Better cooperation with EU armies

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SpeisCheese
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Better cooperation with EU armies

Postby SpeisCheese » Thu 7 May 2015 15:00

http://www.lessentiel.lu/fr/news/luxembourg/story/L-UE-est-moins-combative-qu-une-horde-de-poules--28490962
Sorry, I didn't found it in English.

But I'll translate some parts.
Jean Claude Juncker clearly said that an horde of chickesns can fight better than EU armies nowadays.
What he wants is a much better cooperation between EU members. He wants to show how the EU can be serious when they want to protect their Union.
etc etc

Do you think this will work as planned?

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Re: Better cooperation with EU armies

Postby Nequit » Thu 7 May 2015 15:01

No

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Re: Better cooperation with EU armies

Postby Mitchverr » Thu 7 May 2015 15:07

Nequit wrote:No


This for the most part.

Only the French and british (along with the low countries) will arguably be able to work together effectively i think, the rest will be all over the place, with the UK/Polish arguably being decent together without significant military spending and exercise running. I only mention the British-French/polish because those exercises at least seem to happen.
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Re: Better cooperation with EU armies

Postby SpeisCheese » Thu 7 May 2015 15:13

I'm not very optimistic either

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Re: Better cooperation with EU armies

Postby GBNATO » Thu 7 May 2015 15:15

Right now the most potent and realistic example of European defense cooperation is the Anglo-French 'Combined Joint Expeditionary Force'. These are really the only two nations that have a respectable capacity for force projection, any other EU cooperation would be pretty meaningless in the grand scale because no one else can shift any meaningful force around.

What needs to happen before anything else is increased defense budgets across the board. Besides EU cooperation is a bit redundant considering we have NATO.
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Re: Better cooperation with EU armies

Postby SpeisCheese » Thu 7 May 2015 15:20

GBNATO wrote:Right now the most potent and realistic example of European defense cooperation is the Anglo-French 'Combined Joint Expeditionary Force'. These are really the only two nations that have a respectable capacity for force projection, any other EU cooperation would be pretty meaningless in the grand scale because no one else can shift any meaningful force around.

What needs to happen before anything else is increased defense budgets across the board. Besides EU cooperation is a bit redundant considering we have NATO.

You can increase budget, but manpower is also needed, mostly to maintain your army(like the Bundeswher which doesn't just need money but also more qualified engineers). Then there are many other reasons naturally :roll:

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Re: Better cooperation with EU armies

Postby Sleksa » Thu 7 May 2015 15:30

GBNATO wrote:Right now the most potent and realistic example of European defense cooperation is the Anglo-French 'Combined Joint Expeditionary Force'. These are really the only two nations that have a respectable capacity for force projection, any other EU cooperation would be pretty meaningless in the grand scale because no one else can shift any meaningful force around.


There are also a great deal of nations in EU that do not want to put their soldiers on foreign soil for a number of reasons, so 'force projection' is a waste of resources

Then there's the matter that a large number of nations don't have any sort of credible military in the first place to detach units from, and on top of that there's the problem of asking which EU country's agenda the joint forces would try to actively strive for. I can bet you a shiny nickel that the Germans don't want to see their troops dying in France's colonial adventures, and likewise France has no interest to pump naval assets to the baltic sea to help out Estonia, when they could be making billions by selling arms to the friendly green visitors of the people's republic of baltics
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Re: Better cooperation with EU armies

Postby SpeisCheese » Thu 7 May 2015 15:38

Sleksa wrote:
GBNATO wrote:Right now the most potent and realistic example of European defense cooperation is the Anglo-French 'Combined Joint Expeditionary Force'. These are really the only two nations that have a respectable capacity for force projection, any other EU cooperation would be pretty meaningless in the grand scale because no one else can shift any meaningful force around.


There are also a great deal of nations in EU that do not want to put their soldiers on foreign soil for a number of reasons, so 'force projection' is a waste of resources

Then there's the matter that a large number of nations don't have any sort of credible military in the first place to detach units from, and on top of that there's the problem of asking which EU country's agenda the joint forces would try to actively strive for. I can bet you a shiny nickel that the Germans don't want to see their troops dying in France's colonial adventures, and likewise France has no interest to pump naval assets to the baltic sea to help out Estonia, when they could be making billions by selling arms to the friendly green visitors of the people's republic of baltics

The article never said that these armies would be used outside of the EU. These cooperation are meant to defend the EU, it has nothing to do with operations like in Mali where French troops are fighting. But if it comes to defend your Union, it is already something different. But their plans won't work until we get some really motvated politicians. Also the economic crisis doesn't help other EU countries when it comes to budget increase

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Re: Better cooperation with EU armies

Postby holoween » Thu 7 May 2015 16:00

are you guys not seing germanys effots to actually make a european army happen?

firstly we go to great lengths to make sure that when we develop new equipment that we it be multinational which for all the trouble those programms do have serve the important purpose to unify equippment. i personlaay wouldnt even be surprised if the recent reports over issues over the g36 were brought up only because france is serching for a replacement for the famas and there may be hope we could end up with the same rifle.

secondly we have several bilateral agreements to place our troops under foreign command and theirs under our command which only really needs to be scaled up to form a european army.

thirdly the current bundeswehr organisation was explicitly build in a way that would allow smaller nations to integrate into the german command structure.

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Re: Better cooperation with EU armies

Postby Vulcan 607 » Thu 7 May 2015 16:01

It will face the same problems as the forces of the UN with nations saying you can use my troops but only under certain circumstances or they will withdraw their troops with no warning.

While a multinational defence force sounds like a good idea it will only work so long as the host nation's are willing the more nations you have the more risk of someone screwing it up.

Honestly a joint Anglo French Polish force would be an effective deterrent and a lethal fighting force. Germany sadly has a long way to go politically and militarily before it can be considered an effective force.

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