India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

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Romiros
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Re: India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

Postby Romiros » Sun 19 Apr 2015 12:03

nWODT_Niack wrote:
GBNATO wrote:I assumed he just meant data sharing and networking, but that is by no means unique to the Su-30 so who knows :? Although judging by the size of the bloody thing I wouldn't be surprised if there was a command bunker complete with general staff inside the nose!

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Makes the Squall look like a damn toy by comparison.

FYI, size difference and all, the Rafale lifts 9 tons payload, versus 8 for the Su-35 (couldn't find numbers for the Su-30MKI) ; and 14/13 pylons versus 12. The Su has the Rafale beat on range however, with its 4500 km on ferry range versus 3800 for the Rafale.

So most of the size must be fuel tanks.

Here goes the tricky thing, like with F-16. Is this range for Rafale with or without external fuel tanks and with what payload? Su-30MKI takes 9640 kilo of fuel vs 4500 kilo in Rafale M internal fuel tanks (7500 with external fuel tanks).
Suchoi claims that Su-30mki can carry 16 FAB500, so 9 tons isn't a problem.
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su30mk/lth/
That's a problem in comparison of Russian\Soviet planes vs West. Russian\Soviet manufacturers claims numbers calculated by different system.
We can approximately calculate real performance by taking difference between empty weight and maximum take-off weight - it's our fuel and payload.
Su-30mki as wiki claims can take 20.4 tons of everything. With max internal fuel weight of 9.6 tonnes you have 10.8 tonnes for all your pylons
Rafale as Dassault aviation web-site claims can take 14.5 tonnes of everything. With max. internal fuel weight of 4.5 tonnes you have 10.5 for all pylons. But if you use external fuel tanks you have 7 tonnes with limited payload variants - main pylons are unavailable now.

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Re: India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

Postby Darkmil » Sun 19 Apr 2015 13:41

Romiros wrote:
Spoiler : :
Here goes the tricky thing, like with F-16. Is this range for Rafale with or without external fuel tanks and with what payload? Su-30MKI takes 9640 kilo of fuel vs 4500 kilo in Rafale M internal fuel tanks (7500 with external fuel tanks).
Suchoi claims that Su-30mki can carry 16 FAB500, so 9 tons isn't a problem.
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su30mk/lth/
That's a problem in comparison of Russian\Soviet planes vs West. Russian\Soviet manufacturers claims numbers calculated by different system.
We can approximately calculate real performance by taking difference between empty weight and maximum take-off weight - it's our fuel and payload.
Su-30mki as wiki claims can take 20.4 tons of everything. With max internal fuel weight of 9.6 tonnes you have 10.8 tonnes for all your pylons
Rafale as Dassault aviation web-site claims can take 14.5 tonnes of everything. With max. internal fuel weight of 4.5 tonnes you have 10.5 for all pylons. But if you use external fuel tanks you have 7 tonnes with limited payload variants - main pylons are unavailable now.

Keep in mind that M88 are very fuel efficient so not having as much fuel isn't much of a problem (though the Su-30 range is still better). So yes the Rafale carry less fuel but uses less fuel too.
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Re: India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

Postby nWODT_Niack » Sun 19 Apr 2015 20:09

Spoiler : :
Romiros wrote:
nWODT_Niack wrote:
GBNATO wrote:I assumed he just meant data sharing and networking, but that is by no means unique to the Su-30 so who knows :? Although judging by the size of the bloody thing I wouldn't be surprised if there was a command bunker complete with general staff inside the nose!

Image

Makes the Squall look like a damn toy by comparison.

FYI, size difference and all, the Rafale lifts 9 tons payload, versus 8 for the Su-35 (couldn't find numbers for the Su-30MKI) ; and 14/13 pylons versus 12. The Su has the Rafale beat on range however, with its 4500 km on ferry range versus 3800 for the Rafale.

So most of the size must be fuel tanks.

Here goes the tricky thing, like with F-16. Is this range for Rafale with or without external fuel tanks and with what payload? Su-30MKI takes 9640 kilo of fuel vs 4500 kilo in Rafale M internal fuel tanks (7500 with external fuel tanks).
Suchoi claims that Su-30mki can carry 16 FAB500, so 9 tons isn't a problem.
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su30mk/lth/
That's a problem in comparison of Russian\Soviet planes vs West. Russian\Soviet manufacturers claims numbers calculated by different system.
We can approximately calculate real performance by taking difference between empty weight and maximum take-off weight - it's our fuel and payload.
Su-30mki as wiki claims can take 20.4 tons of everything. With max internal fuel weight of 9.6 tonnes you have 10.8 tonnes for all your pylons
Rafale as Dassault aviation web-site claims can take 14.5 tonnes of everything. With max. internal fuel weight of 4.5 tonnes you have 10.5 for all pylons. But if you use external fuel tanks you have 7 tonnes with limited payload variants - main pylons are unavailable now.


Nope. Ferry range is max fuel, no payload. No possible confusion.
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Re: India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

Postby Corsair » Mon 20 Apr 2015 22:23

Romiros wrote:Here goes the tricky thing, like with F-16. Is this range for Rafale with or without external fuel tanks and with what payload? Su-30MKI takes 9640 kilo of fuel vs 4500 kilo in Rafale M internal fuel tanks (7500 with external fuel tanks).

9,7 tons with standard fuel tanks, 7,7 with supersonic.

But if you use external fuel tanks you have 7 tonnes with limited payload variants - main pylons are unavailable now.

These "main" pylons were precisely designed to carry fuel tanks. The Rafale was designed to carry both fuel tanks and weapons without a great loss of payload : Rafale can carry 2 or 3 cruise missiles with respectively 3 or 2 fuel tanks. Such a capability is unmatched in the West, and rather close to what Sukhois can do (typical Su-30 strike loadout is 4 Kh-59 I think.. which are smaller and lighter than SCALPs).

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Re: India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

Postby D-M » Thu 30 Apr 2015 10:08

http://www.europe1.fr/economie/rafale-l ... ar-2441207

Qatar is going to sign a contract for 24 Rafales with an option to buy 12 more.
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Re: India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Thu 30 Apr 2015 11:18

Soon, everybody will fly Rafales!
8-)

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Re: India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

Postby Vulcan 607 » Thu 30 Apr 2015 12:44

[EUG]MadMat wrote:Soon, everybody will fly Rafales!
8-)


Yes because so many fly them now as opposed to the typhoon.

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Re: India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

Postby SpeisCheese » Thu 30 Apr 2015 13:12

Vulcan 607 wrote:
[EUG]MadMat wrote:Soon, everybody will fly Rafales!
8-)


Yes because so many fly them now as opposed to the typhoon.

Qatar wants Rafales now too

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Re: India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

Postby D-M » Thu 30 Apr 2015 13:22

Vulcan 607 wrote:
[EUG]MadMat wrote:Soon, everybody will fly Rafales!
8-)


Yes because so many fly them now as opposed to the typhoon.
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Re: India inks a deal for supply of 24 Rafale aircrafts

Postby nWODT_Niack » Thu 30 Apr 2015 13:33

D-M wrote:http://www.europe1.fr/economie/rafale-la-france-sur-le-point-de-signer-un-contrat-avec-le-qatar-2441207

Qatar is going to sign a contract for 24 Rafales with an option to buy 12 more.

I only hope this means they will be able to open a second line at the Mérignac plant.
Last edited by nWODT_Niack on Fri 1 May 2015 03:33, edited 2 times in total.
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