Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

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Re: Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

Postby BTR » Sun 4 Jan 2015 20:59

I heard about *actual history from Lone :lol: , including the fact that America knows our history better than us. The fact is there, a large majority of the population voted to keep the USSR.
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Re: Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

Postby Nequit » Sun 4 Jan 2015 21:05

If someone wants to educate yourself about Soviet Union and it's collapse this article is a good place to start.

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Re: Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

Postby Romiros » Sun 4 Jan 2015 21:07

jmpveg22 wrote: It is January 1st 1988...

Gorbachev already in charge, so
Hollywood Myth wrote:doomed


BTR wrote:I heard about *actual history from Lone :lol: , including the fact that America knows our history better than us. The fact is there, a large majority of the population voted to keep the USSR.
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Re: Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

Postby jmpveg22 » Sun 4 Jan 2015 21:26

BTR wrote:I heard about *actual history from Lone :lol: , including the fact that America knows our history better than us. The fact is there, a large majority of the population voted to keep the USSR.


As an American i am embarrassed by dudes/dudettes like him :/ ... i mean stuff like that perpetuates the common negative/simplistic stereotypes that are in no way reflective of such a diverse and dynamic country/culture. Personally, i find that only certain regional and educational demographics are prone to acting in such a way in the USA.

You can almost hear the country music and banjos ;)

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Re: Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

Postby Killertomato » Sun 4 Jan 2015 22:30

By '88 it was waaaaaay too late. It was probably doable in '78, though it wouldn't have been done because there was no Soviet Deng Xiaoping.

Gorbachev tried to have his Soviet cake and eat it too, and that didn't work. He didn't go far enough, and the union fell apart because of it. I suppose if Andropov had some kind of magic life-extension engine, he could've kept the union together by force until it popped like a cork and we got Russian Civil War Part 2: electric boogaloo.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, there are quite a few similarities between the British Empire and the USSR, the biggest difference being that the Empire collapsed due to WWII, not economics.


In this case, WWII = economics. It more or less ruined the British economy.

1 - Since the first two waves of perestroika reforms (1985-1986/1987-1988) did not succeed as planned - pause the program, and depose the person in charge (Gorbi). Replace him and his crew in KPSS with someone more traditional. For the lack of better alternatives - players from GKChP of 1991.

2 - Cut back on freedom of press and art (sorry Kino and others) to repress dissidents being the stars of the show.

3 - Pull out of Afghanistan.

4 - Negotiate limited and planned capitalism for PACT members and use their countries as an actual economic buffer zone. Pull back a sizable amount of forces from Germany, split them and station a portion of them in several other countries to aid local governments. Split Czechoslovakia, establishing two friendly regimes. Sell all that under "Ending cold war tentions, economic change and "modernization of communism".

5 - Urgently re-establish ties with China and ask advisory notes on how to replicate "Friendly Socialism". Namely a) establish limited private ownership with government support and b) open to foreign investment. Sell all as in point 4.

6 - Cut military spending. Use the remaining portion of forces from Germany to replace outdated equipment in-land, sell/lease/trade older equipment to friendly African and other regimes. Reduce the army to 2.5m.


Point one contradicts points four, five, and six. Those guys were never going to institute those reforms. They probably wouldn't have ditched Afghanistan either.

It's extremely debatable that the Eastern European countries would've been content with point four too.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

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Re: Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

Postby BTR » Sun 4 Jan 2015 22:38

Notice how I said more traditional, rather than just traditional. Some form of reforms was needed.
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Re: Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

Postby Countess Bathory » Sun 4 Jan 2015 22:40

BTR wrote:I heard about *actual history from Lone :lol: , including the fact that America knows our history better than us. The fact is there, a large majority of the population voted to keep the USSR.

If it's any consolation Panzer was banned from the forum, so one half of the Deadly Duo has been cut down in battle.
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Re: Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

Postby Killertomato » Sun 4 Jan 2015 22:48

BTR wrote:Notice how I said more traditional, rather than just traditional. Some form of reforms was needed.


Well, yes, but what reforms? I will maintain that '88 was far past time for changes.

All of your other reforms probably would've worked in '78, since (a) things were not as bad in Eastern Europe, (b) the price of oil was still high, (c) the level of ethnic nationalism among the minorities was much lower, and (d) Carter and other detente-friendly western leaders were in office.

In fact, had Gorbachev somehow taken over then instead of in '85, even his reforms might've worked.

They would've been able to skip out on the boat anchor that was Afghanistan too.

If it's any consolation Panzer was banned from the forum, so one half of the Deadly Duo has been cut down in battle.


When did Panzer get banned?
Last edited by Killertomato on Sun 4 Jan 2015 22:51, edited 1 time in total.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

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Re: Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

Postby BTR » Sun 4 Jan 2015 22:49

Countess Bathory wrote:If it's any consolation Panzer was banned from the forum, so one half of the Deadly Duo has been cut down in battle.


I never had any beef with any of them, but people come, people go.
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Re: Thought Experiment: How the USSR could have survived

Postby Countess Bathory » Sun 4 Jan 2015 22:56

Killertomato wrote:
BTR wrote:Notice how I said more traditional, rather than just traditional. Some form of reforms was needed.


Well, yes, but what reforms? I will maintain that '88 was far past time for changes.

All of your other reforms probably would've worked in '78, since (a) things were not as bad in Eastern Europe, (b) the price of oil was still high, (c) the level of ethnic nationalism among the minorities was much lower, and (d) Carter and other detente-friendly western leaders were in office.

In fact, had Gorbachev somehow taken over then instead of in '85, even his reforms might've worked.

They would've been able to skip out on the boat anchor that was Afghanistan too.

If it's any consolation Panzer was banned from the forum, so one half of the Deadly Duo has been cut down in battle.


When did Panzer get banned?

MadMat did it in the "French Overhaul" topic.
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