Charleston Church Shooting.

User avatar
Mike
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 12409
Joined: Thu 20 Feb 2014 01:09
Location: Virginia, United States of America
Contact:

Re: Charleston Church Shooting.

Postby Mike » Thu 25 Jun 2015 04:33

LoneRifle wrote:Doesn't surprise me sadly. Deleting history is so much easier then comprehending it. I'm sorely tempted to go buy a flag from somewhere before they become banned, just so I can have one safely tucked away before they all get destroyed.

Sales have gone through the roof because all the flak the battle flag has been catching. My dad has been wanting to get a Sons of Confederate Veterans license plate (I know I had at least two great great grandfathers fight in the Confederate Armed Forces) but he doesn't wanna waste his time if they are going to ban them.
Image
Courtesy of KattiValk

User avatar
Bullfrog
General
Posts: 5308
Joined: Sat 11 Aug 2012 23:48
Contact:

Re: Charleston Church Shooting.

Postby Bullfrog » Thu 25 Jun 2015 04:35

Mike wrote:
@Portsmouth
That is absolutely ridiculous and it frankly pisses me off a little bit. It's a moment to those who fought in the Civil War. And I read article on what he said. Wow. I didn't know looking a monument to the Confederate Armed Forces turned me into a clan member. It's just a piece of history. It's something you teach and learn from. I'm sorry to break the news to him, but Virginia was part of the CSA and a large amount of battles were fought in the state. Lee wouldn't fight for the USA purely because he couldn't go against Virginia. It's an important part of US and Virginian history.


I agree.

Like it or not, it is part of our history, culture. I'm not a supporter of the confederates but the I still believe those miss guided Americans life are worth remembering. This isn't some monument meant for propaganda to recruit people in to some supremacist group. As it says in the monument "To our confederate dead".

That's all there is too it.

Mike wrote:Sales have gone through the roof because all the flak the battle flag has been catching. My dad has been wanting to get a Sons of Confederate Veterans license plate (I know I had at least two great great grandfathers fight in the Confederate Armed Forces) but he doesn't wanna waste his time if they are going to ban them.


My dad is in the sons of confederate veterans, I'm not sure the details outside that I had a relative that was in a Tennessee Cavalry unit
Does not affiliate with members who post in #MakeAmericaGreatAgain
Image

User avatar
Mike
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 12409
Joined: Thu 20 Feb 2014 01:09
Location: Virginia, United States of America
Contact:

Re: Charleston Church Shooting.

Postby Mike » Thu 25 Jun 2015 05:46

Bullfrog wrote:I agree.

Like it or not, it is part of our history, culture. I'm not a supporter of the confederates but the I still believe those miss guided Americans life are worth remembering. This isn't some monument meant for propaganda to recruit people in to some supremacist group. As it says in the monument "To our confederate dead".

That's all there is too it.


You can't just skip over the dealiest war in American history. There are some elements of the war that aren't good, (slavery obviously) but you can't just destroy the things you don't like. And if you don't like it that much, well go to North Dakota were nothing relates to the Civil War.

Bullfrog wrote:My dad is in the sons of confederate veterans, I'm not sure the details outside that I had a relative that was in a Tennessee Cavalry unit

I know one of mine served in a unit out of Franklin and the unit was in the defense of Forts in the Outer Banks and of Lynchburg. I also remember googling my name and a Major General came up under my last name as a Confederate general and US congressman. :shock:
Image
Courtesy of KattiValk

User avatar
Mike
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 12409
Joined: Thu 20 Feb 2014 01:09
Location: Virginia, United States of America
Contact:

Re: Charleston Church Shooting.

Postby Mike » Thu 25 Jun 2015 06:14

You know what's the worst part about it all now though? It's about 150 year old flag now instead of the 9 people that were murdered. Push that agenda media.
Image
Courtesy of KattiValk

Iris
Brigadier
Posts: 3422
Joined: Tue 14 May 2013 00:41

Re: Charleston Church Shooting.

Postby Iris » Thu 25 Jun 2015 08:58

The Confederate flag in its original inception had no racial undertones, and if there are people in the United States that wanna walk around screaming Southern pride over a pretty nice looking flag without lynching black folk, burning down their churches, and enslaving / oppressing them....then why in the hell does anybody care whether the jolly old redneck has a Confederate flag on his porch?


The Iron Cross / Eisernes Kreuz and Balkan Cross / Balkenkreuz are still used by skinheads, white supremacists, anti-semites, etc. As are many other pieces of German history. I have never seen anybody claim that the Iron Cross or Balkan Cross are racist symbols, and in fact, they're very popular symbols to this day. The Confederate Flag is used by racists and has been used by racists, but the official United States flag has been used by racists since it's inception.

Mad22
Lieutenant
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed 8 May 2013 14:45
Location: The sulaco
Contact:

Re: Charleston Church Shooting.

Postby Mad22 » Thu 25 Jun 2015 11:40

Warner brothers have now taken the Dukes of hazard toy car off sale. Too far man too far.

I am generally left leaning I can't deny that but this all isn't necessary. To not repeat the mistakes of the past we need to keep history close.
Remove the flag from state property. That's fine but to ban its sale is ridiculous.

How else do we identify rednecks?
Image
HOT SHOTS IS MORE REALISTIC THAN TOP GUN. whats that about?

User avatar
Mike
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 12409
Joined: Thu 20 Feb 2014 01:09
Location: Virginia, United States of America
Contact:

Re: Charleston Church Shooting.

Postby Mike » Thu 25 Jun 2015 13:39

Mad22 wrote:Warner brothers have now taken the Dukes of hazard toy car off sale. Too far man too far.

I am generally left leaning I can't deny that but this all isn't necessary. To not repeat the mistakes of the past we need to keep history close.
Remove the flag from state property. That's fine but to ban its sale is ridiculous.

How else do we identify rednecks?


Jacked up trucks.
Image
Courtesy of KattiValk

User avatar
Mitchverr
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 10646
Joined: Sat 24 Mar 2012 18:08
Contact:

Re: Charleston Church Shooting.

Postby Mitchverr » Thu 25 Jun 2015 13:54

Bullfrog wrote:I've always been skeptical of drugs. I've been threw depression but I pushed threw it, maybe some people need it live day to day but I don't think drugs are reliable solution for a lot of problems that they are being applied too. My mother is a pharmacist and she's always going on about all the crazy drugs they're giving out today. How some of isn't properly tested and such. And I've been miss diagnosed before by doctors and was almost put on adderall.

If some people need it, that's fine.. but it should be better managed IMO.


That comes more down to where you live and how good or bad your doctor is.

Glad you pushed through depression btw :)

Alot of people actually need it to live day to day, i know several who did/do. Drugs are not a reliable solution as any good doctor will tell you, they can help most people to not go out and do something stupid under a manic episode, but they are not for everyone which is why they always try to give people the correct type/amount and require the patient to be 100% honest with them. They should always also be going for a weekly checkup to make sure they are okay and be seeing a therapist of some sort weekly also (its a 1-2 combo).

As for testing, again depends where you live, i live in the UK thankfully where they dont risk patients when it comes to this due to significant scandel decades ago.

And yeah, the worst bit is misdiagnosis, thats the real problem when it comes to giving people drugs(again thankyou NHS and your attempts to cut costs by actually not doing this as much as some countries where money makes them want to misdiagnose), not so much the drugs themselves in most instances(i have been given a fair few extreme drugs over time, they helped, alot).


Sadly these are extreme drugs, but some people are in an extreme position biologically or mentally speaking as to require them, those going about saying you dont need those, just drink this diluted X 10x1500 are what cause much more problems(its the same level as vaccines are harmful).
Image

User avatar
[EUG]MadMat
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 15499
Joined: Thu 30 Jun 2011 13:31
Location: Paris, France.
Contact:

Re: Charleston Church Shooting.

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Thu 25 Jun 2015 16:35

Iris wrote:The Confederate flag in its original inception had no racial undertones, and if there are people in the United States that wanna walk around screaming Southern pride over a pretty nice looking flag without lynching black folk, burning down their churches, and enslaving / oppressing them....then why in the hell does anybody care whether the jolly old redneck has a Confederate flag on his porch?

The Iron Cross / Eisernes Kreuz and Balkan Cross / Balkenkreuz are still used by skinheads, white supremacists, anti-semites, etc. As are many other pieces of German history. I have never seen anybody claim that the Iron Cross or Balkan Cross are racist symbols, and in fact, they're very popular symbols to this day. The Confederate Flag is used by racists and has been used by racists, but the official United States flag has been used by racists since it's inception.

Being a military History buff and one of the few Europeans whom visited the Gettysburg battlefield twice (and whom brought a Dixie flag as a souvenir ;) ), I do understand people being mad about the treatment given to the CSA flag.
Yet, there are some differences here with the Balkenkreuz.

The Dixie flag, like the nazi svaztika, are symbols impossible to dissociate with the short-lived States they represented: the CSA and the Third Reich. They represent those States, and both those States are (for more or less accurate reasons for the Confederacy) symbols of horrors mankind can inflict to his own.

On the other hand, the Balkenkreuz or cross pattée has its root back in the Teutonic Order, then the German Campaign of 1813 (which, depending of where you live, might be called Befreiungskriege to some of you ;) ). And in its exact same shape as WW2, was already the symbol of the Red Baron in WW1.
The Wehrmacht used, and somehow soiled, an existing symbol. The Dixie flag & swaztika were designs made purposedly for the States they became the symbols of.

Now, if you really want to prohibit symbols too reminiscent of the Third Reich in Germany, I would suggest one to leave the Balkenkreutz/cross pattéee where it belong on German Panzers & planes, and start removing that:
Image
Night torch march!
Black uniforms!!
Stalhelm!!!
Armband!!!!
--> all things screaming SS to ... well everybody I guess.

That said, I find it funny how the USA are campaigning against that poor old Dixie flag as the source of all evil, because it appears on the pictures postes by the killer. Am I the only one out here spotting that, on most of them, he also had ... a gun!
All things considered, to avoid a further killing spree, wouldn't it be wiser to ban the gun instead of the flag? I mean, removing the flag will leave the next killer with less inspiration maybe, but still the tools to perform his massacre. While, if the guns were removed, the would-be killer will have a harder job killing people with a flag on a pole. Besides, it would give him away from afar ...

User avatar
Mitchverr
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 10646
Joined: Sat 24 Mar 2012 18:08
Contact:

Re: Charleston Church Shooting.

Postby Mitchverr » Thu 25 Jun 2015 16:42

Banning the flag is more likely to cause a shooting i would suspect simply because they would be going "muh freedom" and "the liberals are to damn high" etc, no?
Image

Return to “Off-Topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Shifu and 17 guests