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Re: US, EURO, Asian or African?!? cars?

Posted: Fri 29 Apr 2016 03:15
by Megiddo
You're probably right in terms of quick shiftings and efficiency...

But the pleasure and technicity when driving hard is lost. Except maybe with a full manual/sequential option, you don't have the same kind of control over the engine breaking effect when down-shifting, and for sure you'll never learn how to master some glorious techniques such as the "talon-pointe" (the right foot breaking and accelerating at the same time when you clutch and downshift just before cornering, to keep a good RPM, recover adherence or even loose it by under-steering if needed, and go out of a curve at maximum efficiency)...

A gearbox computer will take the optimal engine values like current speed, torque and maximum HP output to determine the best gear, but it can't anticipate or compute how you want to place your car in a corner for example. Such a computer can't feel inertia and transfers of mass...sometimes a lower gear with high RPM are better in a corner, sometimes a higher gear and lower RPM are better to gain speed while keeping road holding, when you're at full charge. From this point of view, human brains are immensely superior.

But yeah, i understand your argument. Human pleasure and brief moments of perfection vs cold computer efficiency...

Re: US, EURO, Asian or African?!? cars?

Posted: Fri 29 Apr 2016 03:59
by delfo
Mike wrote:Many automatics are better than want most people can do with a manual nowadays.


And in cities above the 1 million mark.

Re: US, EURO, Asian or African?!? cars?

Posted: Fri 29 Apr 2016 09:24
by CornProducts
Mike wrote:Many automatics are better than want most people can do with a manual nowadays.

Manuals still beat out auto's in acceleration. Doing a paper on that now actually. Mixed when it comes to fuel economy, slight edge to automatics, noticeably better emissions with automatics too. But manuals still reign supreme in mechanical efficiency 8-), even with interruptions in torque do to shifting.

I haven't driven a new or sporty automatic in a while, but I feel I can slam those gears in just about as fast, and have the added bonus of being able to look ahead. Although now they have those "flappy paddle" gearboxes too, so the topic gets muddier.

Re: US, EURO, Asian or African?!? cars?

Posted: Fri 29 Apr 2016 11:04
by Grabbed_by_the_Spets
I'd imagine German Auto's being more efficient than manuals, US wouldn't care and Japanese would just make a the motor more efficient.

However, having learned to drive a manual all my life, I can't stand automatics, I hate having machines make decisions for you, I have with computers and video games too. I've also had my left leg hit the brake paddle in my fathers work wagon a few times looking for the clutch a couple of times, that was embarrassing!

I also think automatic makes people worse drivers. More than a few of the near misses I've had were from people in automatics who just slammed cruise control on and are paying attention to other things (Phones, make-up etc.). At least in a manual you're constantly having to listen to what your car is telling you. I also hate softroaders for the exact same reason!

Re: US, EURO, Asian or African?!? cars?

Posted: Fri 29 Apr 2016 11:32
by nWODT_Niack
Mike wrote:Many automatics are better than want most people can do with a manual nowadays.

Define "Better".

Paddle-actuated true DCTs get a pass, on account of their performance and because the driver still retains control of the gearing (most are still a maintenance moneydrain though).

Other than that, manuals are better than straight automatics on almost every single metric. Chiefly, because they allow better control of the vehicle. Since they are more engaging, they are also more fun. They force the driver to plan ahead. They are mechanically lighter, simpler, cheaper.

I've driven modern automatics on rental vehicles for some semi-long trips, and i wanted to kill myself. I hate control being taken away from me. I hate that they upshift too quickly and downshift too slowly (the bias is mostly set up that way), so that you never have a reserve of power at your disposal. I hated the faux semi-automatic mode some of them had, with a wimpy paddle shifting that only lets you select a gear in the very specific window it has in mind.
Unless i loose a leg, you will never catch me buying an automatic.

Re: US, EURO, Asian or African?!? cars?

Posted: Fri 29 Apr 2016 18:22
by CornProducts
Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:
I also think automatic makes people worse drivers. More than a few of the near misses I've had were from people in automatics who just slammed cruise control on and are paying attention to other things (Phones, make-up etc.). At least in a manual you're constantly having to listen to what your car is telling you. I also hate softroaders for the exact same reason!

I bet we could at least halve the number of texting related accidents if everyone had to drive manual. :D

Re: US, EURO, Asian or African?!? cars?

Posted: Fri 29 Apr 2016 20:48
by Shrike
My car doesn't need gas or electricity. Just got to keep the chain oiled and bring enough water for a warm day.

Re: US, EURO, Asian or African?!? cars?

Posted: Fri 29 Apr 2016 21:44
by Bullfrog
Mike wrote:Many automatics are better than want most people can do with a manual nowadays.


Theft prevention?

Re: US, EURO, Asian or African?!? cars?

Posted: Fri 29 Apr 2016 22:58
by CornProducts
Bullfrog wrote:
Mike wrote:Many automatics are better than want most people can do with a manual nowadays.


Theft prevention?

Ha, yes.

Re: US, EURO, Asian or African?!? cars?

Posted: Wed 11 May 2016 23:42
by varis
orcbuster wrote:All the japanese cars I've driven had horrible suspension.

Currently driving a mercedes C. Insanely comfy ride.


Which year did you try them? Prior to 2008 or so I might agree with you, and there's other weak points too. Is comfort the main criteria?

Somehow I didn't enjoy Mercedes. Suspension was too soft and comfy, esp. on the A model (tried in 2008 :p). E was of course much better and far more comfortable than regular jp cars, but for the price I'd expect more and the car didn't have much personality.

Mitsubishi's regular Lancer was quite nice, suspension too. Too bad they ruined it with engine options (1.5 and 1.8 liters) in Finland. Retailer has been about to go bankrupt a few years too, sad thing.

Anybody tried Subaru BRZ? Interesting concept with naturally aspirated engine and I hear it's really fun to drive. Over here it's some 10 000 euros cheaper than the near-identical Nissan...

Edit: Did you guys with Subarus enjoy it so far?

BTW I drive japanese, though I think "best" cars are German (well... ok... BMW) or Swedish. But this one is well suited to my purpose at the moment. Japanese is a different world anyway, depends on what you want in the end and they can be a lot of fun for a low cost. If looks was the only thing in a car and money didn't matter, I'd go Jaguar. When I talk with my uncle about best car it's only about reliability, and Honda...