US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

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wargamer1985
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US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

Postby wargamer1985 » Mon 19 Oct 2015 01:45

Greetings and salutations everyone! Today I wish to talk about changes to the US and USSR line of infantry for a future Wargame (primarily because Eugen specifically stated no new units or rerolls). These changes cover attempt to give life to the lineup of these two nations which has been quite poor throughout Red Dragon. Remember, these changes are for the possibility of a future Wargame (unless Eugen decides to release a new DLC, which is unlikely).

USSR:
In ALB the USSR had a decent infantry line-up, with arguably the best line infantry in the game, the omnipotent Spetznaz and the awesome VDV. In RD however, Motostrelki got hit hard with the PKM Nerfs, and the USSR's primary 15-man squad is quite poor in comparison to other Marine squads. Furthermore the Metis-M got hit with some Nerfs leaving the USSR's light infantry squad overpriced.
Motostrelki:
RPG-7 > RPG-7V
Motostrelki '90:
PKM > RPK-74
Give availability to the BTR-T
VDV:
Good as they are
VDV '90:
Also pretty good, although their transports could use some price buffs/availability buffs
Spetnaz:
Leave as they are
*NEW UNIT* Spetnaz '90:
Replace RPO > RPG-7VR, then players can choose between a dedicated Anti-Infantry squad or a more all-rounded choice
Morskaya Pekhota:
RPG-7 > RPG-7V
Morskaya Pekhota '90:
RPG-7V > RPG-26
Price: 25 > 30
Gornostrelki:
Metis Range: 1500m > 1750m
Price: 25 > 20
Gornostrelki '90:
PKM > RPK-74
Metis-M Range: 1500m > 1750m

*USSR General*:
- Allow Airborne Infantry to come in the Mi-24P
- Buff the 2A42 accuracy on BMPs to 30% and give the 2A42 1750m range
- Remove BTR-60PB's KPVT and replace it with a HMG and then reduce it's price to 10 points
- Give the RPG-7VR 700m range
- Buff PKM ROF
- Put ATGM-less BMP-1 at 10 points, buff Grom to 35% accuracy and give the Malyutka BMP-1 the same Grom buffs and 15 AP to the Malyutka
- Fix the Mi-8/Mi-24s landing speed

USA:
In ALB the USA had the GLORIOUS M60 Men, who were the best (or nearly the best) anti-infantry line troops in the game, the Delta Force also had a distinct niche of being the best anti-infantry troops at range, able to out gun even Spetnaz if it managed to keep them at range. The Marines were also amazing, coming in the LAV-25 they provided a force to be reckoned with (before the LAV was unnecessarily Nerfed into the ground). In RD the Delta Force once again have suffered from Delta Force syndrome and the Riflemen are simply "meh". Light Riflemen are overpriced and Mountaineers were removed.
Riflemen:
They are ok, but could the M60 should get a buff to 45% accuracy
Riflemen '90:
M60 > M249 SAW (Minimi) CQC
Rangers:
M240 > M60E3 (M240 wasn't available for the infantry until well into the 1980s)
*NEW UNIT* Ranger '90:
Carl Gustav M2 > AT4 or Carl Gustav M3
M240 > M249 (Minimi) CQC
(in the infantry tab as US 20 point shock troopers)
Delta Force:
M72 LAW > Carl Gustav M2
*NEW UNIT* Delta Force '90:
MP5SD > M4 SOPMOD (Basically a AKS-74U with 50% accuracy)
M72 LAW > AT4
M60E3 > M249 (Minimi) CQC
Price: 35
Give both Delta Force access to the UH-60A
Navy SEALs:
AKM > M-16/ M727 Carbine
MM1 40mm > M79 40mm "China Lake"
(The China Lake would have half the ROF of the MM1, but would have 2 HE instead of 1 HE, this would make the SEALs a cross between the Polish Formaza and Spetnaz)
Marines:
Pretty good, but maybe a small ROF buff to the Colt LMG?
Marines '90:
AT4 > SMAW
(21 AP, 70% accuracy, 875m range, 10 ROF)
Also, give Marines their bloody LAV-25
Light Riflemen:
Actually pretty good, but give their Dragon a modest +5% accuracy buff
Light Riflemen '90:
M60 > M249 (Minimi) CQC
Price: 25 > 20 (remember, this is paying 20 points for a Regular squad, so it shouldn't be OP)
*NEW UNIT* Mountaineers:
Remember the Mountaineers? IMHO They were amazing, being very cost-effective and having good availability and able to deter enemies. I wish they never had to become Cav Scouts
STATS:
M16
Dragon II
M60E3
Training: SHOCK
Transports: CH-47, UH-1H, UH-60A, M113A1, M113A3, M113A1 Dragon, M113A3 Super Dragon
Price: 30

*USA General*:
- Return LAV to Marines and give it Modern Bushmaster and 2/2/1/1 Armor
- Take off the CH-46's availability Nerf
- Return the UH-1E back! (US Rocket transport helo FTW)
- Give all Dragon squads access to the Dragon M113s
- Give the M2A1 the TOW-2 (it was intended to use the TOW-2 from the beginning)
- Give the Bushmaster a longer burst per reload
- Reroll the recon Humvees into transports (along with a necessary M134 buff)
-Fix the CH-47's landing speed
- Make the M727 Carbine an actual carbine. Make the M727 a AKS-74U clone.

These are my changes that I would like to see happen, now keep in mind that this doesn't mean that other nations need infantry buffs as well, but rather that I am not as aware at other nations infantry issues, so if you have issues that you would like to address, please share it.
Last edited by wargamer1985 on Tue 20 Oct 2015 01:07, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

Postby JBravo » Mon 19 Oct 2015 02:56

I like it all. Almost certainly won't happen, especially the Delta Force buff... but I still like it.
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Re: US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

Postby another505 » Mon 19 Oct 2015 03:11

remember mountaineers?
Of course i do, they were the most freaking annoying infantry in alb....

in rd... haha , they go switched the most useless cav scouts...


about USSR
I wish to see 10men shock recon infantry so that they can have better recon in more specialization
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Re: US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

Postby Nerdfish » Mon 19 Oct 2015 03:38

If WG 4 happens and pushes timeline forward, wouldn't USSR be replaced by Russian Federation ?
Also, the entire infantry combat system need to be revamped first.
There were many many posts on how wargame's simulation break down when it comes to infantry.

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Re: US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

Postby CrusaderVM » Mon 19 Oct 2015 05:22

Smart suggestions and all long overdue. Eugen insists that USA have no infantry advantage and USSR must straddle a line between useless line infantry and OP elites because of "flavor" rather than giving options.

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Re: US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

Postby Mike » Mon 19 Oct 2015 05:36

I'd use something more than just the RPG-29 for 90s USSR infantry. :lol:
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Re: US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

Postby alexsolid » Mon 19 Oct 2015 06:36

If cav scouts could be buffed to shock, and could ride bradleys, that'll help them to be useful

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Re: US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

Postby GARGEAN » Mon 19 Oct 2015 07:34

Mike wrote:I'd use something more than just the RPG-29 for 90s USSR infantry. :lol:

RPG-27. Vampyr's AP, 20 rof... And this is REAL thing instead of AT-12T.

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Re: US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

Postby raventhefuhrer » Mon 19 Oct 2015 07:48

Generally good ideas, but I'll give some critiques.

  • Motostrelki '90 probably shouldn't be able to come in BTR-T. It just promotes grenade launcher spam and lessens the importance of specialists like Sapery.
  • Unless I'm mistaken the RPG-7VR is already 50% accuracy, having been buffed. It's still not very good though...it has neither the range, nor the accuracy, nor the rate of fire to complement its high damage, and it needs at least two of those elements to be a good launcher. More important for Eastern Bloc infantry than USSR though.
  • I really like the Spetsnaz '90 idea, but it's probably unnecessary. In general I think there's too much emphasis on adding Vampyr to units in your ideas.
  • The problem with Morskaya is that if you give them a Vampyr you're essentially creating a mirror to the British infantry situation, where everyone takes Gurkhas over any possible alternative. This would be the same with USSR, with Morskaya and obvious choice over VDV. I'm not sure what you can do about it though, so the most perfect of the imperfect solutions is to leave Morskaya as a kind of infantry brawler shock squad that's not very good. But given the storied history of VDV and the USSR's dependence on them, I'd rather have the Morskaya be the less useful shock squad.
  • I agree with Gornostrelki buff because it also helps Eastern Block squads with the Metis.
  • I would be okay with airborne infantry coming in Mi-24D, but a P might be too much.

  • Generally agree on your infantry changes, particularly the Marines getting SMAW.
  • No reason to add Mountaineers, I'd rather see Light Riflemen given shock status (along with Strelcy Podhalancy and -maybe- Gornostrelki)
  • LAV buffs are great
  • In general helicopter availability and prices need to be looked at, so I agree with CH-46 stuff but would add Blackhawks and Hueys to that as well.
  • Humvee really need to either go down in price or gain 10 HP and armor. Although I'm more in favor of the former.
  • Reroll Super Hornet into USMC ASF (give up on naval Eugen) or else reroll Tomcat's loadout a little bit to be a USMC ASF.
  • Base-line M1 Abrams is stupidly awful, even for its tier. Wouldn't mind some buffs.
  • M1IP range increment increase to match K1 would be delicious
  • I'd like to see the Apache Longbow changed or nerfed and the regular Apache receive buffs, including a substantial price buff. The only really expensive helicopter that ever pays off in competitive gameplay is the Apache Longbow, and sometimes the Recon Tiger/Recon Akula.
  • To compensate for some of these buffs, reroll ATACMS back into some kind of generic MLRS rather than the point-click-remover it is right now. A well-used ATACMS is too frustrating to play against and is bad gameplay.

I guess that's all I can think of at 1 AM.
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Re: US/USSR Infantry Changes (Wargame 4)

Postby CornProducts » Mon 19 Oct 2015 08:22

I thought that transport pricing was the biggest issue. Like a ten point wheeled transport?
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