the region. Same with US. ... have you heard any other nation is making a move to help Iraq? France or Germany? Italy? ... nope. Because they don't care. That looney Blair is barking something on TV but no one cares about him any more.

So what am I saying? Best way in my opinion for Iraq to retain their sovereignty is to temporarily hire high tire PMC... not to substitute their army... but to train and fill the empty spots for them until they manage to grow their own army in a proper way. That will enable them to take control in their hands while being only Iraqi and not needing to fly another flag next to their for the next X amount of time.

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Re: Iraq, send in the tanks?

Postby AlmightyTallest » Sun 15 Jun 2014 20:51

More footage.

This is June 14 video of Mi-35's engaging ISIS around the Mosul area.

9 minutes long.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3da_1402773273

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