Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

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Oliver
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Re: Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

Postby Oliver » Mon 18 May 2015 14:33

For example, in the US, you got this pledge of allegiance which is creepy as all hell. If that pledge is understood, it's either pointless or not worthy of allegiance. It is simply a tool to encourage patriotism, not on patriotism's own merit, but based on social pressure.


That's not only creepy, but also weird as hell to watch. I think my school didn't even own a flag.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

Postby Mike » Mon 18 May 2015 14:39

Oliver wrote:
For example, in the US, you got this pledge of allegiance which is creepy as all hell. If that pledge is understood, it's either pointless or not worthy of allegiance. It is simply a tool to encourage patriotism, not on patriotism's own merit, but based on social pressure.


That's not only creepy, but also weird as hell to watch. I think my school didn't even own a flag.

My elementary school had a US and VA flag out front. Two kids put it up and another two took it down everyday.
Actually now that I think about it, I think every classroom had a flag in it so you could face it during the pledge of allegiance.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

Postby Iris » Mon 18 May 2015 15:08

Many people aren't aware of this.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

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Re: Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

Postby ReverendSpecialK » Mon 18 May 2015 15:14

Gronank wrote:
Bollywood Baloney wrote:Not to get overly philosophical, but every child is indoctrinated to some degree (whether by their parents or the public school system), so if you condemn it here, you should also look at it in other areas. Is teaching children about the merits of the US constitution not indoctrinating them to be American patriots?

There is a difference between teaching and indoctrination. Indoctrination imparts beliefs and teaching imparts understanding, the difference being that understanding are the justifications of the beliefs the students forms their own.

They may blur in practice but the intention is usually pretty clear, the only thing indoctrination teaches are the consequences of not playing along while someone teaching might take the simple way out of "just trust me on this".

For example, in the US, you got this pledge of allegiance which is creepy as all hell. If that pledge is understood, it's either pointless or not worthy of allegiance. It is simply a tool to encourage patriotism, not on patriotism's own merit, but based on social pressure.
I don't see how the American pledge of Allegiance is "creepy" as far as I know no one is forced to recite it, and pledging allegiance to one's country is neither uncommon or bad.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

Postby ReverendSpecialK » Mon 18 May 2015 15:15

Iris wrote:Many people aren't aware of this.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

I was reading about that the other week funnily enough.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

Postby Vulcan 607 » Mon 18 May 2015 15:19

I do like it when people in the middle east get upset and start burning flags and they think people actually care.

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Re: Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

Postby Mike » Mon 18 May 2015 15:28

ReverendSpecialK wrote:
Iris wrote:Many people aren't aware of this.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

I was reading about that the other week funnily enough.

Who did it better? Hitler or the school children?
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Re: Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

Postby Oliver » Mon 18 May 2015 15:38

ReverendSpecialK wrote:I don't see how the American pledge of Allegiance is "creepy" as far as I know no one is forced to recite it, and pledging allegiance to one's country is neither uncommon or bad.


Maybe not forced by law, but the social pressure is definitely there. And yes, pledging allegiance and saluting to your flag is very uncommon internationally when talking about schooltime activities.

You wanna get nationalists? That's how you get nationalists!
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Re: Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

Postby ReverendSpecialK » Mon 18 May 2015 15:48

Oliver wrote:
ReverendSpecialK wrote:I don't see how the American pledge of Allegiance is "creepy" as far as I know no one is forced to recite it, and pledging allegiance to one's country is neither uncommon or bad.


Maybe not forced by law, but the social pressure is definitely there. And yes, pledging allegiance and saluting to your flag is very uncommon internationally when talking about schooltime activities.

You wanna get nationalists? That's how you get nationalists!

Having had first hand experience in American schools I know for a fact that very few people recite it. Mainly the instructor and a few students many students just stand and whisper to each other. Also I don't see a problem with nationalism. I do see a problem with globalism though.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the mighty USA ...

Postby Gronank » Mon 18 May 2015 16:03

Iris wrote:Many people aren't aware of this.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

It is almost similar to how the toothbrush mustache strangely and suddenly went out of fashion half way through the last century. Only almost similar because the purpose of a salute like that is the same as the one they wanted to disassociate themselves from, to create a ritual where the individual signals membership to a group.

The toothbrush mustache is just a mustache.
ReverendSpecialK wrote:I don't see how the American pledge of Allegiance is "creepy" as far as I know no one is forced to recite it, and pledging allegiance to one's country is neither uncommon or bad.

Perhaps not uncommon but definitely creepy. Allegiance is not something countries can ask for or demand but something they must show themselves worthy of. If a country is worthy, why have a pledge of allegiance when allegiance is obvious?
ReverendSpecialK wrote:Also I don't see a problem with nationalism
We in Europe tried nationalism for about 150 years starting in the late 18th century. It was a wild ride from start but it ended up making everyone kind of sad so we mostly stopped.
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