2015 General Election

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Gorganhound
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Gorganhound » Fri 8 May 2015 15:06

Mitch im not saying it shouldnt be changed, I just dont think it will, people don't like change.

*shrugs*
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LoneRifle
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby LoneRifle » Fri 8 May 2015 15:18

Gronank wrote:
Mitchverr wrote:3. The EU might actually pay attention to the complaints the UK raised before it leaves, such as the big complaint of an arguably unelected official for the top job of the EU government and multiple other highly important roles not being voted on by the people

Here is the thing, the EU can't have a directly democratically accountable executive branch because it isn't allowed to have it's own executive authority. The authority of the EU president does not come from the people but from the member states governments in multilateral agreement. If you want the president of the EU to be directly accountable to you, you also, by necessity, do not want the president of the EU to be accountable to the member-states governments.

I agree that the EU executive branch should be democratically accountable, but you must understand that this necessarily means federalism.


Sounds like the Articles of Confederation lol. Only way to fix it IS to unify Europe under one country..... which I doubt can happen. Otherwise it will break apart eventually.
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Gronank » Fri 8 May 2015 15:34

Mitchverr wrote:1 can hope, a big thing in the past was "hurr bnp get seat durr" which isnt a valid argument amongst other things.

Apart from the anti-democratic sentiment, that doesn't even make any sense. FPTP alternatives such as the single transferable vote will only benefit parties that isn't actively despised by more than half of the constituency. I would say that STV would make it even harder for BNP than under FPTP. Imagine that BNP gets 25% of the vote in one constituency, they'd win the seat if the 3-5 other parties gets less than that. Under STV, the other 75% can simply declare that they prefer anything but the BNP and the BNP is out.

The real winners with the STV are parties with very close neighbors on the political spectrum, I don't think you can count the BNP amongst them.
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DoktorvonWer
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby DoktorvonWer » Fri 8 May 2015 15:41

GBNATO wrote:
DoktorvonWer wrote:Am I 'Yorkshire Ball' now, GBNATO? I HAVE A NAME AND FEELINGS :cry:

All I'm going to say is that I'm relieved and amazingly excited about this shock outcome.


Sorry mate, I was insensitive, I see that now. I shouldn't make jokes, we are of the same clay :cry:

Also, did you say you were excited and relieved about Tory majority government? :shock: Is that even legal where you come from?


Here's a picture of me in my local area to prove it:

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I've always been Tory, with UKIP-appreciating sentiments.

Mitchverr wrote:
GBNATO wrote:
DoktorvonWer wrote:Am I 'Yorkshire Ball' now, GBNATO? I HAVE A NAME AND FEELINGS :cry:

All I'm going to say is that I'm relieved and amazingly excited about this shock outcome.


Sorry mate, I was insensitive, I see that now. I shouldn't make jokes, we are of the same clay :cry:

Also, did you say you were excited and relieved about Tory majority government? :shock: Is that even legal where you come from?


Yorkshire is pretty tory country to be fair due to how the regions been split up for fptp systems (ie each poor labour region is buddied up with toff towns to secure victory, lol), which is why the tories are so iffy about changing us to a better system (aka that 1 used in the EU).


Actually, the dense city regions tend to be over-represented usually favouring Labour I think, last time I checked.
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LoneRifle
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby LoneRifle » Fri 8 May 2015 15:49

Why is there a 20 year old elected to Parliament.
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Kraxis
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Kraxis » Fri 8 May 2015 15:50

Removal of FPTP also removes Gerrymandering to a great extent. And let's be honest, Gerrymandering is a blight upon democracy.
[EUG]MadMat wrote:MadMat says so many things ... :twisted:

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GBNATO
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby GBNATO » Fri 8 May 2015 15:54

LoneRifle wrote:Why is there a 20 year old elected to Parliament.


Because Scotland.
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Mitchverr
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Mitchverr » Fri 8 May 2015 15:55

LoneRifle wrote:Why is there a 20 year old elected to Parliament.


Because SNP silly sods. :lol: They elected somebody who said they wanted to physicially assault the opposition and that people voting to stay in the union are selfish.... for using their democratic right.

DoktorvonWer wrote:Actually, the dense city regions tend to be over-represented usually favouring Labour I think, last time I checked.


Though some areas are better then others, theres still issues, for example labour lost in my hometown region by very little, still our 2 MPs will both be tory, if we had any other system chances are we would have had 1 labour at least(over last elections i mean with the vast majority outside 1 town voting labour and the town voting tory outdoing them all in the entire region when they arguably should be paired with another town that votes like they do).
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Gronank
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Gronank » Fri 8 May 2015 16:43

Gronank wrote:
Mitchverr wrote:3. The EU might actually pay attention to the complaints the UK raised before it leaves, such as the big complaint of an arguably unelected official for the top job of the EU government and multiple other highly important roles not being voted on by the people

Here is the thing, the EU can't have a directly democratically accountable executive branch because it isn't allowed to have it's own executive authority. The authority of the EU president does not come from the people but from the member states governments in multilateral agreement. If you want the president of the EU to be directly accountable to you, you also, by necessity, do not want the president of the EU to be accountable to the member-states governments.

I agree that the EU executive branch should be democratically accountable, but you must understand that this necessarily means federalism.

Actually, scratch that. That is how it was. Since 2009 when the Lisbon Treaty went into effect, the president of the European commission is appointed by the European parliament, in effect being a prime minister of sorts.

Of course, there is the problem that when you cast your vote for a party in the European parliament, you don't actually know what candidate they support for the presidency, I don't even think that the parties themselves know because the sort of candidates that appear for that position only gets really known midway through the appointment process.

But that is not a democracy problem but one with political culture. There is nothing that prevents that the hopefuls for the presidency makes themselves the candidates of the different voting blocs in the European parliament before the election.

One odd thing is that Juncker was elected by secret ballot in the parliament, which I think is not so good from an accountability perspective. I think it should simply be required by a candidate seeking a seat EP to state who they support for the presidency. It is not like you expect any less from a candidate for any other European parliament.
We've only seen one election under this treaty so this might happen in the future, but it is a possibility that the president of the commission simply isn't influential enough for anyone to really care.
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Gorganhound
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Re: 2015 General Election

Postby Gorganhound » Fri 8 May 2015 17:23

LoneRifle wrote:Why is there a 20 year old elected to Parliament.

Scotland, nuff said
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