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Re: Combat Mission - Black Sea

Posted: Sat 3 Jan 2015 19:45
by Shrike
Works for the Austrians
Spoiler : :
Image

Re: Combat Mission - Black Sea

Posted: Sat 3 Jan 2015 19:55
by Killertomato
Works for the Austrians


I always thought that looked damn cool.

Re: Combat Mission - Black Sea

Posted: Sat 3 Jan 2015 20:27
by panzersaurkrautwefer
And:

1. Likely cost less than fiddy million to develop.

2. Likely actually is possible to look sharp in, unlike ACUs.

Re: Combat Mission - Black Sea

Posted: Sat 3 Jan 2015 21:45
by BTR
panzersaurkrautwefer wrote:And:

1. Likely cost less than fiddy million to develop.

2. Likely actually is possible to look sharp in, unlike ACUs.


-Everyone knows that's not good for the economy :lol:

Re: Combat Mission - Black Sea

Posted: Sat 3 Jan 2015 22:29
by Darth-Lampshade
panzersaurkrautwefer wrote:I think across the board, for every country that new camo patterns are the biggest scam in the whole military industrial complex. Something generally green works pretty well in green places. Something generally tan works well in tan places.

Mission accomplished. All these weirdo digital patterns, different swirls of grey and blue etc don't make a soldier somehow go all Predator and merge with the background. The reality is if the Soldier is on the move, congrats he can be seen. If he's not moving, unless he's behind something, or in pretty dense concealment, congrats he can be seen. The point of camo realistically is to make the soldier not stand out as much when he's in imperfect concealment.

Realistically I think the old OD drab uniforms weren't any worse camo than UCP or even scorpion at this point. At least they were durable.


Camo (as opposed to pure olive drab) helps break up an outline. These aren't advanced multi-million dollar precision guided weapons, they're uniforms. I don't see cost as the problem, the problem is that somehow we've screwed it up in such an astounding manner and somehow ended up with seven or eight different patterns in active use among the different services. It's just stupid.

The only issue I see with the BDUs is that it seems like another 50 nations copied it, which could present a problem in-theory if we're ever fighting one of those countries.

Part of the whole "transformational" nonsense is that one camo pattern needs to do everything. Which really is the primary reason for the UCP mess. Multicam/Scorpion is better but there are still scenarios where it stands out.

I don't know what to think of this company pitching their US4CES series pattern but they have written some very interesting stuff.
http://www.hyperstealth.com/camo-improvement/index.html

Re: Combat Mission - Black Sea

Posted: Sat 3 Jan 2015 23:26
by panzersaurkrautwefer
Camo (as opposed to pure olive drab) helps break up an outline.


That was sort of my point with the:

The point of camo realistically is to make the soldier not stand out as much when he's in imperfect concealment.


comment. It he's laying low in the brush, a camo pattern will help him blend in reasonably well. If he's standing up in a forest, he's still going to stand out fairly effectively. And to that end while camo is not as expensive as building the F-35, it's still millions of dollars in R and D to effectively match the effectiveness of something developed in the early 1980's, or in the case of UCP, do it significantly worse.

Re: Combat Mission - Black Sea

Posted: Sun 4 Jan 2015 00:36
by Darth-Lampshade
Meh, millions of dollars isn't much to the government these days. If they could bring all of the services down to 3-4 standard camo patterns from whatever we're at now it would be worth it.

Re: Combat Mission - Black Sea

Posted: Sun 4 Jan 2015 00:47
by Killertomato
Darth-Lampshade wrote:Meh, millions of dollars isn't much to the government these days. If they could bring all of the services down to 3-4 standard camo patterns from whatever we're at now it would be worth it.


They might as well just yolo back down to Scorpion. The USAF is going to give it to airmen who actually have to enter combat zones, after all. Get the Navy and the Marines in on it and we'll finally be back where we were twenty years ago.

Re: Combat Mission - Black Sea

Posted: Sun 4 Jan 2015 01:02
by frostypooky
i thought Congress made a call that there was a 2016 or 2017 deadline for common deployment camo.

i got out of the air force a bit before the ABU was mandatory. the low-care features were nice, without all the velcro crap. it was notably heavier than ACUs though, had to wear those at the DMZ and it was like going from light sweater to t-shirt.

however, the fugly (and worthless) ABU camo, ball caps, unit patches were the reasons i wore mostly BDU. unit patches were so dank, and the ball cap captured the spirit of my character while allowing a refreshing spring breeze to waft through my hair.

edit:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014 ... iform.html

congress wants common camo by 2018

Re: Combat Mission - Black Sea

Posted: Sun 4 Jan 2015 01:04
by Killertomato
frostypooky wrote:i thought Congress made a call that there was a 2016 or 2017 deadline for common deployment camo.


I think congress mandated no more entirely new camos unless the proposing service can get everyone to pick it up.

That's half the reason Army went back to Scorpion, which is an Army-owned thing.