2015 General Election

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Mitchverr
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Mitchverr » Wed 6 May 2015 23:25

As in employee protections :roll:

What happened to top 4 employers in the region with NO attempt to rectify the situation beyond "meh".

Mining industry - gone because short term profit, doesnt attempt to properly even sell off to private groups just gone.
Fishing industry - Common Fisheries Policy 1983, guess what happened to the vibrant fishing industry in the north east, (i will give you a hint, the fishing fleet is a tiny bit of what it once was and the "fish and chips" in what were my local pubs and chippies often came from the north sea not to far away where we once fished, but was caught by spanish or dutch or even italian ships sometimes, taken all the way back to their countries then sold to us, again, no attempt to rectify the massive damage to the local economy)
Military - a massive proportion of the armed forces has always been recruited from the North, cut the military spending, collapsed (its why a large amount of the army was in fact based in the north of England iirc out of her time, to give some boon to the economy and to help those who served be "close to home")
Steel - went the same way as the mining industry, her government loosened the binding of contracts, the recent tories destroyed it, foreign companies could just ignore what contracts said, take things and leave.

There were also plenty of other hits, but those are the biggies, of which 2 were not government run, 3 could easily have been rectified with proper care and all 4 were vital to the regions economy.
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby LoneRifle » Wed 6 May 2015 23:31

Find new industries to base your local economy around. I'm not saying it doesn't suck or hurt, I'm saying if you don't evolve to a changing world, you die.

NC's Tobacco and Woodworking/Furniture industries were utterly destroyed in the 90's, but we rebuilt around Tech and Banking. Our biggest steel manufacturer (NUCOR) stopped producing steel in a traditional sense and switched to scrap metal recycling. Just part of life. Evolve or die.
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Mitchverr » Wed 6 May 2015 23:34

LoneRifle wrote:Find new industries to base your local economy around. I'm not saying it doesn't suck or hurt, I'm saying if you don't evolve to a changing world, you die.

NC's Tobacco and Woodworking/Furniture industries was utterly destroyed in the 90's, but we rebuilt around Tech and Banking. Just part of life.


Actually fun fact, some groups attempted to do that, her party gave assistance to companies to form in the south in london, guess where they moved to. :lol:

The problem is though, when you send a region into massive unemployment with the systematic destruction of all its major employers, it requires government support to bring investment because nobody is going to go to a place with no money, no jobs, no hope and say "im going to found my company in this area" when they can easily just go 300-400 miles to the capital. The region had literally nothing to do with any other industry, you cant just expect people to change en mass on their own without help (i mean the education level wasnt high for the time either to be fair, they pretty much made it so smart people moved away when possible)
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Wed 6 May 2015 23:37

LoneRifle wrote:Yea, I'm sure those Falklands folks hate her guts for saving them and reminding the world the UK still had teeth. To bad shes gone.

Mmm the typical "she took away my state job and didn't tax the rich enough" vibe is going again. Pity. But hey, you guys could be like Greece now, I'm sure you'd fit right in with them, maybe even demanding war reps form the Germans.


Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot you somehow know more than people living in the Commonwealth about how to run the Commonwealth!

Oh yes, lets just ignore how Thatchernomics and it's trickle down policy not only set workers rights back 20 years and created rampant poverty within the UK and NZ, to the point where many economists linked them to the main causation of poverty within New Zealand. But yes "Muh rich tax" and all that!

Let's ignore her rampant fear-mongering and shady backdoor dealings because she manage to win a small scale war, that wasn't even in her content, largely described by the usually supportive British media as "Two bald men fighting over a comb" but hey, she showed that "Britain has claws" or some s**t.

Everything about her was a joke to the common man, from her destructive policies, to her obsession with the super-wealthy, to her mufti-million dollar funeral which the taxpayer had to fork out for despite nobody wanting to pay for, which probably put King-Jong-Il's to shame!

Go watch some more Iron Lady, I'm sure that's all the blind f**king praise you'll ever need to believe in Thatcher, don't go repeating what that says to a British commoner though, especially ones who came from mining and production towns! Especially if you value being able to look out your left eye for the next three weeks.
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Mitchverr
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Mitchverr » Wed 6 May 2015 23:43

Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:British commoner though


Oi we be the workin class you lardi dar posh sod :lol:

Cant all be George Whitebread either lone :lol:
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby LoneRifle » Wed 6 May 2015 23:50

She must have done something right. After all, she was in power for a decade+. But I'm sure she only represented the Uber Rich during all that time, who controlled the majority of the votes or what not. No common folks voted for her at all.

*Yawn* at the rest. She did a lot right to get under so many leftists skin. That they would go to such extraordinary lengths to hate on her.
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Wed 6 May 2015 23:52

Mitchverr wrote:
Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:British commoner though


Oi we be the workin class you lardi dar posh sod :lol:

Cant all be George Whitebread either lone :lol:


It's more rural so it'd be something along the lines ofhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ng3fG1u4Xg


I personally love how many accents the UK can shove in such a tiny area.
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Mitchverr
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Mitchverr » Wed 6 May 2015 23:55

Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:It's more rural so it'd be something along the lines ofhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ng3fG1u4Xg


I personally love how many accents the UK can shove in such a tiny area.


I still dont understand how people cant understand Mr Webley.
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Kraxis » Thu 7 May 2015 00:21

Mitchverr wrote:What happened to top 4 employers in the region with NO attempt to rectify the situation beyond "meh".

Mining industry - gone because short term profit, doesnt attempt to properly even sell off to private groups just gone.
Fishing industry - Common Fisheries Policy 1983, guess what happened to the vibrant fishing industry in the north east, (i will give you a hint, the fishing fleet is a tiny bit of what it once was and the "fish and chips" in what were my local pubs and chippies often came from the north sea not to far away where we once fished, but was caught by spanish or dutch or even italian ships sometimes, taken all the way back to their countries then sold to us, again, no attempt to rectify the massive damage to the local economy)
Military - a massive proportion of the armed forces has always been recruited from the North, cut the military spending, collapsed (its why a large amount of the army was in fact based in the north of England iirc out of her time, to give some boon to the economy and to help those who served be "close to home")
Steel - went the same way as the mining industry, her government loosened the binding of contracts, the recent tories destroyed it, foreign companies could just ignore what contracts said, take things and leave.

While I can understand the resentment, and I don't really have an opinion on Thatcher's internal politics. I would like a clarification for a poor non-islander that is so different that it has come full circle and is actually fairly similar.

Anyway.
As far I have understood the British coal mining was on the way out already. It was running at a deficit, and in the previous 20 years had gone from about 700.000 employees to 200.000 around 1980. So, didn't she just take the coal mining off life support? It should be telling that private companies weren't too happy to jump in afterwards and produced ever less. Britain has plenty coal remaining, but few if any new mines were opened up.
Or have I misunderstood the situation completely?

Wasn't it much the same with the fishing? The North Sea was pretty much fished bare leading up to the 80s. There would probably not have been much left regardless. This isn't a British problem, it is a world problem really. We had depleted the local fisheries and to go fishing in the deep Atlantic requires significant investment, and much less crew. Hence no matter how you cut it, the fishermen were going away, Thatcher or no Thatcher. I'm sure a larger portion of your local fish 'n chips would be 'local' fish than now, but to pin this entirely on her does seem fair. We have seen the exact same thing in Denmark, only we had no 'evil politicians' kill the industry. At most they have imposed quotas, which I think everyone has for the North Sea.

Military is on her as far as I understand. It is pretty much always the incumbent government that is responsible for significant growth or decline in the military.

I don't know as much about the steel industry, but I do know the steel mills were running at a deficit. Arguably it wasn't going to become better for some time yet (incidentally it would become better, as the recent upsurge has proven, with improved and less manpower intensive methods). I agree that on top of the coal mining cut, it was harsh.
In my opinion, what should have been done, rather than closing the mills down, was to explore the capacity for upgrades. It would have cost workplaces, but it would have retained some, and would have retained an industry in an already hit area. I have a strong feeling this one, at least, was done if not out of spite, then for political reasons rather than economic. The British Steel mills were inefficient compared to what they could have been. The solution to that isn't closing them, but upgrading them. The production numbers, unlike the coal, appears to have been fairly static.
[EUG]MadMat wrote:MadMat says so many things ... :twisted:

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Mitchverr
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Mitchverr » Thu 7 May 2015 00:35

The coal mining, yes, it was going down, however what she could have done was instead work on shifting to other mining materials (theres alot still to mine which is being looked into right now for example) from rare metals to lead to pot ash and so on, arguably though expencive this could have sustained the region and produced a long term investment which is currently being developed (though the current government has denied multiple permits). for example just outside of my home town theres a mine that was set to go ahead and open up, they built it, had everything ready, would have brought in a couple thousand jobs to the region (it easily would turn the unemployment in the region down significantly) and then suddenly, "nope not allowed to mine no reason given" :lol:

Actually much of the fishing it bare in the 80s came from european overfishing the region exactly when the government gave fishing rights up from exclusive british waters as before then there was alot less boats fishing as they came only from the north east not the entirety of europe. Though there arguably was issues, if the waters were given protection and kept under british control its suggested that there wouldnt be the cod becoming extinct in the next few years.

And agreed, upgrades could have helped save the industry and make them economic (in fact many of the private systems did that but sadly they went to the mainland like to Italy with all their kit breaking contracts with no punishment or any form of controls). Out of spite is also something that could have happened, she knew she was hated by the north, it was obvious, whom does she hit to save cash for "trickle down" those in the south who like her, or those who wont vote for her anyway.

Right now the region is heavily sustained by tourism really, which although high isnt high enough, though thanks to the Labour party we did get cash support in the 2000s to help improve the region.

But yeah at the time the most bought car in the north which near all owned was the reliant robin, because it didnt require you to have a full drivers licence or pay car tax but have it down under motorcycles.

So how rich can 1 say a people are using

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