Indonesian Fighter Procurement

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kvnrthr
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Re: Indonesian Fighter Procurement

Postby kvnrthr » Mon 27 Apr 2015 07:50

jmpveg22 wrote:1 Vs 1 Eurofighter kicks the SU-35s ass... however the SU-35 costs less than half of one Eurofighter. So if you are smart... you can easily utilize your funds to come up with an adequate strategy to kick the Eurofighters ass if we are talking about utilizing the same amount of funds.

The question should really be:
"you have a $250million dollar yearly procurement budget... and an additional $500million dollar yearly operating budget. what are you going to do to maximize your ability?" (played out over a 10 year span)

That to me is a far more interesting topic than these tirelessly played out "who would win" discussions. Because if you think about it... it is really the ONLY question that Really matters for most of these markets we are talking about.

Just my opinion though...


That's a fair point. Our defense budget is low and chipped away at by corruption, and I don't see it going up drastically any time soon. Su-35 is still more than a match for any jet in the region (perhaps barring the F-35) and it is about two thirds of the Eurofighter's price, money that is also urgently needed elsewhere.

Am I correct in saying that the Su-35 is qualitatively superior to RAAF Hornets and Singaporean F-15 (as for pilot quality, let's not talk about that just yet)?

Also, is it really less than one half of the Eurofighter? From what I've read the Typhoon is about $100 million while the Su-35 is around $60 million.
Hoping for a better next-gen Wargame and new engine in a few years...
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Re: Indonesian Fighter Procurement

Postby Corsair » Mon 27 Apr 2015 08:42

RAAF F/A-18E and RSAF F-15SG have nothing to envy to Su-35. IMHO, they are at worst on par.

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Re: Indonesian Fighter Procurement

Postby BeyondNight » Mon 27 Apr 2015 08:53

Corsair wrote:RAAF F/A-18E and RSAF F-15SG have nothing to envy to Su-35. IMHO, they are at worst on par.


Pretty sure the RAAF Super Hornets would have the edge in EW at least.

Also Asraams and HOBS capability + JHMCS means itd still be a nasty opponent.
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Re: Indonesian Fighter Procurement

Postby Vulcan 607 » Mon 27 Apr 2015 10:20

BeyondNight wrote:
Corsair wrote:RAAF F/A-18E and RSAF F-15SG have nothing to envy to Su-35. IMHO, they are at worst on par.


Pretty sure the RAAF Super Hornets would have the edge in EW at least.

Also Asraams and HOBS capability + JHMCS means itd still be a nasty opponent.


Not to mention any Aussie hornet lost will be replaced by the yanks thanks to that mutual defence treaty

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Re: Indonesian Fighter Procurement

Postby GBNATO » Mon 27 Apr 2015 12:17

I wonder how ASRAAM stacks up when compared to MICA and R-73.
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Re: Indonesian Fighter Procurement

Postby nWODT_Niack » Mon 27 Apr 2015 12:46

kvnrthr wrote:Let's try something different maybe. Su-35 vs Rafale/Eurofighter, which one would win and why?

Rafale vs Su-35 did happen in a technical evaluation for 40 planes in 2002 in South Korea. The Rafale was ranked better than the Su-35 by the South Korea military, but in the end both were disregarded in favor of the F-15K:

Flightglobal wrote:The Dassault Rafale and Sukhoi Su-35 were offered in the 2002 competition, when the F-15K was chosen, even though the Rafale came out tops in the technical evaluation.


http://wayback.archive.org/web/20121105 ... 07-218740/
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Killertomato
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Re: Indonesian Fighter Procurement

Postby Killertomato » Mon 27 Apr 2015 15:02

The F-15SG is probably the best strike eagle out there, IMO it will be a match- though I always think of the Strike Eagle as more equivalent to the Su-34.
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Re: Indonesian Fighter Procurement

Postby Corsair » Mon 27 Apr 2015 18:10

GBNATO wrote:I wonder how ASRAAM stacks up when compared to MICA and R-73.

MICA really don't play in the same league. It combines caracheristics of both BVR missiles and close air combat missiles.
Range wise, it's somewhere between AMRAAM and R-77 - so nowhere near ASRAAM and even more for R-73.

Now when it comes to close combat - and I suppose this is what you wanted to compare -, it is able to whistand a 50 G load factor thanks to its TVC, and it is probably the fastest among ASRAAM and R-73. As for the ASRAAM, i've got the impression that is is fairly ranged but nowhere as maneuverable as its competitors (no TVC, small control surfaces).

While ASRAAM has LOAL capability just like MICA IR, it is not equipped with data-link and relies on inertial guidance only, thus resulting in poor performances on LOAL shots against a maneuverable target. MICA on the other hand, features a datalink and its course can be updated in flight, just like ARMAAM or 9X block II.

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Re: Indonesian Fighter Procurement

Postby D-M » Mon 27 Apr 2015 18:26

I 've always been wondering, you seem quite knowledgeable (as per the amount of obscure acronyms you use). Is it just some kind of passion or do you work in this industry ?
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Re: Indonesian Fighter Procurement

Postby Cheesehead » Mon 27 Apr 2015 18:40

Killertomato wrote:The F-15SG is probably the best strike eagle out there, IMO it will be a match- though I always think of the Strike Eagle as more equivalent to the Su-34.


A SU-35 versus any version of the -15E wouldn't go too good. They loose a little maneuverability performance close range since they have a little extra weight and most countries pilots wouldn't spend much time doing training for A-A warfare compared to a dedicated interceptor who has the primary mission of A-A with secondary A-G.
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